keys to the kingdom

[hobelim]

The Bread of the Presence

Bread that came down from heaven and became the flesh of Jesus are WORDS from God. Divine teaching. God is present in those WORDS, the flesh of Jesus, which cannot be made by human hands. See? Catholic, Protestant, whats the difference? You are both wrong.

Is that too hard for a person who claims that spiritual life can be eaten to believe?

 

[Meriweather]

Bread

And that brings us back to Carlo Acutis, whom you don't care to discuss. Have a blessed day, hobelim.

 

[hobelim]

And that brings us back to Carlo Acutis, whom you don't care to discuss.

US? No it doesn't. Patron saint of the internet advocated the eucharist? lol The truth is my WORDS put you under the spotlight to make an eternally fateful decision. Choose carefully.

If Carlo, like the Jesuit I knew and believe was a saint, survived to see this day come, he would have repented having lived his entire life hoping to one day "see" Jesus face to face.

Have a blessed day, hobelim.

Thanks! You too! I will pray for you as you linger in the Valley of Decision.

 

[hadit]

Wrong again.

Catholics don't worship communion artifacts, whatever that is. They believe that bread made by human hands becomes the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ and worship and eat that for spiritual life. If you don't believe me read the catechism written for 8 year olds.

Quote where the catechism says to worship the bread and wine. Also quote where it says that Communion grants spiritual life.

 

[hadit]

You are just wrong. If you don't believe me ask a catholic.

Okay, there are two posting on this thread. Would one of you care to address this? Obviously, he's going to take your word for it, because he's citing you as authorities on the subject.

 

[Meriweather]

Quote where the catechism says to worship the bread and wine. Also quote where it says that Communion grants spiritual life.

This site may assist you.

In Brief

www.vatican.va

 

[Meriweather]

Okay, there are two posting on this thread. Would one of you care to address this? Obviously, he's going to take your word for it, because he's citing you as authorities on the subject.

Catholics believe Christ is present, body, blood, divinity in the Eucharist. The belief stems from Jesus' own words: This is my body, this is my blood.

Many of his followers left him saying this is a hard teaching. Who can accept it. Jesus did not call after them, "Hey, wait! I was speaking symbolically, metaphorically, let me explain further." Instead he turned to the Apostles and asked, "Will you also leave me?"

I don't know if you Googled Carlo Acutis. He researched all miracles showing the physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Catholics take seriously, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will not have life within you." Keep in mind some accused early Christians of cannibalism. That is how strongly they took Christ's words.

 

[hobelim]

Many of his followers left him saying this is a hard teaching. Who can accept it. Jesus did not call after them, "Hey, wait! I was speaking symbolically, metaphorically, let me explain further." Instead he turned to the Apostles and asked, "Will you also leave me?"

He asked them that after he explained the metaphor in John 6:63, "The Spirit alone gives life. The flesh is of no avail. The WORDS that I have spoken to you are both Spirit and life." Then they confirmed their belief in his explanation after he asked if they would leave him too. And Simon Peter replied, " Lord to whom shall we go? Your WORDS are WORDS of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God." John 6:68

"The Holy One of God" being the prophet, a Jewish man, described in Deuteronomy 18:18

_____________________________________________________________________________


"He censures those who understood our Lord's words after the letter, (literally), as if they were to eat the carnal body. He expounds the spiritual thing which gives life as to be understood by the text: "the WORDS that I speak unto you, are both spirit and life."

His WORD is the life-giving principle, therefore he called his flesh by the same appellation, so we are to "devour Him with the ear, ruminate on Him with the understanding, and digest Him by faith."

Tertullian. Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III

 

[ding]

Wrong. For if a person sins willfully after they have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for their sins, only a terrifying expectation of judgment.

God forgave Israel for idolatry too many times to count, as Scripture portrays His forgiveness as a continual response to their repeated repentance. However, the Bible highlights 6 distinct cycles of idolatry, punishment, and forgiveness in the Book of Judges. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

The famous six-cycle pattern in Judges includes:

1. Mesopotamians: Oppression for 8 years, forgiven after crying out to God (Judges 3:7-11)
2. Moabites: Oppression for 18 years, forgiven when Ehud delivered them (Judges 3:12-30)
3. Canaanites: Oppression for 20 years, forgiven through Deborah and Barak (Judges 4-5)
4. Midianites: Oppression for 7 years, forgiven through Gideon (Judges 6-8)
5. Ammonites: Oppression for 18 years, forgiven through Jephthah (Judges 10-12)
6. Philistines: Oppression for 40 years, forgiven through Samson (Judges 13-16) [1, 2, 3]

Outside of these, God forgave major national incidents of idolatry, such as the worship of the Golden Calf in the wilderness (Exodus 32) and the eras of the idolatrous kings once Israel split into two kingdoms. Ultimately, the biblical narrative emphasizes that God's grace continually outpaced the nation's rebellion. [1, 2, 3]

 

[Meriweather]

He asked them that after he explained the metaphor in John 6:63, "The Spirit alone gives life. The flesh is of no avail. The WORDS that I have spoken to you are both Spirit and life." Then they confirmed their belief in his explanation after he asked if they would leave him too. And Simon Peter replied, " Lord to whom shall we go? Your WORDS are WORDS of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God." John 6:68

"The Holy One of God" being the prophet, a Jewish man, described in Deuteronomy 18:18

_____________________________________________________________________________


"He censures those who understood our Lord's words after the letter, (literally), as if they were to eat the carnal body. He expounds the spiritual thing which gives life as to be understood by the text: "the WORDS that I speak unto you, are both spirit and life."

