Kremlin says Russia is open to dialogue with Trump on Ukraine

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Putin wants Alaska and California, too. Do you think Trump is going to give them him?

Ukraine has held Russia off for three years.

Poland and Germany can defeat Russia. Their military forces are much better and professional than Putin land.

 

[JimH52]

Ukraine failed to deter Russia. Actually they did quite opposite - they did provoke Russia. If NATO countries are too provocative (as Ukraine was) - Russia will beat them. May be, Russia will slap them gently, as it was with Ukraine to coerce them into acceptable peace, or, what is more likely - will beat them hard to death.


Citizenship is one thing. Ethnicity - is a bit different. If, say, Arabs are attacking Jews in Israel, Jews in the USA are feeling themselves attacked either (and trying to help their brothers and sisters). Same way, if Arabs in Middle East are attacked - Arabs in the USA often feel themselves concerned. "We [Arabs, Jews, Russians, Americans] are under attack. We are fighting back." It's really old pattern. "Collective self-defense", one of the things that make us human beings.


Russians (or Jews) in Ukraine (most of them) didn't came in Ukraine. They are not descendants of migrants. They live on their own land. Just some freaking politicians decided that this land is not their, anymore.
I have friends and relatives in Ukraine, including parts still controlled by Kievan regime. They don't like that regime, they don't want to be abused and discriminated. Right now they are waiting for liberation by the Russian Army (to change Kievan regime or to liberate and annex their land).


Most Russians want acceptable terms of peace. If Kievan regime continue discrimination of Russian-speakers - they won't see those terms as "acceptable". What is even more important, if the discrimination continues - people in Ukraine will rebel and people in Russian Federation will support them (NATO or not NATO).
And no, quite significant part of Russians (especially of numerous poor ones) want the war to continue, because it is profitable, and significant part of the most numerous Russian opposition party - Communistic Party, see a world war as a chance for the world's Revolution, and many of Russian rich people (they are minority, but influencial one) - see the local or even regional war as a way to obtain new assets.

Generally speaking - everybody love peace. But in practical terms - war is still good.


A lot of people trust Putin. But Russians do decide what is best for them. If Putin try to sell them something obviously wrong (like continue of existence of Kievan Nazi regime and continue of discrimination of Russians in Ukraine) - ok, they won't buy it.


It is not about territory. If Kiev continues discrimination of Russians - Russians won't see it as a "victory" no matter what tales medoa will tell them.


No, you haven't.


As for me, both of them are senile idiots, but it doesn't really matter. American opinion about Ukraine is irrelevant because America is not ready to sacrifice even one million of Americans to prove that their PoV is relevant.


And who are you? US nuclear posture doesn't "guarantee" it.


MAD is a myth. And even if you believe in it... Man, I'm pretty sure, that you are not going to commit murder(including murder of people who you suppose to defend)-suicide just for the ritual jesture.


Really? Even if they known that it will mean virtually total annihilation of them?


May be you'll try. Its "Deterrence type 3" - ability to fight and win a limited nuclear war. The problem is, that the USA have the only one type of tactical nukes - gravity bombs B61 and not too many of them, without actual capability to deliver significant part of them to targets. So, after a short Limited Nuclear war the USA will face the choice: 1) surrender 2) escalate.


There is only one EU country with nukes. It is France. There arsenal is insignificant and it is not supposed to defend other countries, for its use means suicide for them (for Russians will fight them back). You know, like a bee who can sting, but only by price of its own death.


Because Russia has better nuclear arsenal (especially about its counter-force capability), Russia has better ABD and EMERCOM, Russia has larger national reserves of foods and goods, better capabilities to prevent chaos and anarchy and so on...


Doesn't matter how many nukes you have in peace time. What is matter - how many of them will survive Russian first strike.


Really? Like Nevada and Las Vegas? No. Air-burst don't cause fallouts at all. One thousand of Russian nuclear bursts on US silos will cause deadly levels of radiation in significant parts of Wyoming and Montana, but those levels will fall to normal in few days.


It depends. Some Ukrainians are my cousins.


Of course we don't want to test the outcome of a nuclear war. But much lesser we want to test the outcome of NATO's forces deployment in Ukraine. We do prefer nuclear war.


We don't need ceasefire. We need reliable and lasting peace. And no, Trump talks a lot, but there are very few things he can actually do.

BS BS BS BS BS

 

[kyzr]

Ukraine failed to deter Russia. Actually they did quite opposite - they did provoke Russia. If NATO countries are too provocative (as Ukraine was) - Russia will beat them. May be, Russia will slap them gently, as it was with Ukraine to coerce them into acceptable peace, or, what is more likely - will beat them hard to death.

Please don't try to sugar-coat the disaster Putin suffered when he invaded from the north and tried to capture Kiev. Russians got beaten and had to pull back and regroup attack from the east with shorter supply lines. Russia gained some territory in the east, but got bogged down in a stalemate. Take the peace deal.

Citizenship is one thing. Ethnicity - is a bit different. If, say, Arabs are attacking Jews in Israel, Jews in the USA are feeling themselves attacked either (and trying to help their brothers and sisters). Same way, if Arabs in Middle East are attacked - Arabs in the USA often feel themselves concerned. "We [Arabs, Jews, Russians, Americans] are under attack. We are fighting back." It's really old pattern. "Collective self-defense", one of the things that make us human beings.

My theory is that it takes 3-geneations for a family to lose all ties to their country of origin. Here in the US DNA mixes all over the place. My kids have lots of healthy and varied DNA. The campus riots last summer in support of Gaza were unusual, there looks to be work for ICE to do to deport troublemakers.

