Keep that Atheism to Yourself

[PratchettFan]

It's not.

If a coach wants to invite a team to say a prayer so what?

You don't have to say it. I never did. My coach's religious beliefs never influenced me.

He is not forcing people to participate he is merely exercising his beliefs and there can be no law passed that prohibits him from doing so.

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

I admit it has been a couple of years, but when I first went on my HS team I didn't join in the prayer the first time. I was then counseled by the coach that it was ok if I didn't believe, but when the team was in the circle with their head bowed, then everyone was in. If I wasn't in the circle, I wasn't part of the team. If I wasn't part of the team, I wasn't on the team. So I did the next three years in the circle. It didn't change anything, but the coach has any number of ways to require things.

I do not think it appropriate for a coach to lead a prayer.

You could have stood with the team and not recited the prayer. that's what i did. I never felt compelled to believe or say a prayer. Why would anyone?

I abstained from the pledge of allegiance as well. There were never any reprisals or unfavorable consequences.

Oh yes, that's what I did. Nonetheless, it is inappropriate for the coach - a governmental authority figure - to be leading a prayer for students. It's no different than a teacher leader a prayer in a classroom. I don't even think it appropriate for the coach to join in, but that is debatable.

I get what you are saying. I think far too much is made of this. I have no problem with displays in the park, 10 commandments in the courtroom, people handing out pamphlets on street corners. In a free society you are going to be exposed to things you don't agree with and the best thing to do is grow a skin.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The players depend on the coach for playing time. A coach requiring a team Lords Prayer is in a unique position to influence his players whether they want to say it or not.

Would parents tolerate a coach who insisted his players recite that there is no Jesus?

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

I admit it has been a couple of years, but when I first went on my HS team I didn't join in the prayer the first time. I was then counseled by the coach that it was ok if I didn't believe, but when the team was in the circle with their head bowed, then everyone was in. If I wasn't in the circle, I wasn't part of the team. If I wasn't part of the team, I wasn't on the team. So I did the next three years in the circle. It didn't change anything, but the coach has any number of ways to require things.

I do not think it appropriate for a coach to lead a prayer.

You could have stood with the team and not recited the prayer. that's what i did. I never felt compelled to believe or say a prayer. Why would anyone?

I abstained from the pledge of allegiance as well. There were never any reprisals or unfavorable consequences.

Oh yes, that's what I did. Nonetheless, it is inappropriate for the coach - a governmental authority figure - to be leading a prayer for students. It's no different than a teacher leader a prayer in a classroom. I don't even think it appropriate for the coach to join in, but that is debatable.

I get what you are saying. I think far too much is made of this. I have no problem with displays in the park, 10 commandments in the courtroom, people handing out pamphlets on street corners. In a free society you are going to be exposed to things you don't agree with and the best thing to do is grow a skin.

I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.
I hate to think that as a teenagers we might have been more enlightened than people are today when it comes to tolerating the beliefs of others.

 

[PratchettFan]

Where did I say it would be required? You might want to slow down and follow the words with your finger. Move your lips if you have to then maybe you'll understand what i said.

If the coach wanted to say a prayer he should be able to. The players do not have to comply. I never did when I played and the coaches said a prayer.

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

I admit it has been a couple of years, but when I first went on my HS team I didn't join in the prayer the first time. I was then counseled by the coach that it was ok if I didn't believe, but when the team was in the circle with their head bowed, then everyone was in. If I wasn't in the circle, I wasn't part of the team. If I wasn't part of the team, I wasn't on the team. So I did the next three years in the circle. It didn't change anything, but the coach has any number of ways to require things.

I do not think it appropriate for a coach to lead a prayer.

You could have stood with the team and not recited the prayer. that's what i did. I never felt compelled to believe or say a prayer. Why would anyone?

I abstained from the pledge of allegiance as well. There were never any reprisals or unfavorable consequences.

Oh yes, that's what I did. Nonetheless, it is inappropriate for the coach - a governmental authority figure - to be leading a prayer for students. It's no different than a teacher leader a prayer in a classroom. I don't even think it appropriate for the coach to join in, but that is debatable.

I get what you are saying. I think far too much is made of this. I have no problem with displays in the park, 10 commandments in the courtroom, people handing out pamphlets on street corners. In a free society you are going to be exposed to things you don't agree with and the best thing to do is grow a skin.

I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.
I hate to think that as a teenagers we might have been more enlightened than people are today when it comes to tolerating the beliefs of others.

Nonetheless, that is what the coach is. A paid representative of the government no different than any other teacher. And when my coach essentially ordered me to participate in rituals I did not believe in, that was not tolerating the beliefs of others.

 

[JoeB131]

What offends me is that they are constantly trying to shove their shit down our throats.

Today it's reciting a prayer on my tax dime, tomorrow it's making me say that fucking prayer.

You gotta stop these fuckers in their tracks, don't give them an inch.

What offends me is people who think they are the only one's who deserve the right to express themselves because they are "offended". But you go right ahead, because even theocrats have the right to push their agenda. Don't you just love freedom?

Guy, if Atheism is a religion, Off is a TV channel.

