Kremlin says Russia is open to dialogue with Trump on Ukraine

[Zavulon]

Apparently the first meeting went well In Saudi Arabia. But the real deal makers Putin and Trump need to schedule talks.

What We Learned From High-Stakes U.S.-Russia Talks In Saudi Arabia

U.S. and Russian officials have finished their first talks on ending the war in Ukraine, with Kyiv and its European allies watching anxiously from the sidelines.

www.rferl.org

So lets hope they end the war and avoid unnecessary deaths.

Yes. Let's hope. But a bad peace is worse than a good fight. And I don't expect much from those conversations.

Stop with your nuclear war option. We both know that is Russian suicide.

No. You think you know it. It is a part of your true religion, environmentalism. But the Russians are not Environmentalists, they don't believe in Nuclear Winter. They believe in The Victory.

If you believe humans have souls, you should believe in God, and practice a religion.

I don't believe in souls, gods, demons, nuclear winters, global warmings and other BS. I believe in science. I believe in sober logic and proper calculations.

I see Putin bless himself occasionally, which means he must have a very complex relationship between his God, his church and his job. Trump takes God and religion much more seriously after the bullet went thru his ear because he turned his head at the exact instant the shot was fired. However, I don't think their meeting will start with a prayer.

Of course no. Putin is an Orthodox Christian, and its strictly restricted in Orthodoxy to make prayers with infidels.

We don't know what we don't know about the long term effects of nuclear radiation.

Nuclear radiation is no difference with other well known radiations. And its effects are well studied. It won't be a catastrophe even in pessimistic scenario.

Or how severe a "nuclear winter" would be after an all-out nuclear war.

Actually, we can make guesses. There is a little chance that there will be change in the lasting Ice Age, same little chance that there will be change in the another lasting warm Eemian interglacial, and large set of possibilities of little weather changes up to +3/-3 C degrees for relatively short time - like, say, few years. And no chances of something really catastrophic.

Your assumption of a few strategic strikes is probably very optimistic.

I can't predict American behaviour, of course, and I know that I can't predict it. (You can't predict Russian behaviour but you believe you can). But what I know about you culture and behaviour.... You are pragmatical. If we give you time (day or two) to think and calculate all consequences of your possible retaliation (that's mostly why we need "humanitarian pause" without nuking the cities) - you'll accept pretty generous terms of Russian peace.

How many US and Russian cities would be destroyed after a major nuclear exchange?

It mostly depends on how many American SSBNs survive first Russian strike, how reliable are Trident II missiles, how good are their counter-ABD measures, and how good are Russian ABD. If there are two survived Ohio's in Atlantic and they choose to launch a retaliation counter-value strike (while it means certain destruction of the USA) may be, they'll destroy Moscow and/or few large cities. Terrible, but acceptable price.

How much of the militaries would remain intact and operational? I don't want to find out.

You can try to calculate it in advance. Or read about it in good books.

You have bomb shelters and fallout shelters for large populations? Seriously?

Yes. Actually, Moscow has shelters for 100% of population. Like, say, stations of Moscow underground.

 

[JimH52]

Yes. Let's hope. But a bad peace is worse than a good fight. And I don't expect much from those conversations.


No. You think you know it. It is a part of your true religion, environmentalism. But the Russians are not Environmentalists, they don't believe in Nuclear Winter. They believe in The Victory.



I don't believe in souls, gods, demons, nuclear winters, global warmings and other BS. I believe in science. I believe in sober logic and proper calculations.


Of course no. Putin is an Orthodox Christian, and its strictly restricted in Orthodoxy to make prayers with infidels.


Nuclear radiation is no difference with other well known radiations. And its effects are well studied. It won't be a catastrophe even in pessimistic scenario.


Actually, we can make guesses. There is a little chance that there will be change in the lasting Ice Age, same little chance that there will be change in the another lasting warm Eemian interglacial, and large set of possibilities of little weather changes up to +3/-3 C degrees for relatively short time - like, say, few years. And no chances of something really catastrophic.