Russians (or Jews) in Ukraine (most of them) didn't came in Ukraine. They are not descendants of migrants. They live on their own land. Just some freaking politicians decided that this land is not their, anymore.
I have friends and relatives in Ukraine, including parts still controlled by Kievan regime. They don't like that regime, they don't want to be abused and discriminated. Right now they are waiting for liberation by the Russian Army (to change Kievan regime or to liberate and annex their land).

Countries have borders, countries have armies, if you don't like the country you live in....move.

Most Russians want acceptable terms of peace. If Kievan regime continue discrimination of Russian-speakers - they won't see those terms as "acceptable". What is even more important, if the discrimination continues - people in Ukraine will rebel and people in Russian Federation will support them (NATO or not NATO).
And no, quite significant part of Russians (especially of numerous poor ones) want the war to continue, because it is profitable, and significant part of the most numerous Russian opposition party - Communistic Party, see a world war as a chance for the world's Revolution, and many of Russian rich people (they are minority, but influential one) - see the local or even regional war as a way to obtain new assets.
Generally speaking - everybody love peace. But in practical terms - war is still good.

I hear what you say, and I see how Russia's economy is not prospering. I don't see Communism spreading any time soon.

A lot of people trust Putin. But Russians do decide what is best for them. If Putin try to sell them something obviously wrong (like continue of existence of Kievan Nazi regime and continue of discrimination of Russians in Ukraine) - ok, they won't buy it.

There are no Nazis.

It is not about territory. If Kiev continues discrimination of Russians - Russians won't see it as a "victory" no matter what tales media will tell them.

There are no Russians in Ukraine.

As for me, both of them are senile idiots, but it doesn't really matter. American opinion about Ukraine is irrelevant because America is not ready to sacrifice even one million of Americans to prove that their PoV is relevant.

We don't have to prove anything.

And who are you? US nuclear posture doesn't "guarantee" it.

I think that the US nuclear posture is crystal clear, mutually assured destruction.

MAD is a myth. And even if you believe in it... Man, I'm pretty sure, that you are not going to commit murder(including murder of people who you suppose to defend)-suicide just for the ritual gesture.

Believe it.

Really? Even if they known that it will mean virtually total annihilation of them?

That is the entire point of having nukes. To destroy the country that nukes your country.

May be you'll try. Its "Deterrence type 3" - ability to fight and win a limited nuclear war. The problem is, that the USA have the only one type of tactical nukes - gravity bombs B61 and not too many of them, without actual capability to deliver significant part of them to targets. So, after a short Limited Nuclear war the USA will face the choice: 1) surrender 2) escalate.

Easy choice. Escalate.

There is only one EU country with nukes. It is France. There arsenal is insignificant and it is not supposed to defend other countries, for its use means suicide for them (for Russians will fight them back). You know, like a bee who can sting, but only by price of its own death.

Don't overlook the UK. Combined they have 25% of what Russia has deployed. Enough to be taken seriously.

Because Russia has better nuclear arsenal (especially about its counter-force capability), Russia has better ABD and EMERCOM, Russia has larger national reserves of foods and goods, better capabilities to prevent chaos and anarchy and so on...

Nuclear war is nothing to take lightly. Millions of people will die, and functioning governments will cease to exist.

Doesn't matter how many nukes you have in peace time. What is matter - how many of them will survive Russian first strike.

All of them would survive and be on their way to Russia. Launching is a very bad idea.

Really? Like Nevada and Las Vegas? No. Air-burst don't cause fallout at all. One thousand of Russian nuclear bursts on US silos will cause deadly levels of radiation in significant parts of Wyoming and Montana, but those levels will fall to normal in few days.

We used underground tests. We would detect a Russian launch early and send ours up. A very bad day for both of us.

Of course we don't want to test the outcome of a nuclear war. But much lesser we want to test the outcome of NATO's forces deployment in Ukraine. We do prefer nuclear war.

It looks like the outline of a peace deal is no NATO membership for Ukraine, but NATO peacekeepers would be allowed.

We don't need ceasefire. We need reliable and lasting peace. And no, Trump talks a lot, but there are very few things he can actually do

Fine. We'll see how the talks turn out.

 

[Zavulon]

Please don't try to sugar-coat the disaster Putin suffered when he invaded from the north and tried to capture Kiev. Russians got beaten and had to pull back and regroup attack from the east with shorter supply lines. Russia gained some territory in the east, but got bogged down in a stalemate. Take the peace deal.

It is not about territory and never have been. It is about denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine and it's neutral status. Its not stalemate in any meaningful sense. Most of adult male Ukrainians able to keep weapons in their hands are already dead or left the country. We can just continue and in a year or two - there will be no male adult Ukrainians at all, and the goal of demilitarization will be achieved.

My theory is that it takes 3-geneations for a family to lose all ties to their country of origin.

Are you a social scientist or something to have "your theories"? There are a lot of examples that proves you wrong - there are ethnic and subethnic groups that keeps their identity for centuries in other states - like Jews, Armenians, Russians, many others.

And anyway, there are no three-generation long Ukrainians (even in your understanding of the terms). All "Ukrainians" older than 34 (including almost all "Ukrainian" politicians) are, according your definition, are "Soviets" or "Russians". Aren't they? And Zelenskiy himself isn't a Jew, is he?

Here in the US DNA mixes all over the place.

DNA is mixing in all places. That's human nature.

