Latest Ukrainian Peace Plan From the US...Ukraine Surrenders, NATO Cannot Expand; Russia Gives Up Nothing.

[AntonToo]

No. It is absolutely defensive war for Russian Federation and Russian people. De facto, it is quite usual

You are completely fucked in the head, nobody wants anything to do with your backward nuke-paked swamp.

Why was stupid nonsense like this beat into your head? Because Putin needs you to support killing and wounding about 1000 Russian men every week to sustain a land grab invasion.

 

[Hollie]

You are completely fucked in the head, nobody wants anything to do with your backward nuke-paked swamp.

Why was stupid nonsense like this beat into your head? Because Putin needs you to support killing and wounding about 1000 Russian men every week to sustain a land grab invasion.

Yo forget to thank your incapacitated hero, ole’ Stumblebum who invited his buddy Putin to invade with a minor incursion allowance.

 

[Zavulon]

Everyone who doesn't like Russia is a Nazi? Ok.
That doesn't sound so bad.

In 1941 it didn't sound so bad for Germans, too.

How's Putin's 3 weeks to victory working out?

Who told you about 3 weeks to victory?
Previous time only counter-guerilla warfare in western Ukraine took more than 20 years and many thousands of casualties.
And before it there was regular war against western armies, that took 3 years and 7 million of killed in action (only in Ukraine).

It is a war against Pax Americana and it was highly unlikely that America can retreat without a war. Actually, I don't think that America will retreat without direct, large-scale nuclear war between Russian Federation and the USA.

So, all those peace proposals (from both sides) are nothing but "Good doggy" mumbling, while scratching a holster to pull out a gun.

 

[Zavulon]

You are completely fucked in the head, nobody wants anything to do with your backward nuke-paked swamp.

Obviouse lie. You always attack Russia and we always beat you. And, anyway, "decolonisation of Russia" (meaning genocide of Russian people) is officially declared goal of the EU.

Why was stupid nonsense like this beat into your head? Because Putin needs you to support killing and wounding about 1000 Russian men every week to sustain a land grab invasion.

Actually, it is vice versa. Putin, as a person and a rather pro-western politician is more interested in peace deals and controllable low-intensivity conflicts.
But, he is a good, realistically thinking politician. He, more or less, follows wishes of the people and keeping balance on the back of a bear.
I mean, however pro-Chinese is an American politician, he can't support genocide of English-speaking Canadians (decolonisation of Canada) or Canada's membership in Shanghai block. If he do so, American people won't see him as "pro-Chinese American politician". They'll see him as "a traitor of American people and an enemy of the USA".

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

AP Reporting:

Ukraine would cede territory to Russia in draft of Trump peace plan obtained by AP

President Donald Trump’s plan for ending the war in Ukraine would cede territory to Russia and limit the size of Kyiv’s military, according to a draft proposal obtained by The Associated Press.

apnews.com

Some highlights (or lowlights) from the article:

• For example, the proposal would not only bar Ukraine from joining NATO but would also prevent the alliance’s future expansion. Such a step would be a significant victory for Moscow, which views NATO as a threat.
• Putin would also gain ground he has been unable to win on the battlefield. Under the draft, Moscow would hold all the eastern Donbas region, even though approximately 14% still remains in Ukrainian hands. Ukraine’s military, currently at roughly 880,000 troops, would be reduced to 600,000.
• Under the proposal, Russia would commit to making no future attacks, something the White House views as a concession.
• Russia would also be allowed to keep half of the power generated by Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, Zaporizhzhia, which it captured from Ukraine early during the war.

There seems to be little in it for Ukraine or the US. One has to wonder on what planet such a plan ever saw the light of day.

Looks like your state department and c.I a war for democracy has been lost..

We told you russia's never giving back anything ...
You've embarrassed the nation

What else is new

 

[Zavulon]

Nobody but the gullible, ignorant Russian citizens that Putin lies to believe this. At least you're getting paid.

To believe what exactly? That the EU declared "decolonisation of Russia" as one of their official goals? Or that hired NATO mercenaries commited numerous acts of violence including demonstrative like Odessa massacre? Or that NATO countries themselves commited numerous acts of illegal and unprovoked agressions?

What obvious facts do you denie?