 

[JoeB131]

Who are you guys?

I have already said I counted myself an atheist. Maybe you should slow down when you read. It's OK to follow along with your finger and move your lips. We won't laugh at you.

Guy, I could care less what you claim. YOu'd be happy to let the religious whacks push their shit on the public square.

 

[PostmodernProph]

atheism is an unplugged TV.......

 

[JoeB131]

Which means the government can't make you go to church, or pay a tithe, or, yes, even host a service on your property. It doesn't prevent a religion from marching down your street.

It does prevent them from puttin their crosses or nativity scenes on public land or preaching their superstitious horseshit to children at schools.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Of course a coach can't "require" players to say the Lords Prayer with him

But players who depend on him for playing time would feel pressured to go along. It is inappropriate in a school setting

I admit it has been a couple of years, but when I first went on my HS team I didn't join in the prayer the first time. I was then counseled by the coach that it was ok if I didn't believe, but when the team was in the circle with their head bowed, then everyone was in. If I wasn't in the circle, I wasn't part of the team. If I wasn't part of the team, I wasn't on the team. So I did the next three years in the circle. It didn't change anything, but the coach has any number of ways to require things.

I do not think it appropriate for a coach to lead a prayer.

You could have stood with the team and not recited the prayer. that's what i did. I never felt compelled to believe or say a prayer. Why would anyone?

I abstained from the pledge of allegiance as well. There were never any reprisals or unfavorable consequences.

Oh yes, that's what I did. Nonetheless, it is inappropriate for the coach - a governmental authority figure - to be leading a prayer for students. It's no different than a teacher leader a prayer in a classroom. I don't even think it appropriate for the coach to join in, but that is debatable.

I get what you are saying. I think far too much is made of this. I have no problem with displays in the park, 10 commandments in the courtroom, people handing out pamphlets on street corners. In a free society you are going to be exposed to things you don't agree with and the best thing to do is grow a skin.

I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.
I hate to think that as a teenagers we might have been more enlightened than people are today when it comes to tolerating the beliefs of others.

Nonetheless, that is what the coach is. A paid representative of the government no different than any other teacher. And when my coach essentially ordered me to participate in rituals I did not believe in, that was not tolerating the beliefs of others.

Ordered you?

I do not believe that. If he wanted to pray in proximity to you that is not ordering you. If others wanted to join him that is not ordering you.

You had every right not to recite a prayer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Who are you guys?

I have already said I counted myself an atheist. Maybe you should slow down when you read. It's OK to follow along with your finger and move your lips. We won't laugh at you.

Guy, I could care less what you claim. YOu'd be happy to let the religious whacks push their shit on the public square.

Since it is unconstitutional to pass a law prohibiting them from doing so yes.

You are more than welcome to push your shit on the public square as well.

Unlike you if i do not believe in something I really don't give a shit if someone else does. I have no desire to control everyone.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

SKULL PILOT SAID:

“I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.”

Perhaps not, but as a government employee he is nonetheless subject to Establishment Clause jurisprudence.

 

[PratchettFan]

What offends me is that they are constantly trying to shove their shit down our throats.

Today it's reciting a prayer on my tax dime, tomorrow it's making me say that fucking prayer.

You gotta stop these fuckers in their tracks, don't give them an inch.

What offends me is people who think they are the only one's who deserve the right to express themselves because they are "offended". But you go right ahead, because even theocrats have the right to push their agenda. Don't you just love freedom?

Guy, if Atheism is a religion, Off is a TV channel.

You've already used that bumper sticker. Here's one. If Atheism isn't a religion, then a panda is not a mammal. We can play the non sequitur game all day.

You, however, are a theocrat wannabe and you most definitely treat Atheism as a religion.

 

[PratchettFan]

I admit it has been a couple of years, but when I first went on my HS team I didn't join in the prayer the first time. I was then counseled by the coach that it was ok if I didn't believe, but when the team was in the circle with their head bowed, then everyone was in. If I wasn't in the circle, I wasn't part of the team. If I wasn't part of the team, I wasn't on the team. So I did the next three years in the circle. It didn't change anything, but the coach has any number of ways to require things.

I do not think it appropriate for a coach to lead a prayer.

You could have stood with the team and not recited the prayer. that's what i did. I never felt compelled to believe or say a prayer. Why would anyone?

I abstained from the pledge of allegiance as well. There were never any reprisals or unfavorable consequences.

Oh yes, that's what I did. Nonetheless, it is inappropriate for the coach - a governmental authority figure - to be leading a prayer for students. It's no different than a teacher leader a prayer in a classroom. I don't even think it appropriate for the coach to join in, but that is debatable.

I get what you are saying. I think far too much is made of this. I have no problem with displays in the park, 10 commandments in the courtroom, people handing out pamphlets on street corners. In a free society you are going to be exposed to things you don't agree with and the best thing to do is grow a skin.

I never thought of my football coach as a governmental authority figure.
I hate to think that as a teenagers we might have been more enlightened than people are today when it comes to tolerating the beliefs of others.

Nonetheless, that is what the coach is. A paid representative of the government no different than any other teacher. And when my coach essentially ordered me to participate in rituals I did not believe in, that was not tolerating the beliefs of others.