Countries have borders, countries have armies, if you don't like the country you live in....move.

Or, if you don't like your government - you change it. Or you can leave your country and take your land with you (as it was done by American colonists, being abused by British government).

I hear what you say, and I see how Russia's economy is not prospering. I don't see Communism spreading any time soon.

Russian economy is not Communistic and it is in better condition than, say, american one.

There are no Nazis.

There are Nazies in the Russian understanding of the term "Nazies".

There are no Russians in Ukraine.

Are there Jews in Ukraine?

We don't have to prove anything.

If you want to convince anybody in seriousness of your intentions - you'd better be ready to sacrifice your people. If you are not ready to lose even one million of Americans to defend Ukraine, who'd believe you that you are ready to commit suicide to defend, say, Latvia?

I think that the US nuclear posture is crystal clear, mutually assured destruction.

You'd never read it, right? You just prefer to live in the world of the self-comforting illusion. It's not that difficult to downloand and read US NDS and NPR. Its not even classified.

If you do want continue this discussion without showing yourself as an ignorant fool, I'd recommend you to search, download, print, read and try to understand those documents.

Believe it.

I'm not a member of your church (whatever it is). By the way, I do recognise that my understanding of American religions is truly weak (I prefer to concentrate on capabilities rather than on intentions), and I can't recognise your faith. It seems to me that it is one of the branches of Environmentalism, but, as far as I understand most of them are not MAGAs. Do you mind to name your religion?

That is the entire point of having nukes. To destroy the country that nukes your country.

That is the entire point of having any type of weapon. The question is on the real capabilities.

Easy choice. Escalate.

Not that easy. You escalate - you are dead and the Russians are alive.

Don't overlook the UK. Combined they have 25% of what Russia has deployed. Enough to be taken seriously.

Actually, no.

View attachment 1078395

Nuclear war is nothing to take lightly. Millions of people will die, and functioning governments will cease to exist.

Millions of people will die, thats true, but those who survive - will elect new government.

All of them would survive and be on their way to Russia. Launching is a very bad idea.

As I said - read actual documents.

We used underground tests.

And we'll use air bursts to destroy American cities. No fallouts, either.

We would detect a Russian launch early and send ours up.

It depends. You don't have any operational SBIRS HEO sats now, and you can't detect launcles in polar region.

A very bad day for both of us.

The one who launch first will be the one who laugh last.

It looks like the outline of a peace deal is no NATO membership for Ukraine, but NATO peacekeepers would be allowed.

No. NATO peacekeepers won't be allowed either. If any European county is stupid and suicidal enough to mess with Russia and send their forces in Ukraine - they do it on their own. All NATO guarantees are lifted.
Its official US position now, if I understood correctly.

Fine. We'll see how the talks turn out.

Talks are cheap. Actions are important. We'll see your actions.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

This is about Europe demilitarizing and denazifying Russia and giving it back to the Mongols, well, the Chinese this time.

 

[kyzr]

It is not about territory and never have been. It is about denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine and it's neutral status. Its not stalemate in any meaningful sense. Most of adult male Ukrainians able to keep weapons in their hands are already dead or left the country. We can just continue and in a year or two - there will be no male adult Ukrainians at all, and the goal of demilitarization will be achieved.

You still can't admit that Putin's attack from the north was repelled with heavy casualties. Destroying Ukraine's population gains Russia what? Nothing. Look at what eastern Ukraine has become, a destroyed wasteland. Who has the money to rebuild it? Hint: not Russia.

Are you a social scientist or something to have "your theories"? There are a lot of examples that proves you wrong - there are ethnic and subethnic groups that keeps their identity for centuries in other states - like Jews, Armenians, Russians, many others
And anyway, there are no three-generation long Ukrainians (even in your understanding of the terms). All "Ukrainians" older than 34 (including almost all "Ukrainian" politicians) are, according your definition, are "Soviets" or "Russians". Aren't they? And Zelenskiy himself isn't a Jew, is he?

I'm not a social scientist, but I have made observations. After WW1 there were ethnic communities, like "Little Italy" in every town where ethnic people lived in their own "communities" with their ethnic churches. Now there are none except for Hispanics where they speak their native language. In two generations they will be gone too, becoming a multi-ethnic family speaking only English. In Europe as you say ethnic groups keep their identity longer, but that does not mean they still keep their original national identity. They just keep their customs. I disagree that Ukrainians over 34 are Soviets, they are Ukrainians by definition. If Zelensky goes to a synagogue so what? He is still Ukrainian.

Or, if you don't like your government - you change it. Or you can leave your country and take your land with you (as it was done by American colonists, being abused by British government).

You change it at the ballot box, like by electing Trump. The Brits left Britain for America, they only took themselves.

Russian economy is not Communist and it is in better condition than, say, American one.

That is a whopper. (a gigantic lie)

Are there Jews in Ukraine?

There are Jews all over, including Ukraine.

If you want to convince anybody in seriousness of your intentions - you'd better be ready to sacrifice your people. If you are not ready to lose even one million of Americans to defend Ukraine, who'd believe you that you are ready to commit suicide to defend, say, Latvia?

NATO Article 5 says we defend NATO members, period.

You'd never read it, right? You just prefer to live in the world of the self-comforting illusion. It's not that difficult to downloand and read US NDS and NPR. Its not even classified.

True, I never read that document. It does say that the nuclear policies will be revised by the current president, so that document is officially out of date. Still, you make a valid point that after a limited nuclear strike the president may decide not to launch everything at the attacker.