 

[Zavulon]

Actually 3-days

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/putin-thought-he-could-take-ukraine-in-three-days-leaked-emails-reveal/news-story/bf4de32af600b8b653069cdc34c174c8

Putin thought he could take Ukraine in three days, leaked emails reveal​

Obvious lie. Russia started this operation because of NATO's involvement. And it would be really overoptimistic to think that NATO will retreat without even an attempt to fight a proxy-war.

 

[Zavulon]

Z has until Thursday to give his official answer.
If its NO, then the war continues and the EU can support Ukraine.

If America declare neutrality, and the EU continue to fight, Russia eliminate French nuclear forces by one limited nuclear strike at very few targets and then suggest Europeans Russian peace plan with quite different terms. If EU refuse and retaliate - Russia destroy seven French cities for every Russian city and then suggest even worse terms (up to the choice between unconditional surrender and total elimination).

If its YES, then Trump presents the peace deal to Putin, and Putin says NO.

And Putin suggest to discuss details.

I saw a video clip of Putin saying "no deal" even though the deal was not sent to him officially.

It depends on the terms of deal. If it has some "NATO-like security guarantees", yes, it won't be acceptable.

So no progress in ending the Ukraine War.

Every killed Ukrainian Nazi is a progress in the ending of the war. In few more years we'll kill them all.

Putin is bogged down in Ukraine instead of developing AI like the rest of the advanced world is doing.

Actually, Russia is advancing in AI during Ukrainian war. You know, L.A., 2029, from Terminator movie is coming soon.

 

[Mac1958]

The "plan" is already going in the shitter.

The embarrassment continues.

 

[Rogue AI]

Putin was told they could take Kiev in 3-days.
3-years later and after a million casualties Russia has about 15% of Ukraine, a very stupid war.

That's nonsense. The push and quasi-seige on Kiev locked thousands of Ukrainian troops in the north away from Donbas. The Russian troops withdrew in an orderly fashion then redeployed in Donbas. The Ukrainians were forced to keep troops in the north or risk a repeat with little or no chance of relief if Russia returned to the north.

Taking Kiev was never in the plan. Russia has used the same strategy from day one, advance the line of the entire front. The only real aberration from the plan was Prigizhin's mad rush for Soledad. That foolishness didn't end well for him. The reality on the ground is a far cry from what the Western propaganda claims. That is particularly true of the silly casualty numbers attributed to Russia. All of which are simply rinse and repeat propaganda from Ukrainian 'intelligence'. The truth is Russian losses are a fraction of Ukrainian losses. There is also a lot of misinformation floating around. Initial losses attributed to Russia were in fact the Dobas militias, not the regular Russian army. In the first year regular Russian army troops were primarily support to the militias who were also fortified with mercenaries.

The second year was the disastrous Ukrainian counter-offensive, in which at no point was the Russian defensive line ever breached. Every inch of ground the Ukrainians gained was ground Russia was willing to give. Ever since the failed counter-offensive the Russians have slowly and surely advanced across the whole front. The foolish Ukrainian excursion to Kursk was another disaster and didn't change the battle lines at all. You only need to look at the maps to see the truth of it. No need to listen to the propaganda from either side on that account.

 

[Correll]

The "plan" is already going in the shitter.

The embarrassment continues.

Sooo, the war continues. Which is what you want.

So, why are you so unhappy?

 

[Dorian Mode]

It doesn't matter what the leftists think, they don't matter. Trump should do whatever is possible to make sure Ukraine is NEVER another American problem, because Ukraine has almost zero importance to America and certainly not enough to push it into war with a nuclear power. Now, if Europe wants to fight a war with Russia because its globalist leaders want one, Trump needs to make it very clear that they will do it without US involvement. Ukraine is a very corrupt nation, and it was a good way to get America to spend a lot of money on things that benefit the globalist leftists here want. But elections have consequences and the republicans don't really need this war.

 

[kyzr]

That's nonsense. The push and quasi-seige on Kiev locked thousands of Ukrainian troops in the north away from Donbas. The Russian troops withdrew in an orderly fashion then redeployed in Donbas. The Ukrainians were forced to keep troops in the north or risk a repeat with little or no chance of relief if Russia returned to the north.