His WORD is the life-giving principle, therefore he called his flesh by the same appellation, so we are to "devour Him with the ear, ruminate on Him with the understanding, and digest Him by faith."

Tertullian. Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III

What did early Christians practice to the point they were accused of cannibalism? Perhaps try what one early follower said: I believe! Help my unbelief!

I get that your point is to talk your (and everyone else's) way out of accepting Jesus words as literal. Have you ever experienced the Eucharist?

 

[hobelim]

I get that your point is to talk your (and everyone else's) way out of accepting Jesus words as literal.

Would you believe me if Jesus himself said that he was not being literal?

"I have spoken of these matters using figures of speech, but soon I will stop speaking figuratively and will tell you plainly all about the Father.." John 16:25

Jesus said this after all that nutty talk about giving sight to the blind, raising the dead, curing the paralyzed, the lame jumping around, bread from heaven, and eat my flesh etc.

I get it that you are doing your best to not see what is right in front of your nose. But damn.

 

[Ace Nova]

Would you believe me if Jesus himself said that he was not being literal?

"I have spoken of these matters using figures of speech, but soon I will stop speaking figuratively and will tell you plainly all about the Father.." John 16:25

Jesus said this after all that nutty talk about giving sight to the blind, raising the dead, curing the paralyzed, the lame jumping around, bread from heaven, and eat my flesh etc.

He was referring to his parables - not his works.

John 10:37:

“If I am not performing
the works of my Father,
then do not believe me.
However, if I am doing them,
then even if you do not believe me,
at least believe my works,
so that you may realize and understand
that the Father is in me
and I am in the Father.”


He essentially said that if you do not believe (or understand) what I have been teaching you then believe what you see with your own eyes - (his works.) So if they did not understand his message, his teachings or his parables - they should understand and believe his works.

 

[ding]

He asked them that after he explained the metaphor in John 6:63, "The Spirit alone gives life. The flesh is of no avail. The WORDS that I have spoken to you are both Spirit and life." Then they confirmed their belief in his explanation after he asked if they would leave him too. And Simon Peter replied, " Lord to whom shall we go? Your WORDS are WORDS of eternal life. We have faith and know that you are the Holy One of God." John 6:68

"The Holy One of God" being the prophet, a Jewish man, described in Deuteronomy 18:18

_____________________________________________________________________________


"He censures those who understood our Lord's words after the letter, (literally), as if they were to eat the carnal body. He expounds the spiritual thing which gives life as to be understood by the text: "the WORDS that I speak unto you, are both spirit and life."

His WORD is the life-giving principle, therefore he called his flesh by the same appellation, so we are to "devour Him with the ear, ruminate on Him with the understanding, and digest Him by faith."

Tertullian. Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III

Sophistry.

 

[ding]

Would you believe me if Jesus himself said that he was not being literal?

"I have spoken of these matters using figures of speech, but soon I will stop speaking figuratively and will tell you plainly all about the Father.." John 16:25

Jesus said this after all that nutty talk about giving sight to the blind, raising the dead, curing the paralyzed, the lame jumping around, bread from heaven, and eat my flesh etc.

Taking verses out of context is sophistry.

 

[Meriweather]

Would you believe me

hobelim, no one feels the love. God Is...and...God is love. He meets us where we are and from there draws us closer. He doesn't push people away.

 

[hobelim]

God is love. He meets us where we are and from there draws us closer. He doesn't push people away.

I heard that God hardened the heart of Pharaoh and abandons many to their folly hiding his face and pushing them away. But thats just what I heard until I started having conversations with believers who have never seen or heard a single word from God in their entire lives eating Jesus flesh and drinking Jesus blood on Sundays, whether literally or figuratively.

Now I know.

 

[hobelim]

He meets us where we are

"US" again? Copra sanctum! If y'all are in hell God will never meet you there. Forget about "US", You must rise from your grave as an individual and ascend into heaven to meet God.

There is no God in hell.

Thats why you've never seen or heard a single peep from God or Jesus for your entire life.

 

[hadit]

He was referring to his parables - not his works.

John 10:37:

“If I am not performing
the works of my Father,
then do not believe me.
However, if I am doing them,
then even if you do not believe me,
at least believe my works,
so that you may realize and understand
that the Father is in me
and I am in the Father.”


He essentially said that if you do not believe (or understand) what I have been teaching you then believe what you see with your own eyes - (his works.) So if they did not understand his message, his teachings or his parables - they should understand and believe his works.

You were not supposed to think of that.

 

[hadit]

hobelim, no one feels the love. God Is...and...God is love. He meets us where we are and from there draws us closer. He doesn't push people away.

That is true. Jesus did not sit back and wait for the lost to come to Him, He went to them and met them right where they were. He got in trouble for doing it, too. This guy just doesn't know what he's talking about and invents things on the fly to fit his narrative. There is nothing he won't pervert, ignore, or outright deny when confronted with truth.

 

[Ace Nova]

There is no God in hell.

Strictly my opinion and philosophically:

One could say God is needed in the nether world as much as anywhere else but souls may be unaware.

Mark 6:

4. Then Jesus said to them, “A prophet is always treated with honor except in his hometown, and among relatives, and in his own house.”