I'm not a member of your church (whatever it is). By the way, I do recognise that my understanding of American religions is truly weak (I prefer to concentrate on capabilities rather than on intentions), and I can't recognise your faith. It seems to me that it is one of the branches of Environmentalism, but, as far as I understand most of them are not MAGAs. Do you mind to name your religion?

I'm Catholic. The US is predominantly Christian, 70%, with 22% Catholic, so 48% are other Christian denominations.
"The most recent data shows that approximately 70% of Americans are Christians, with about 46% of the population professing belief in Protestant Christianity, and another 22% adhering to Catholicism. About 23% of the population adheres to no religion, and 7% more of the population professes a Non-Christian religion."

That is the entire point of having any type of weapon. The question is on the real capabilities.

True.

Not that easy. You escalate - you are dead and the Russians are alive.

No. Survivability would be about the same. Actually we have "doomsday preppers" here in the US with personal fallout shelters and long term food storage (I'm one). I'm not sure if Russians are prepared for "doomsday" or not?

Millions of people will die, that's true, but those who survive will elect new government, we'll use air bursts to destroy American cities. No fallout.

Bad idea.

It depends. You don't have any operational SBIRS HEO sats now, and you can't detect launches in polar region.

I disagree.

The one who launch first will be the one who laugh last.

Very bad idea.

No. NATO peacekeepers won't be allowed either. If any European county is stupid and suicidal enough to mess with Russia and send their forces in Ukraine - they do it on their own. All NATO guarantees are lifted. Its official US position now, if I understood correctly.

True, but peacekeepers are included in the deal, just not NATO Article 5 peacekeepers. I'm not sure who the buffer troops are on the Russian side of the line is. I don't think Russian troops would be allowed there.

Talks are cheap. Actions are important. We'll see your actions.

Our actions are take the peace deal or we tighten the screws on Russian oil revenue. Take the peace deal.

 

[JimH52]

It is not about territory and never have been. It is about denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine and it's neutral status. Its not stalemate in any meaningful sense. Most of adult male Ukrainians able to keep weapons in their hands are already dead or left the country. We can just continue and in a year or two - there will be no male adult Ukrainians at all, and the goal of demilitarization will be achieved.


Are you a social scientist or something to have "your theories"? There are a lot of examples that proves you wrong - there are ethnic and subethnic groups that keeps their identity for centuries in other states - like Jews, Armenians, Russians, many others.

And anyway, there are no three-generation long Ukrainians (even in your understanding of the terms). All "Ukrainians" older than 34 (including almost all "Ukrainian" politicians) are, according your definition, are "Soviets" or "Russians". Aren't they? And Zelenskiy himself isn't a Jew, is he?



DNA is mixing in all places. That's human nature.



Or, if you don't like your government - you change it. Or you can leave your country and take your land with you (as it was done by American colonists, being abused by British government).


Russian economy is not Communistic and it is in better condition than, say, american one.


There are Nazies in the Russian understanding of the term "Nazies".


Are there Jews in Ukraine?


If you want to convince anybody in seriousness of your intentions - you'd better be ready to sacrifice your people. If you are not ready to lose even one million of Americans to defend Ukraine, who'd believe you that you are ready to commit suicide to defend, say, Latvia?


You'd never read it, right? You just prefer to live in the world of the self-comforting illusion. It's not that difficult to downloand and read US NDS and NPR. Its not even classified.
View attachment 1078475
View attachment 1078476


If you do want continue this discussion without showing yourself as an ignorant fool, I'd recommend you to search, download, print, read and try to understand those documents.


I'm not a member of your church (whatever it is). By the way, I do recognise that my understanding of American religions is truly weak (I prefer to concentrate on capabilities rather than on intentions), and I can't recognise your faith. It seems to me that it is one of the branches of Environmentalism, but, as far as I understand most of them are not MAGAs. Do you mind to name your religion?


That is the entire point of having any type of weapon. The question is on the real capabilities.


Not that easy. You escalate - you are dead and the Russians are alive.


Actually, no.


Millions of people will die, thats true, but those who survive - will elect new government.


As I said - read actual documents.


And we'll use air bursts to destroy American cities. No fallouts, either.


It depends. You don't have any operational SBIRS HEO sats now, and you can't detect launcles in polar region.


The one who launch first will be the one who laugh last.


No. NATO peacekeepers won't be allowed either. If any European county is stupid and suicidal enough to mess with Russia and send their forces in Ukraine - they do it on their own. All NATO guarantees are lifted.
Its official US position now, if I understood correctly.


Talks are cheap. Actions are important. We'll see your actions.

BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS

 

[Zavulon]

You still can't admit that Putin's attack from the north was repelled with heavy casualties.

There were no "heavy casualties" in this conflict. Not yet. We are just warming up.

Destroying Ukraine's population gains Russia what? Nothing.

Elimination of all Banderlogs will increase safety of Russian people. As well as elimination of Muslim terrorists increased safety of American people. More terrorists killed - more safe Americans are.

Look at what eastern Ukraine has become, a destroyed wasteland.

Are you banned on YouTube too?

Who has the money to rebuild it? Hint: not Russia.

Russia has a lot of money, but what is even more important - the EU and the USA, defeated in the war, will pay reparations either.

I'm not a social scientist, but I have made observations. After WW1 there were ethnic communities, like "Little Italy" in every town where ethnic people lived in their own "communities" with their ethnic churches. Now there are none except for Hispanics where they speak their native language. In two generations they will be gone too, becoming a multi-ethnic family speaking only English. In Europe as you say ethnic groups keep their identity longer, but that does not mean they still keep their original national identity.