I can't predict American behaviour, of course, and I know that I can't predict it. (You can't predict Russian behaviour but you believe you can). But what I know about you culture and behaviour.... You are pragmatical. If we give you time (day or two) to think and calculate all consequences of your possible retaliation (that's mostly why we need "humanitarian pause" without nuking the cities) - you'll accept pretty generous terms of Russian peace.


It mostly depends on how many American SSBNs survive first Russian strike, how reliable are Trident II missiles, how good are their counter-ABD measures, and how good are Russian ABD. If there are two survived Ohio's in Atlantic and they choose to launch a retaliation counter-value strike (while it means certain destruction of the USA) may be, they'll destroy Moscow and/or few large cities. Terrible, but acceptable price.


You can try to calculate it in advance. Or read about it in good books.


Yes. Actually, Moscow has shelters for 100% of population. Like, say, stations of Moscow underground.

The first thing trump does is to lift sanctions. He owes it to his buddy, Poootin.

 

[Zavulon]

The first thing trump does is to lift sanctions. He owes it to his buddy, Poootin.

I don't think so. Personally Putin is pretty beneficial because of sanctions.

 

[JimH52]

I don't think so. Personally Putin is pretty beneficial because of sanctions.

It won't take much to get trump to release Russia of all sanctions.

 

[my2¢]

Hopefully it goes better than our withdraw from Afghanistan. One thing that concerns me is that Trump will leave out the Ukrainians as he did with the Afghans when he sucked up to the Taliban and withdrew our forces. If there is to be a lasting peace between the Ukraine and Russia, then both sides must be in on the negotiations.

 

[Zavulon]

Hopefully it goes better than our withdraw from Afghanistan. One thing that concerns me is that Trump will leave out the Ukrainians as he did with the Afghans when he sucked up to the Taliban and withdrew our forces. If there is to be a lasting peace between the Ukraine and Russia, then both sides must be in on the negotiations.

Or one side should be totally annihilated (and this side won't be Russia).

 

[schmidlap]

President Vladimir Putin said Russia’s ready for talks with the US on the war in Ukraine as he offered congratulations to Donald Trump on his inauguration as president. Russia welcomed Trump’s desire to restore direct contacts and his statements on the need to prevent a third world war, he said. “We are open to dialogue with the new US administration on the Ukrainian conflict,” Putin said. “Its goal should not be a short truce, not some kind of respite for regrouping forces and rearmament with the aim of subsequently continuing the conflict, but a long-term peace based on respect for the legitimate interests of all people, all nations that live in this region.”
Putin has said repeatedly that he’s open to talks about a settlement to Russia’s nearly three-year-long war, even as he also insists he won’t give up territories that his army seized in the east and south of Ukraine since he ordered the full-scale invasion. Moreover, Putin will only make a deal if Ukraine reduces its army and refuses to join NATO altogether. Even before his inauguration, Trump said he understood the Russian president in this regard, so he would be willing to make concessions in addition to his own plan to pressure Russia to end the war.

***Mod Edit: Added link Putin calls Trump 'clever' and suggests talks, including over Ukraine​

Trump sucking up to Putin, rewarding him for his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation, and wimping out on democratic allies' defense of a nascent democracy, is hardly surprising.

 

[JimH52]

Hopefully it goes better than our withdraw from Afghanistan. One thing that concerns me is that Trump will leave out the Ukrainians as he did with the Afghans when he sucked up to the Taliban and withdrew our forces. If there is to be a lasting peace between the Ukraine and Russia, then both sides must be in on the negotiations.

I may be wrong, but I think the deal is cooked. trump and Poootie have worked it out and when Zelensky objects, trump will just berate and demean him. Yeah, Ukraine is gonna lose out.

 

[kyzr]

Yes. Let's hope. But a bad peace is worse than a good fight. And I don't expect much from those conversations.