Taking Kiev was never in the plan. Russia has used the same strategy from day one, advance the line of the entire front. The only real aberration from the plan was Prigizhin's mad rush for Soledad. That foolishness didn't end well for him. The reality on the ground is a far cry from what the Western propaganda claims. That is particularly true of the silly casualty numbers attributed to Russia. All of which are simply rinse and repeat propaganda from Ukrainian 'intelligence'. The truth is Russian losses are a fraction of Ukrainian losses. There is also a lot of misinformation floating around. Initial losses attributed to Russia were in fact the Dobas militias, not the regular Russian army. In the first year regular Russian army troops were primarily support to the militias who were also fortified with mercenaries.

The second year was the disastrous Ukrainian counter-offensive, in which at no point was the Russian defensive line ever breached. Every inch of ground the Ukrainians gained was ground Russia was willing to give. Ever since the failed counter-offensive the Russians have slowly and surely advanced across the whole front. The foolish Ukrainian excursion to Kursk was another disaster and didn't change the battle lines at all. You only need to look at the maps to see the truth of it. No need to listen to the propaganda from either side on that account.

Putin's 3-day war is going on for three long years. Not much ground os being gained. A very stupid war.

 

[kyzr]

If America declare neutrality, and the EU continue to fight, Russia eliminate French nuclear forces by one limited nuclear strike at very few targets and then suggest Europeans Russian peace plan with quite different terms. If EU refuse and retaliate - Russia destroy seven French cities for every Russian city and then suggest even worse terms (up to the choice between unconditional surrender and total elimination).

NATO Article 5 says all of NATO would defeat Russia. Putin isn't that stupid.

And Putin suggest to discuss details.

Putin's request for 1997 NATO can't happen.

It depends on the terms of deal. If it has some "NATO-like security guarantees", yes, it won't be acceptable.

It has US security guarantees.

Every killed Ukrainian Nazi is a progress in the ending of the war. In few more years we'll kill them all.

We think Russia's economy won't last a few more years due to the sanctions.

Actually, Russia is advancing in AI during Ukrainian war. You know, L.A., 2029, from Terminator movie is coming soon.

You know American movies better than I do, but Russia is way behind the US in AI super-intelligence, and robotics.

Watch: Russia's AI robot falls seconds after being unveiled

Footage shows the moment Russia's first anthropomorphic robot fell just seconds after its debut

www.bbc.com

 

[Zavulon]

NATO Article 5 says all of NATO would defeat Russia. Putin isn't that stupid.

They can try. But they can't defeat us. We can defeat them.

Putin's request for 1997 NATO can't happen.

So, there will be no NATO at all. If NATO can't live in peace with Russia and can't demilitarise Eastern Europe - NATO will be eliminated.

It has US security guarantees.

Any "security guarantees" (in Ukrainian understanding) means that the USA will start a direct war against Russia at any moment Ukraine choose. And it means, that for Russia direct, preempive attack against the USA became much more safer than an "uncontrollable escalation" (with first US strike against Russia).
There are only three thing that can really guarantee safety of Ukraine (but not of the Kievan regime) - denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status.

We think Russia's economy won't last a few more years due to the sanctions.

Actually, Russia, allied with China is unbeatable economically. You can't destroy Chinese economy without destroying US economy.
But even if China decided to join US sanctions (which would be stupid and almost suicidal from their side), Russia always can escalate, and, say, start to use tactical nukes.

You know American movies better than I do,

You definitely should watch Terminator (especially first two parts) (and "The Guest from the Future" with its song "My beautiful tomorrow").

but Russia is way behind the US in AI super-intelligence, and robotics.

Really? Say it to Ukrainian militants, playing mice with Russian drones in ruins of Ukrainian cities.

Watch: Russia's AI robot falls seconds after being unveiled

Footage shows the moment Russia's first anthropomorphic robot fell just seconds after its debut

www.bbc.com

The price of semi-autonomous drone type "Prince Vandal" is about forty thousand roubles (a bit lesser than $50). Cheaper than US anti-personnel mine M18A1 Claymore, but much smarter.

Talking about dancing robots (not a priority during war time) we have them, too.

 

[Zavulon]

In 1972, the United States began secret negotiations to end the war in Vietnam without the participation of its official ally—the government of South Vietnam. At that time, President Nguyen Van Thieu still believed he was a full partner of Washington and learned about the real content of the agreement not through diplomatic channels but from leaks to the European press.

He was convinced that the terms of surrender could not be agreed upon without him, but the US had already made a different decision: the peace must be signed within a certain timeframe, and Saigon's unwillingness changed nothing.