You see, the difference between scientists and laymen is about what scientists usually have more information to analyse and they do know how to analyse it. And scientists do know, that some groups in some environments assimilate instantly, other - don't assimilate in centuries.

They just keep their customs. I disagree that Ukrainians over 34 are Soviets, they are Ukrainians by definition.

By what definition? Everyone who lives in Ukraine is Ukrainian, everyone who lives in Russia is a Russian, and everyone who came in America becomes an American in the very moment when his foot touched American soil? First of all, those who live in Ukraine, Russia and America won't agree with you. Second, even if we (just for the matter of discussion) accept you approach, then Russian annexation of Ukraine will instantly transform all Ukrainians in Russians and the problem is solved.

If Zelensky goes to a synagogue so what? He is still Ukrainian.

Zelenskiy doesn't go to a synagogue. He is an atheistic Jew, as far as I know.

You change it at the ballot box, like by electing Trump.

Sometimes - yes. But when one side (like Banderlogs) overwhelm government by force, as it was during Maidan coup aka "Revolution of Dignity", other side also can use force to overwhelm Junta.

The Brits left Britain for America, they only took themselves.

American colonies, parts of British Empire, declared independence. Same way, Crimea and Donbass declared independence.

That is a whopper. (a gigantic lie)

Its truth in almost all meaningful senses.

There are Jews all over, including Ukraine.

If there are Jews in Ukraine and the USA why there can't be Russians in Ukraine and the USA?

NATO Article 5 says we defend NATO members, period.

You have been "defending" Southern Vietnam either.

True, I never read that document. It does say that the nuclear policies will be revised by the current president, so that document is officially out of date. Still, you make a valid point that after a limited nuclear strike the president may decide not to launch everything at the attacker.

Ok. It's not my point, it's DoD's point. "No MAD". And if the Russians by their limited strike destroyed almost all American nukes (so America can't in its retaliation strike kill more than few millions of Russians), and didn't killed more than few millions of American civilians, and Russia still have enough nukes to kill 90% of US population and Russia suggested pretty generous peace offer (like the USA return Alaska and California to Russia, but still exist as independent state), then, highly unlikely, that the USA will choose "retaliate and die out".

I'm Catholic.

Roman Catholic, you mean? Practicing Roman Catholic or "A Christian in name only"? No offence, but I didn't know, that Christians may believe in "Nuclear Apocalypse".

You know Mattew 26:6
-------------
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
--------------

True.

No. Survivability would be about the same. Actually we have "doomsday preppers" here in the US with personal fallout shelters and long term food storage (I'm one). I'm not sure if Russians are prepared for "doomsday" or not?

Of course Russians are prepared. Russian MChS is not a pity joke as American FEMA is.

Bad idea.

May be, it is a bad idea, but it may be the lesser evil.

I disagree.

Ok. And how many (in your opinion) SBIRS HEO sats do you have?

Very bad idea.

True, but peacekeepers are included in the deal, just not NATO Article 5 peacekeepers. I'm not sure who the buffer troops are on the Russian side of the line is. I don't think Russian troops would be allowed there.

There will be no any "peacekeepers". You want defend Banderlogs and prevent de-nazification - there is no deal. Zelenskiy is a deadman, the only question how many Ukrainians, Europeans and Americans he will draw with him in the grave.

Our actions are take the peace deal or we tighten the screws on Russian oil revenue.

Really? Nobody cares. Its the game for more than one.

Take the peace deal.

It all depends on the terms of the deal. For the moment I didn't hear anything specific. What is even more important, I didn't see any actions, demonstrating that Americans are actually interested in the deal.

Any possible deal should include, for starters, denazification, demilitarization and neutral status of Ukraine.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The Russians had 18,000 casualties in the first 7 days on the blitz road and anoterh 5 thousand extracting the remainder of their troops.

25,000 Rus causalities on one road in all of Ukraine is bad.

 

[Zavulon]

The Russians had 18,000 casualties in the first 7 days on the blitz road and anoterh 5 thousand extracting the remainder of their troops.

25,000 Rus causalities on one road in all of Ukraine is bad.

May be. More likely - it's a usual Ukrainian BS. But anyway, it's nothing really serious. If it comes to a real war - both Russians and Americans will count casualties in millions, not in thousands.

 

[sartre play]

Besides not liking dictators,
Am not happy about PUTIN bringing in North Korean troops
and buying weapons from IRAN & China.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

May be. More likely - it's a usual Ukrainian BS. But anyway, it's nothing really serious. If it comes to a real war - both Russians and Americans will count casualties in millions, not in thousands.

We will survive. Your country and most of your people will not.

 

[Zavulon]

We will survive. Your country and most of your people will not.

We'll see. May be, we'll see it this or next year.

 

[JimH52]

There were no "heavy casualties" in this conflict. Not yet. We are just warming up.

Elimination of all Banderlogs will increase safety of Russian people. As well as elimination of Muslim terrorists increased safety of American people. More terrorists killed - more safe Americans are.


Are you banned on YouTube too?



Russia has a lot of money, but what is even more important - the EU and the USA, defeated in the war, will pay reparations either.


You see, the difference between scientists and laymen is about what scientists usually have more information to analyse and they do know how to analyse it. And scientists do know, that some groups in some environments assimilate instantly, other - don't assimilate in centuries.