Neither side will want to give anything, but both sides want to end the war. We'll see how the talks develop, but at least the first meeting went well. There are four principles that were agreed to.

No. You think you know it. It is a part of your true religion, environmentalism. But the Russians are not Environmentalists, they don't believe in Nuclear Winter. They believe in The Victory.

There is no "victory "when your cities are turned to ash.

I don't believe in souls, gods, demons, nuclear winters, global warming and other BS. I believe in science. I believe in sober logic and proper calculations. Of course no. Putin is an Orthodox Christian, and its strictly restricted in Orthodoxy to make prayers with infidels.

Thank you for that beautiful video of the Main Cathedral of the Russian Armed Forces. So you are an old school commie atheist? So what do you see when you watch that cathedral video? A monument to superstition? I'm a retired engineer, I did calculations every day. What I usually tell atheists is to buy a good "ghost box" and see if that convinces them spirits exist. I was joking when I suggested Trump and Putin would start their meeting with a prayer, although it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Nuclear radiation is no different than other well known radiation. And its effects are well studied. It won't be a catastrophe even in pessimistic scenario. Actually, we can make guesses. There is a little chance that there will be change in the lasting Ice Age, same little chance that there will be change in the another lasting warm Eemian interglacial, and large set of possibilities of little weather changes up to +3/-3 C degrees for relatively short time - like, say, few years. And no chances of something really catastrophic.

I prefer not to consider what I don't want to happen.

I can't predict American behaviour, of course, and I know that I can't predict it. (You can't predict Russian behaviour but you believe you can). But what I know about you culture and behaviour.... You are pragmatical. If we give you time (day or two) to think and calculate all consequences of your possible retaliation (that's mostly why we need "humanitarian pause" without nuking the cities) - you'll accept pretty generous terms of Russian peace.

True we can't always predict each other's behaviours. All we need to predict is that neither of us will hit the launch buttons.

It mostly depends on how many American SSBNs survive first Russian strike, how reliable are Trident II missiles, how good are their counter-ABD measures, and how good are Russian ABD. If there are two survived Ohio's in Atlantic and they choose to launch a retaliation counter-value strike (while it means certain destruction of the USA) may be, they'll destroy Moscow and/or few large cities. Terrible, but acceptable price.

I prefer the previous answer, neither of us should hit the launch button.

 

[Dante]

President Vladimir Putin said Russia’s ready for talks with the US on the war in Ukraine as he offered congratulations to Donald Trump on his inauguration as president. Russia welcomed Trump’s desire to restore direct contacts and his statements on the need to prevent a third world war, he said. “We are open to dialogue with the new US administration on the Ukrainian conflict,” Putin said. “Its goal should not be a short truce, not some kind of respite for regrouping forces and rearmament with the aim of subsequently continuing the conflict, but a long-term peace based on respect for the legitimate interests of all people, all nations that live in this region.”
Putin has said repeatedly that he’s open to talks about a settlement to Russia’s nearly three-year-long war, even as he also insists he won’t give up territories that his army seized in the east and south of Ukraine since he ordered the full-scale invasion. Moreover, Putin will only make a deal if Ukraine reduces its army and refuses to join NATO altogether. Even before his inauguration, Trump said he understood the Russian president in this regard, so he would be willing to make concessions in addition to his own plan to pressure Russia to end the war.

***Mod Edit: Added link Putin calls Trump 'clever' and suggests talks, including over Ukraine​

sans Ukraine



Putin blowing smoke up Donald's fat arse

 

[JimH52]

sans Ukraine



Putin blowing smoke up Donald's fat arse

The deal is done. Ukraine is screwed. Zelensky know it.

 

[Zavulon]

Neither side will want to give anything, but both sides want to end the war. We'll see how the talks develop, but at least the first meeting went well. There are four principles that were agreed to.

The only question is how much you are ready to pay (and how many Americans sacrifice) to achieve your goals? Freedom is not free, especially the freedom to kill Russians. Russia is more motivated to achieve our goals.