From that moment on, a series of urgent trips by Kissinger began—Paris, Moscow, London—with the same pace and tension now visible in European and American capitals around Ukraine.

Washington made Thieu a formal party but excluded him from the process: his opinion was not considered, his objections were ignored, and his internal scandals and falling approval ratings were used as an argument that he was "obstructing peace." Thieu tried to resist, but the US made it clear that military and financial aid would be cut off if he did not sign the document already agreed upon by the great powers.

South Vietnam found itself in a position where the fate of the country was decided behind its back, and all it could do was sign an agreement considered a defeat. "This is an ultimatum, this is capitulation disguised as peace," Thieu protested. It did not help him.

When a great power decides that a war must end, the opinion of an ally ceases to matter. They can object, try to maintain control, argue, hide internal scandals, but the outcome is already determined—in the final phases of a conflict, the fate of a country is always written by those who pay for the war, not those who fight it.

Something very similar to the 28 points for Ukraine, right?

 

[kyzr]

They can try. But they can't defeat us. We can defeat them.
So, there will be no NATO at all. If NATO can't live in peace with Russia and can't demilitarize Eastern Europe - NATO will be eliminated.

No one wins a nuclear war.

Any "security guarantees" (in Ukrainian understanding) means that the USA will start a direct war against Russia at any moment Ukraine choose. And it means, that for Russia direct, preempive attack against the USA became much safer than an "uncontrollable escalation" (with first US strike against Russia). There are only three things that can really guarantee safety of Ukraine (but not of the Kiev regime) - denazification, demilitarization and neutral status.

Wrong. A US security guarantees means the US would defend Ukraine from any Russian invasion. So don't invade.
The US would never strike first.
Those 3 things are fine, there are no Nazis in Ukraine, a buffer zone like in 2014 is okay, and neutral status, i.e. no NATO membership is also okay.

Actually, Russia, allied with China is unbeatable economically. You can't destroy Chinese economy without destroying US economy.
But even if China decided to join US sanctions (which would be stupid and almost suicidal from their side), Russia always can escalate, and, say, start to use tactical nukes.

Desperate men do desperate things. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

You definitely should watch Terminator (especially first two parts) (and "The Guest from the Future" with its song "My beautiful tomorrow").
Really? Say it to Ukrainian militants, playing mice with Russian drones in ruins of Ukrainian cities.

That is a Russian movie from 1984. We don't have access to it yet.

Guest from the Future - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The price of semi-autonomous drone type "Prince Vandal" is about forty thousand rubles (a bit lesser than $50). Cheaper than US anti-personnel mine M18A1 Claymore, but much smarter.
Talking about dancing robots (not a priority during war time) we have them, too.

Your dancing robot doesn't move its feet, not good.
Drones will be evolving all the time, as well as anti-drone technology.

 

[kyzr]

When a great power decides that a war must end, the opinion of an ally ceases to matter. They can object, try to maintain control, argue, hide internal scandals, but the outcome is already determined—in the final phases of a conflict, the fate of a country is always written by those who pay for the war, not those who fight it.
Something very similar to the 28 points for Ukraine, right?

The US is not the only "great power" involved in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the EU countries have a much bigger stake in the outcome than the US. EU countries prefer Ukraine independent of Russia. Even if the US reduces military aid to Ukraine, the EU would continue to provide adequate military aid to prevent a Russian victory.
Trump said that the 28 points is a starting point not a "final offer".
But I think we both can agree that Putin will not accept peace terms until his economy collapses, so the war will continue...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In 1941 it didn't sound so bad for Germans, too.


Who told you about 3 weeks to victory?
Previous time only counter-guerilla warfare in western Ukraine took more than 20 years and many thousands of casualties.
And before it there was regular war against western armies, that took 3 years and 7 million of killed in action (only in Ukraine).

It is a war against Pax Americana and it was highly unlikely that America can retreat without a war. Actually, I don't think that America will retreat without direct, large-scale nuclear war between Russian Federation and the USA.

So, all those peace proposals (from both sides) are nothing but "Good doggy" mumbling, while scratching a holster to pull out a gun.

In 1941 it didn't sound so bad for Germans, too.

In 2025 it doesn't sound so bad for most of the world.

Who told you about 3 weeks to victory?

Putin.

It is a war against Pax Americana and it was highly unlikely that America can retreat without a war.

Why would America retreat from Russia?

 

[Nostra]

?

Sorry troll, I tried to help you out.