By what definition? Everyone who lives in Ukraine is Ukrainian, everyone who lives in Russia is a Russian, and everyone who came in America becomes an American in the very moment when his foot touched American soil? First of all, those who live in Ukraine, Russia and America won't agree with you. Second, even if we (just for the matter of discussion) accept you approach, then Russian annexation of Ukraine will instantly transform all Ukrainians in Russians and the problem is solved.


Zelenskiy doesn't go to a synagogue. He is an atheistic Jew, as far as I know.


Sometimes - yes. But when one side (like Banderlogs) overwhelm government by force, as it was during Maidan coup aka "Revolution of Dignity", other side also can use force to overwhelm Junta.


American colonies, parts of British Empire, declared independence. Same way, Crimea and Donbass declared independence.


Its truth in almost all meaningful senses.

If there are Jews in Ukraine and the USA why there can't be Russians in Ukraine and the USA?


You have been "defending" Southern Vietnam either.


Ok. It's not my point, it's DoD's point. "No MAD". And if the Russians by their limited strike destroyed almost all American nukes (so America can't in its retaliation strike kill more than few millions of Russians), and didn't killed more than few millions of American civilians, and Russia still have enough nukes to kill 90% of US population and Russia suggested pretty generous peace offer (like the USA return Alaska and California to Russia, but still exist as independent state), then, highly unlikely, that the USA will choose "retaliate and die out".


Roman Catholic, you mean? Practicing Roman Catholic or "A Christian in name only"? No offence, but I didn't know, that Christians may believe in "Nuclear Apocalypse".

You know Mattew 26:6
-------------
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
--------------




Of course Russians are prepared. Russian MChS is not a pity joke as American FEMA is.


May be, it is a bad idea, but it may be the lesser evil.

Ok. And how many (in your opinion) SBIRS HEO sats do you have?


There will be no any "peacekeepers". You want defend Banderlogs and prevent de-nazification - there is no deal. Zelenskiy is a deadman, the only question how many Ukrainians, Europeans and Americans he will draw with him in the grave.



Really? Nobody cares. Its the game for more than one.

It all depends on the terms of the deal. For the moment I didn't hear anything specific. What is even more important, I didn't see any actions, demonstrating that Americans are actually interested in the deal.

Any possible deal should include, for starters, denazification, demilitarization and neutral status of Ukraine.

Go home Conrade...

 

[Contumacious]

President Vladimir Putin said Russia’s ready for talks with the US on the war in Ukraine as he offered congratulations to Donald Trump on his inauguration as president. Russia welcomed Trump’s desire to restore direct contacts and his statements on the need to prevent a third world war, he said. “We are open to dialogue with the new US administration on the Ukrainian conflict,” Putin said. “Its goal should not be a short truce, not some kind of respite for regrouping forces and rearmament with the aim of subsequently continuing the conflict, but a long-term peace based on respect for the legitimate interests of all people, all nations that live in this region.”
Putin has said repeatedly that he’s open to talks about a settlement to Russia’s nearly three-year-long war, even as he also insists he won’t give up territories that his army seized in the east and south of Ukraine since he ordered the full-scale invasion. Moreover, Putin will only make a deal if Ukraine reduces its army and refuses to join NATO altogether. Even before his inauguration, Trump said he understood the Russian president in this regard, so he would be willing to make concessions in addition to his own plan to pressure Russia to end the war.

***Mod Edit: Added link Putin calls Trump 'clever' and suggests talks, including over Ukraine​

Those principles were stablished after the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

But the goddamned warmongers, neocrazies and war profiteers love to stir up a hornet's nest.

 

[kyzr]

Elimination of all Banderlogs will increase safety of Russian people. As well as elimination of Muslim terrorists increased safety of American people. More terrorists killed - more safe Americans are.

Bandarlog from "Jungle Book"???

Are you banned on YouTube too? (Eastern Ukraine is not a battered war zone)

This is what Donbas looks like now

Russia has a lot of money, but what is even more important - the EU and the USA, defeated in the war, will pay reparations either.

No one mentioned reparations, if anyone pays it will be Russia for invading Ukraine. Apparently there is $300b of Russia's money that can be withheld if we wanted to.

By what definition? Everyone who lives in Ukraine is Ukrainian, everyone who lives in Russia is a Russian, and everyone who came in America becomes an American in the very moment when his foot touched American soil? First of all, those who live in Ukraine, Russia and America won't agree with you. Second, even if we (just for the matter of discussion) accept you approach, then Russian annexation of Ukraine will instantly transform all Ukrainians in Russians and the problem is solved.

There are citizens and visitors who carry passports. Ukraine is a sovereign country, they can deport people who prefer not to be Ukrainian, like we deport illegals who sneak in.

Sometimes - yes. But when one side (like Banderlogs) overwhelm government by force, as it was during Maidan coup aka "Revolution of Dignity", other side also can use force to overwhelm Junta.

Ukrainians want sovereignty not to be part of Russia. They threw the Russian "president" out during Maidan.

American colonies, parts of British Empire, declared independence. Same way, Crimea and Donbass declared independence.

Fine. Keep them in good health.

If there are Jews in Ukraine and the USA why there can't be Russians in Ukraine and the USA?

Jewish is a religion, any Russian citizens in Ukraine or USA are visitors via passports, not citizens.

You have been "defending" Southern Vietnam either.

VN is not a NATO member. NATO members are required to defend each other.