There is no "victory "when your cities are turned to ash.

Of course there is victory. Back in WWII The Third EU destroyed 1710 cities and towns and more than 70000 villages in Russia. It was terrible, but definitely acceptable price. And it is still acceptable, given the nature of our enemies. Right now you can't cause the same destruction even in the unrealistic scenario of Mad Butcher scenario (out of blue attack exclusively against sleeping Russian cities without even slightest attempt to defend American population (by counter-force strike, evacuation or sheltering).

Thank you for that beautiful video of the Main Cathedral of the Russian Armed Forces.

My pleasure.

So you are an old school commie atheist?

I'm an atheist, but not commie. I'd rather think about myself as an "liberal, open-minded, pragmatic Patriot".

So what do you see when you watch that cathedral video? A monument to superstition?

No. I see it as a monument to Man. I love aesthetic of monumentalism and, while I'm not religious I do understand that other people may believe in quite weird (from my point of view) things.

I'm a retired engineer, I did calculations every day. What I usually tell atheists is to buy a good "ghost box" and see if that convinces them spirits exist.

I'm not buying such things.

I prefer not to consider what I don't want to happen.

Another superstition?

True we can't always predict each other's behaviours. All we need to predict is that neither of us will hit the launch buttons.

Don't be too provocative and nobody will have a reason to push the button. And to understand what type of provocation another side can consider as "too much", you have to try to understand how do they see the situation, who do they calculate risks, and you must understand that they are not necessarily have the same beliefs as you.

I prefer the previous answer, neither of us should hit the launch button.

Slowly make few steps back and nobody will need to push the button.

 

[kyzr]

The only question is how much you are ready to pay (and how many Americans sacrifice) to achieve your goals? Freedom is not free, especially the freedom to kill Russians. Russia is more motivated to achieve our goals.

No need to talk tough now. Apparently Putin and Trump will meet to discuss the peace deal.

Of course there is victory. Back in WWII The Third EU destroyed 1710 cities and towns and more than 70000 villages in Russia. It was terrible, but definitely acceptable price. And it is still acceptable, given the nature of our enemies. Right now you can't cause the same destruction even in the unrealistic scenario of Mad Butcher scenario (out of blue attack exclusively against sleeping Russian cities without even slightest attempt to defend American population (by counter-force strike, evacuation or sheltering).

There was a very popular movie (Enemy at the Gates) about the battle for Stalingrad. Very tough fighting. WW2 hit Russia very hard. The US would never launch nukes first. Not our style.

I'm an atheist, but not commie. I'd rather think about myself as an "liberal, open-minded, pragmatic Patriot".

Here you would be called a "democrat".

No. I see it as a monument to Man. I love aesthetic of monumentalism and, while I'm not religious I do understand that other people may believe in quite weird (from my point of view) things.

If you buy a "ghost box" it may convince you that spirits do exist.
I also like to see beautiful buildings and museums, even though I have zero artistic talent.

Don't be too provocative and nobody will have a reason to push the button. And to understand what type of provocation another side can consider as "too much", you have to try to understand how do they see the situation, who do they calculate risks, and you must understand that they are not necessarily have the same beliefs as you.

I'm sure the US negotiators are well coached. Zelensky and the EU countries will also need to be consulted. As you said, it may all come to nothing but continued fighting.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

500 34 Does P$t$n know that Republ$cans in Congress can vote to continue to sipply Ukraine with weapons and overtide a Don$Trump veto until Putin is defeated.

Weak-assed Surrender Monkey Trump cant unilaterally switch sides in the middle of a war from defending western liberal democracy to the side that wants to destroy it

WSJ editorial board takes a swipe at 'desperate' Trump 'tilting toward a sellout'

The conservative Wall Street Journal editorial board expressed serious concerns over President Donald Trump's concessions to Russia on Ukraine this week, writing that he "tilts toward a Ukraine sellout."In recent days, Trump — who has cozied up with Russian President Vladimir Putin since the...

www.rawstory.com

The conservative Wall Street Journal editorial board expressed serious concerns over President Donald Trump's concessions to Russia on Ukraine this week, writing that he "tilts toward a Ukraine sellout."

