Latest Ukrainian Peace Plan From the US...Ukraine Surrenders, NATO Cannot Expand; Russia Gives Up Nothing.

[gipper]

Cautiously? Putin launched a full scale two-pronged invasion with the goal of conquering Ukraine and swallowing it into Russia.

It was only his and his generals' own ineptitude that it failed.

I'm getting light-headed from all the gaslighting here. Someone open a window and don't light a match!

Lol. If you don’t think Russia could have leveled Kiev like the Zionists did Gaza, you’re fooling yourself.

I’m not a supporter of Russia or Putin, but face facts. Russia went in cautiously because had they gone scorched earth as the US and Israelis fight wars, they would have had to fight the entire West directly.

Think!

 

[kyzr]

Putin knows Trump will not stand up to him

Trump put up a peace deal. If the EU wants Zelenskyy to get better terms, let them carry the ball and keep Ukraine's military funded. No problem. There is no standing up to Putin unless you want to see nukes flying. Trump put more sanctions on, that's all he can do without risking WW3.

I don't get reports out of Russia if the sanctions are working. Is Russia hurting, or can Putin keep the war pressure on Ukraine?

 

[Nostra]

The EU doesn't like it either. Fine, let them handle the war and peace. Trump has bigger fish to fry.

https://www.npr.org/2025/11/20/nx-s1-5615184/the-eu-indicates-it-wont-accept-the-u-s-s-russia-ukraine-peace-deal

Exactly.

Why should we care if the map of Ukraine changes a little? Maybe Biden shouldn’t have told Putin a little invasion was ok.

Can’t expect Trump to clean up every Tater clusterfuck 100%.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Why do you say that? If he doesn't want to give out military secrets that is a good thing.
I remember when we gave sophisticated equipment to Israel, and they sold it to China.

What? Your post is not related to mine. If the US doesn't permit continued support buyers will go elsewhere.

 

[kyzr]

What? Your post is not related to mine. If the US doesn't permit continued support buyers will go elsewhere.

I agree with that.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump put up a peace deal. If the EU wants Zelenskyy to get better terms, let them carry the ball and keep Ukraine's military funded. No problem. There is no standing up to Putin unless you want to see nukes flying. Trump put more sanctions on, that's all he can do without risking WW3.

I don't get reports out of Russia if the sanctions are working. Is Russia hurting, or can Putin keep the war pressure on Ukraine?

Putin knows better than to use nukes if he doesn’t get everything he wants.

Sanctions should remain in place as punishment for Russias invasion
There should be a price to pay

 

[kyzr]

Putin knows better than to use nukes if he doesn’t get everything he wants.

Lets hope so.

Sanctions should remain in place as punishment for Russias invasion
There should be a price to pay

Putin negotiated the sanctions off as part of the peace deal.
So Zelenskyy has until Thursday to accept Trump's 28-point peace deal, or, let the EU take over.
Even if Z says OK, Putin still might still say NO.

 

[Zavulon]

There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Hitler is dead 70 years. But there is a slaughter, we don't know yet if it will be "endless".

Of course there are Nazies (in Russian understanding of the word).

You hoping for more war or a peace deal?

What we need is safety and wealth. It definitely and reliabily can be achieved by the war (and total denazification of Ukraine, and, may be, Europe), or by peace deal on the acceptable terms (which means safery and wealth for Russians, both in Russian Federation and in other countries).
If the "leaked" terms are somehow true, they seems like something totally unacceptable, just a stupid attempt of Trump to trade something (ceasefire and survival of Ukrainian state, Kievan regime and Ukrainian militants) for nothing - vague promises and empty words.

 

[Zavulon]

Trump put up a peace deal. If the EU wants Zelenskyy to get better terms, let them carry the ball and keep Ukraine's military funded. No problem. There is no standing up to Putin unless you want to see nukes flying. Trump put more sanctions on, that's all he can do without risking WW3.

Actually, you are risking WW3 anyway. If Europe is winning conventionally, Russia won't alleviate. Russia will escalate.

 

[Eman623]

Lol. If you don’t think Russia could have leveled Kiev like the Zionists did Gaza, you’re fooling yourself.

I’m not a supporter of Russia or Putin, but face facts. Russia went in cautiously because had they gone scorched earth as the US and Israelis fight wars, they would have had to fight the entire West directly.

Think!

You think! The facts do not support your conclusions.