Ok. It's not my point, it's DoD's point. "No MAD". And if the Russians by their limited strike destroyed almost all American nukes (so America can't in its retaliation strike kill more than few millions of Russians), and didn't killed more than few millions of American civilians, and Russia still have enough nukes to kill 90% of US population and Russia suggested pretty generous peace offer (like the USA return Alaska and California to Russia, but still exist as independent state), then, highly unlikely, that the USA will choose "retaliate and die out".

It WAS DoD's point, now its Trump's call what to do if a tactical nuke hits. No clue what he'd do, but it won't be good for Russia.

Roman Catholic, you mean? Practicing Roman Catholic or "A Christian in name only"? No offence, but I didn't know, that Christians may believe in "Nuclear Apocalypse". You know Mattew 26:6
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Religion is all about God and souls, not about war.

Of course Russians are prepared. Russian MChS is not a pity joke as American FEMA is.

FEMA is done. It got too political.

Ok. And how many (in your opinion) SBIRS HEO sats do you have?

We have a Space Force that deals with satellites. I have no clue, but I'd bet they have Russian nuclear launches covered.

There will be no any "peacekeepers". You want defend Banderlogs and prevent de-nazification - there is no deal. Zelenskiy is a deadman, the only question how many Ukrainians, Europeans and Americans he will draw with him in the grave.

Big talk. See you guys at the peace negotiations. No bluffs allowed.

Really? Nobody cares. Its the game for more than one.

We'll see who holds the better cards.

It all depends on the terms of the deal. For the moment I didn't hear anything specific. What is even more important, I didn't see any actions, demonstrating that Americans are actually interested in the deal.

True. No negotiating unless at the table. What US actions? We're trying to broker a peace deal between two warring countries.

Any possible deal should include, for starters, denazification, demilitarization and neutral status of Ukraine.

We'll soon see how the negotiations shake out.

 

[Zavulon]

Bandarlog from "Jungle Book"???

More or less. "Banderlogs" aka "Banderovci" (from the name of Stepan Bandera Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia) are Ukrainian (mostly west Ukrainain) far right nationalists and Nazi collaborators. (At least it is how Russians, including east and south Ukrainians) see them. One of the last stages of human degradation. Actually, Russians see the three stages of Ukrainism:
1. Ukrainets (Ukrainian) - just a normal Russian person, living in Ukraine and undistinguisheble from the Russians from other regions of Russia. Just about place of life, while officials try to make it about ethnicity.

2. Khohol (Forelock) - it's a Russian person who tell everyone that he is not a Russian, and for this goal he may wear villager's outfits, make a specific haircut, and (usually badly) talk artificial language created from the south-western Russian villagers' dialects (Derjavna Mova). Funny, but usually harmless freaks.

3. Banderlog/Banderoviets (Netflix usually translate it as "Ukrainian Nazi Collaborant") - is a Russian human being, betrayed its Russian nature, hating itself and other people and serving to their Astro-Hungarian, Polish, German and, after WWII, US and British masters. Stupid and vile creatures. They should be eliminated.
And, talking about "Jungle Book" (its Russian adaptation, of course), yeah, they are the food for wise Kaa (quite different from Disney's imbecile joker).

View attachment 1078865 This is what Donbas looks like now
View attachment 1078867

It's a little part of Donbass. And, by the way, didn't you see Grozniy twenty-four years ago? And Google what it became now.

No one mentioned reparations, if anyone pays it will be Russia for invading Ukraine.

It's not for public discussion, I believe, but let be realistic. You are defeated. You'll pay.

Apparently there is $300b of Russia's money that can be withheld if we wanted to.

Do it, and dollar will collapse in less than few years.

There are citizens and visitors who carry passports. Ukraine is a sovereign country, they can deport people who prefer not to be Ukrainian, like we deport illegals who sneak in.

There are a lot of citizens of Ukraine who doesn't see themselves as "ethnic Ukrainians". They see themselves as Russians, Jews, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Hungarians and others.

Ukrainians want sovereignty not to be part of Russia. They threw the Russian "president" out during Maidan.

No. Ukrainians voted for the "Russian president" at the last more or less free elections back in 2010. Actually, in 2020 more than 70% of them voted for the Russian Jews with his motto "Let's make peace with Russia" against more or less Ukrainian Petr Poroshenko with his motto "Army. Language. Faith."

Jewish is a religion, any Russian citizens in Ukraine or USA are visitors via passports, not citizens.

A lot of Jews are atheists. Some of them are Christians, Muslims or Buddhists. My Dad was an Atheist Jew. It's an ethnic group, not religion.

VN is not a NATO member. NATO members are required to defend each other.

It's all based on words and promises.

It WAS DoD's point, now its Trump's call what to do if a tactical nuke hits. No clue what he'd do, but it won't be good for Russia.

It is not about what he wants to do. It is about what he can do. About actual capabilities to do something. And, in the terms of tactical nuclear warfare America can do only three things - knee, gobble and swallow.

Religion is all about God and souls, not about war.

Are you sure that you are a Christian? Ever read Bible?

FEMA is done. It got too political.

It's not just about being too political. It's more about being too ineffective. And without effective EMERCOM you won't be able to recuperate even after a limited nuclear exchange.

We have a Space Force that deals with satellites. I have no clue, but I'd bet they have Russian nuclear launches covered.

How many millions of American lives do you want to bet on this guess? And, before making the bet - try to find the actual information. You'll be surprised.