In recent days, Trump — who has cozied up with Russian President Vladimir Putin since the Kremlin interfered in the 2016 presidential election — has backed off the longtime stance the U.S. has held in solidarity with Europe to protect Ukraine from the yearslong, brutal Russian invasion, falsely suggesting Ukraine started the war and offering up "peace" proposals that one-sidedly give all concessions to Russia.

 

[Mac1958]

The first thing trump does is to lift sanctions. He owes it to his buddy, Poootin.

We're literally watching the formation of a New World Order, right in front of us, in real time.

And Trump actually thinks he'll be equal partners with Putin, or better. All he's doing is saving Putin's ass and opening the European door for him.

Incredible.

 

[CowboyTed]

We're literally watching the formation of a New World Order, right in front of us, in real time.

And Trump actually thinks he'll be equal partners with Putin, or better. All he's doing is saving Putin's ass and opening the European door for him.

Incredible.

Mac,

Trump is preparing to leave NATO... As soon as he is gone Ukraine will be let in...
I don't think EU can accept what Trump is doing... Their member's populations are willing to pay to finish this...

Effectively Russia is on its knees...

EU take out all Anti Aircraft.
Take Air Supremacy
Bomb a corridor to Mariupol...
Take out the Crimea bridge and port...
This cuts off Crimea and South Ukraine from Russia, It becomes a siege, the supply chain dries out and soldiers just surrender just to stop the endless drone attacks,

 

[Mac1958]

Mac,

Trump is preparing to leave NATO... As soon as he is gone Ukraine will be let in...
I don't think EU can accept what Trump is doing... Their member's populations are willing to pay to finish this...

Effectively Russia is on its knees...

EU take out all Anti Aircraft.
Take Air Supremacy
Bomb a corridor to Mariupol...
Take out the Crimea bridge and port...
This cuts off Crimea and South Ukraine from Russia, It becomes a siege, the supply chain dries out and soldiers just surrender just to stop the endless drone attacks,

I've been watching a lot of commentary from over there, and I've seen zero indication that they're going to just roll over like Trump. They know that Russia's shitty military is largely decimated and that his shitty economy is on the edge.

They don't need overwhelming force, but a solid defense may be enough.

They are stunned that Trump stabbed them in the back like this, so my assumption is that they've only been paying so much attention over the years. We've been seeing this the whole time. Now THEY have to deal with it. They may be ready to.

Here's hoping.

 

[JimH52]

I've been watching a lot of commentary from over there, and I've seen zero indication that they're going to just roll over like Trump. They know that Russia's shitty military is largely decimated and that his shitty economy is on the edge.

They don't need overwhelming force, but a solid defense may be enough.

They are stunned that Trump stabbed them in the back like this, so my assumption is that they've only been paying so much attention over the years. We've been seeing this the whole time. Now THEY have to deal with it. They may be ready to.

Here's hoping.

The EU needs to step up. Because the US under trump is not going to raise a hand against his buddy Vlad.

 

[Mac1958]

The EU needs to step up. Because the US under trump is not going to raise a hand against his buddy Vlad.

Trump actually thinks that Putin admires and likes him. He thinks they're pals. Putin knows that using Trump is his best shot at survival.

The EU knows what Putin is. He can't flatter them into submission.

 

[struth]

The first thing trump does is to lift sanctions. He owes it to his buddy, Poootin.

You are confused the first thing xiden did was lift sanctions and allow Putin to build his pipeline to fund his war, then xiden froze the trump lethal aid so that xiden could invade easily

Xiden wanted the war, he used it as a money laundering scam for his criminal family, it’s why they needed blanket pardons for their crimes against the united states

Trump is ending their blood money pipeline