Russia's goal was conquest, not "cautious attack". They expected a quick 3-6 week operation after which Z would be dead or exiled and Ukraine would be formally annexed into a new Russian "union".

Russia did annex the eastern half the country they hold now. I see no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the entire place.

 

[gipper]

You think! The facts do not support your conclusions.

Russia's goal was conquest, not "cautious attack". They expected a quick 3-6 week operation after which Z would be dead or exiled and Ukraine would be formally annexed into a new Russian "union".

Russia did annex the eastern half the country they hold now. I see no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the entire place.

No
No
No

If Russia wanted conquest, why did they wait tens years before invading. THINK.

If they wanted all of Ukraine, why have they advanced so slowly. They could have leveled Kiev in the first week.

Think!

 

[Eman623]

No
No
No

Yes.

If Russia wanted conquest, why did they wait tens years before invading. THINK.

Because they were digesting the Crimea and didn't want to attack on Trump's watch.

If they wanted all of Ukraine, why have they advanced so slowly. They could have leveled Kiev in the first week.

Because the Russian army in 2022 was a pathetic shadow of its former self. The tanks broke down and were shot out by guerillas and the Ukranians were badasses who were fighting for freedom while the Russians were fighting for a paycheck.

Think!

I am. Try it.

 

[gipper]

Yes.

Because they were digesting the Crimea and didn't want to attack on Trump's watch.


Because the Russian army in 2022 was a pathetic shadow of its former self. The tanks broke down and were shot out by guerillas and the Ukranians were badasses who were fighting for freedom while the Russians were fighting for a paycheck.


I am. Try it.

Yeah it’s pathetic, but you think they want conquest.

 

[Eman623]

Yeah it’s pathetic, but you think they want conquest.

The want their empire back. At least Putin does.

Think!

 

[gipper]

The want their empire back. At least Putin does.

Think!

Yeah sure. LMFAO. You must watch a shit ton of corporate propaganda tv.

 

[rightwinger]

Lets hope so.

Putin negotiated the sanctions off as part of the peace deal.
So Zelenskyy has until Thursday to accept Trump's 28-point peace deal, or, let the EU take over.
Even if Z says OK, Putin still might still say NO.

Putin is giving up nothing and gaining territory without further fighting

Ukraine realizes that Russia never complied with its promises to respect borders

Trump is the new Neville Chamberlain

 

[Marener]

But when the Maidan Revolution happened Ukraine became democratic and independent of Russia, Putin saw NATO encroaching too close, so he invaded, primarily to keep NATO back, similar to the US keeping Russian nukes out of Cuba

We didn’t invade Cuba.

 

[kyzr]

Of course there are Nazies (in Russian understanding of the word).

Azov isn't Nazi, but whatever.

What we need is safety and wealth. It definitely and reliably can be achieved by the war (and total denazification of Ukraine, and, may be, Europe), or by peace deal on the acceptable terms (which means safery and wealth for Russians, both in Russian Federation and in other countries).
If the "leaked" terms are somehow true, they seems like something totally unacceptable, just a stupid attempt of Trump to trade something (ceasefire and survival of Ukrainian state, Kievan regime and Ukrainian militants) for nothing - vague promises and empty words.

Ukraine will survive. Russia lost a million casualties so far. For what? Not much territory.

Looks like the EU agrees with you about the Trump peace deal, no good. So they can support the war for a few more years.

Hope you don't have anyone in the Russian army. Haven't seen you here for a while. hope things are good.

 

[kyzr]

Actually, you are risking WW3 anyway. If Europe is winning conventionally, Russia won't alleviate. Russia will escalate.

We've had this discussion. Putin is 72, he isn't stupid, he knows no one wins a nuclear war.

 

[kyzr]

Putin is giving up nothing and gaining territory without further fighting

Putin is giving up Ukraine. I don't like that part of the deal either, I think that Z won't accept giving up defensible territory either.

Ukraine realizes that Russia never complied with its promises to respect borders

Yep, the Budapest Memorandum wasn't honored.
But Putin thought he could keep his guy in Kiev, but the Maidan Revolution changed things.

Trump is the new Neville Chamberlain

Nevil Chamberlain didn't matter. Hitler was going to invade Poland and France no matter what Nevile said.

The French and British armies got crushed.
Hitler fucked up letting 300,000 Brits escape from Dunkirk, or WW2 might have ended differently.