 

[kyzr]

More or less. "Banderlogs" aka "Banderovci" (from the name of Stepan Bandera Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia) are Ukrainian (mostly west Ukrainain) far right nationalists and Nazi collaborators. (At least it is how Russians, including east and south Ukrainians) see them. One of the last stages of human degradation. Actually, Russians see the three stages of Ukrainism:
1. Ukrainets (Ukrainian) - just a normal Russian person, living in Ukraine and undistinguisheble from the Russians from other regions of Russia. Just about place of life, while officials try to make it about ethnicity.
2. Khohol (Forelock) - it's a Russian person who tell everyone that he is not a Russian, and for this goal he may wear villager's outfits, make a specific haircut, and (usually badly) talk artificial language created from the south-western Russian villagers' dialects (Derjavna Mova). Funny, but usually harmless freaks.
3. Banderlog/Banderoviets (Netflix usually translate it as "Ukrainian Nazi Collaborant") - is a Russian human being, betrayed its Russian nature, hating itself and other people and serving to their Astro-Hungarian, Polish, German and, after WWII, US and British masters. Stupid and vile creatures. They should be eliminated.
And, talking about "Jungle Book" (its Russian adaptation, of course), yeah, they are the food for wise Kaa (quite different from Disney's imbecile joker).

Denigrating Ukrainians is a bad idea. Ever see the Nazi propaganda film "Global Jew" or "Eternal Jew"? Its on youtube, its what Nazis did.

It's a little part of Donbass. And, by the way, didn't you see Grozniy twenty-four years ago? And Google what it became now.

Its possible to rebuild war damage, but it takes a lot of money.

It's not for public discussion, I believe, but let be realistic. You are defeated. You'll pay.

No one lost, it was a stalemate.

Do it, and dollar will collapse in less than few years.

Dream on.

There are a lot of citizens of Ukraine who doesn't see themselves as "ethnic Ukrainians". They see themselves as Russians, Jews, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Hungarians and others.

Ethnicity doesn't matter. Ukraine is a sovereign country whose army battled Russia to a stalemate.

Ukrainians voted for the "Russian president" at the last more or less free election back in 2010. Actually, in 2020 more than 70% of them voted for the Russian Jew with his motto "Let's make peace with Russia" against more or less Ukrainian Petr Poroshenko with his motto "Army. Language. Faith."

The Jewish comedian won in 2020. Russia invaded. We'll see what happens next.

A lot of Jews are atheists. Some of them are Christians, Muslims or Buddhists. My Dad was an Atheist Jew. It's an ethnic group, not religion.

There is Jewish DNA, there are Jewish customs, I believe they are automatically citizens of Israel via "dual citizenship?", they have their own religion at synagogues, I have no clue how they view their citizenship loyalty. Not very patriotic?

NATO Article-5 defense is all based on words and promises.

True. Would you count on EU countries to send troops if one was attacked? Their armies are not good enough.

It is not about what he wants to do. It is about what he can do. About actual capabilities to do something. And, in the terms of tactical nuclear warfare America can do only three things - knee, gobble and swallow.

LOL. We have a "triad" and always have bombers in the air and "boomer" subs at sea. Actual capabilities are very scary, devastating, life ending, not to be tested.

Are you sure that you are a Christian? Ever read Bible?

Catholic, no. We hear bible passages at Mass. Primarily New Testament. (my wife's bible has brief summaries before each book, I read those, we'd call those the Cliff Notes version)

It's not just about FEMA being too political. It's more about being too ineffective. And without effective EMERCOM you won't be able to recuperate even after a limited nuclear exchange.

I prefer not to test that theory.

How many millions of American lives do you want to bet on this guess? And, before making the bet - try to find the actual information. You'll be surprised.

Musk wants to replace the old FAA radar systems for air traffic control with space-based satellite systems. Saying that we see and monitor all of Russia's nuclear capabilities is not an exaggeration. We both watch each other, all the time.

New details emerge of Russia's potential nuclear space weapon - Breaking Defense

"The United States has been aware of Russia's pursuit of this sort of capability dating back years, but only recently have we been able to make a more precise assessment of their progress," said Mallory Stewart, State Department assistant secretary for the Bureau of Arms Control, Deterrence, and...

breakingdefense.com

Why Russia’s Nuclear Forces Are No Longer Being Updated

Faced with the conditions of a real war, the defense industry’s priorities have shifted toward conventional forces.

carnegieendowment.org

 

[Mac1958]

Ukraine has held Russia off for three years.

Poland and Germany can defeat Russia. Their military forces are much better and professional than Putin land.

Putin has to make a deal soon, and he has the perfect American administration in place for that.

Hell, they've already given away the store -- no NATO for Ukraine, Russia can keep the land it has taken, let's get Russia back into the world.

Zelensky will demand some kind of security guarantees, for obvious reasons, but Trump will keep them as weak as possible and Putin will ultimately ignore any deal.

Vlad lucked out in November, that's for sure. Europe needs to move quickly. They should start their own version of NATO. America's no longer an ally to anyone.

 

[kyzr]

Putin has to make a deal soon, and he has the perfect American administration in place for that.
Hell, they've already given away the store -- no NATO for Ukraine, Russia can keep the land it has taken, let's get Russia back into the world.
Zelensky will demand some kind of security guarantees, for obvious reasons, but Trump will keep them as weak as possible and Putin will ignore any deal.
Vlad lucked out in November, that's for sure. Europe needs to move quickly. They should start their own version of NATO. America's no longer an ally to anyone.

1. Nothing is off the table. Pete walked back his comments.
2. Your view of NATO is ass-backwards. The EU has no military dumbass. That is the problem, duh.
3. Any more idiotic things to type?