Ordered you?

I do not believe that. If he wanted to pray in proximity to you that is not ordering you. If others wanted to join him that is not ordering you.

You had every right not to recite a prayer.

The choice was very clear. Participate in the ritual or be gone. I did not have a choice if I wanted to play. How is that not an order?

 

[bodecea]

It seems you have a better grasp on the concept than I do, PF

So I have a question for you. Let say Students decided to form a prayer group in a public school. It is led and organized by the students and no school employee is aiding them.

What do you think the school or school board would do to such a group?

They go on all the time...Prayer around the Flagpole or something like that.

 

[bodecea]

What offends me is that they are constantly trying to shove their shit down our throats.

Today it's reciting a prayer on my tax dime, tomorrow it's making me say that fucking prayer.

You gotta stop these fuckers in their tracks, don't give them an inch.

What offends me is people who think they are the only one's who deserve the right to express themselves because they are "offended". But you go right ahead, because even theocrats have the right to push their agenda. Don't you just love freedom?

Guy, if Atheism is a religion, Off is a TV channel.

You've already used that bumper sticker. Here's one. If Atheism isn't a religion, then a panda is not a mammal. We can play the non sequitur game all day.

You, however, are a theocrat wannabe and you most definitely treat Atheism as a religion.

So the absence of heat (cold) is heat? The absence of light (dark) is light?

 

[bodecea]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

Well, we should close the public schools tomorrow.

Got a problem with the FLOTUS telling American kids what to eat?

That is a prime example of personal belief being forced on to others.

Do you object?

Oh? Kids were FORCED to eat what the FLOTUS said? You want to go with that?

 

[HUGGY]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

You may not employ Atheism at school sanctioned events, you may only discuss it amongst yourselves. All beliefs must be recognized but yours. You aren't allowed to publicly express a belief that is offensive to others on our property. Likewise, you cannot spread promotional material and hold demonstrations on the campuses of colleges that receive government grants; henceforth, your right to free speech is inconsequential. You cannot use terms unique to your beliefs. You won't be allowed to wear t-shirts that say "there are no gods" or "There is no God." Furthermore, any symbolism related to such a belief may not be used, nor be sanctioned by school officials.

As it relates to you, the Constitutional right to free expression does not apply while you tread the halls of a schoolhouse.

Those who erect any monuments paying homage to Atheism on our property will be forced to tear them down. We support diversity, and are not behooved to show partiality to one belief or another. Well, that is except for you.

Sound familiar? I bet a lot of Atheists would react in a similar manner as Christians do today if they were arbitrarily denied the ability to share the beliefs with others, or openly practice them while being a member of an educational institution. Most likely, they wouldn't like it if they were targeted time after time for what they believe.

The thing you ignore while attempting to compare religion to people that know gods and fairies and santa clause are not real is that make believe is stupid...people that don't believe in imaginary entities are smarter than you.

There are still more stupid people than smart people but that is changing with the recent inventions of the internet and high capability telephones.

All that blabbering about how atheism is a religion and other desperate word tricks of equal status are proof of the weakness of your position.

Building huge cathederals used to impress weak minded simple people. Now men construct buildings a hundred times larger in the face of your gods. Then simple minded men hopped up on the propaganda of a religion not yours flew airplanes built by men into the man made buildings and the buildings fell down. Something like THAT in the past would have been seen as acts of gods. No one speaks of 9/11 as legendary religious experiences. It's not what we say...it's what we DON'T SAY that is killing religion. Atheists are not killing religion... people in general are just getting smarter.

You can keep trying to compare atheism to religion in an attempt to make a case for your gods but your words fail. Eventually all make believe fails. You can only sell santa clause to little children or people with minds like little children.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That^^^

Excellent post, Huggy.

Crystal Cathedral in Southern California went bankrupt.
What would Jesus do? Cut food stamps? Beg for double-tithing?
That's what Schuller did.

How "christian" is that?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

That^^^

Excellent post, Huggy.

Crystal Cathedral in Southern California went bankrupt.
What would Jesus do? Cut food stamps? Beg for double-tithing?
That's what Schuller did.

How "christian" is that?

Actually, what he did was sell the Crystal Cathedral to the Catholic Church.

Soon, it will open and be consecrated as "Christ Cathedral".

That's one of the biggest pipe organs in the world, by the way.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That^^^

Excellent post, Huggy.

Crystal Cathedral in Southern California went bankrupt.
What would Jesus do? Cut food stamps? Beg for double-tithing?
That's what Schuller did.

How "christian" is that?

Actually, what he did was sell the Crystal Cathedral to the Catholic Church.

Soon, it will open and be consecrated as "Christ Cathedral".

That's one of the biggest pipe organs in the world, by the way.

True - both.

But Schuller did ask for double tithing.

Which, on the face of it, I don't necessarily disagree with. If they want it, they've got to pay for it.

 

[NoNukes]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

BINGO.

So, keep your religion out of our faces and all will be well.

The 1st amendment does not require religion to be hidden in the closet.

Nor atheism. But believers sure are scared by us, because we are the ones who make sense.