Proof in writing that this country was not founded on any religion.

[The Duke]

All the conservative types are always talking about a christian nation and christian values, well it turns out that this isn't and never was a christian nation, at least according to the authors of the Tripoli treaty.

It states very clearly that the nation is not in any was founded on the christian religion in the words of John Adams himself.

You would think that this would remove all doubt, but as the short thread on the same subject that was so helpfully closed showed us, there are still plenty of folks who will argue the point.

Tell us, why do you think they would write this if it's not true?


View attachment 946109

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Christianity and our founding fathers 240319 {post•426}. Leo123 Mar’24 Scaoffs: You seem to be bent on hatred for America and all it stands for. lvvnnn 240319 Scaoff00426

Why did you attack me when you agree with me that the founding of America had nothing to do with the belief that Jesus died on the Cross for the atonement of original sin?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Nope, I never said America is a Christian nation.

That’s great. You take no umbrage with that which follows and precisely that which is presented in bold:

What makes a person qualified to be a Christian when you claim it is true that America was founded by Christians?

In 1776 the majority of Christians on earth were Catholic. The Catholic Church founded Christianity and that Christian Church served for centuries as the potent mind control enforcement agency for the European hereditary system of government that was entirely based upon the notion that royalty is given sanction to rule by Divine right,

In 1776 most Christian’s did not consider Protestants to be Christians. The Catholic Church had nothing to do with the founding of America. The Protestants believe the same thing about the divinity of Jesus and the story of the Cross of Christ and they also served as the potent mind control enforcement agency for the European hereditary system of government.

It is more realistic to say truthfully based upon historical facts that America was founded by revolutionary intellectuals who decided the Christian Church could not be trusted to protect liberty of conscience for the law abiding citizenry of the new experimental nation based on self governance / no more divine rights based upon the heredity of God’s chosen families or nations,

 

[Frankeneinstein]

All the conservative types are always talking about a christian nation and christian values, well it turns out that this isn't and never was a christian nation, at least according to the authors of the Tripoli treaty.

It states very clearly that the nation is not in any was founded on the christian religion in the words of John Adams himself.

You would think that this would remove all doubt, but as the short thread on the same subject that was so helpfully closed showed us, there are still plenty of folks who will argue the point.

Tell us, why do you think they would write this if it's not true?


View attachment 946109

Who wrote that? ^

All the conservative types are always talking about a christian nation and christian values, well it turns out that this isn't and never was a christian nation, at least according to the authors of the Tripoli treaty.

and who were the authors?

It states very clearly that the nation is not in any was founded on the christian religion in the words of John Adams himself.

from the information provided in your post the only proof of anything is that Adams was submitting a treaty for "consideration and advice" that was written by someone else.

You would think that this would remove all doubt, but as the short thread on the same subject that was so helpfully closed showed us, there are still plenty of folks who will argue the point.

if it was written or drawn up by or for the signers on the document then it only adds to the doubt and confusion as it does not appear on the surface Admas had anything to do with it.

Tell us, why do you think they would write this if it's not true?

I have no idea what the backstory leading up to the treaty was/is, but one reason would/could be the way religions view each other and the history between them, why did the treaty single out christianity? why did it not say Judaism? Buddhism? Hindi? Shinto? etc.


Crepitus, I am a democrat and an atheist, but one likely reason is that that document standing alone and without context does nothing to convince me that article 11 was anything other than merely a way to dispose of religious concerns in/about America they felt may have been an obstacle to the treaty.

America not being a christian nation is not a problem for me, nor is the claim that it is one.

 

[Leo123]

Who wrote that? ^

and who were the authors?

from the information provided in your post the only proof of anything is that Adams was submitting a treaty for "consideration and advice" that was written by someone else.

if it was written or drawn up by or for the signers on the document then it only adds to the doubt and confusion as it does not appear on the surface Admas had anything to do with it.

I have no idea what the backstory leading up to the treaty was/is, but one reason would/could be the way religions view each other and the history between them, why did the treaty single out christianity? why did it not say Judaism? Buddhism? Hindi? Shinto? etc.


Crepitus, I am a democrat and an atheist, but one likely reason is that that document standing alone and without context does nothing to convince me that article 11 was anything other than merely a way to dispose of religious concerns in/about America they felt may have been an obstacle to the treaty.

America not being a christian nation is not a problem for me, nor is the claim that it is one.

America was founded by folks with Judeo Christian morals and values who did not want a State church.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

America not being a christian nation is not a problem for me, nor is the claim that it is one.

It only matters if the historical truth matters to you that it is realistic to say truthfully based upon historical facts that America was founded by revolutionary intellectuals who decided the Christian Church could not be trusted to protect liberty of conscience for the law abiding citizenry of the new experimental nation based on self governance / no more divine rights based upon the heredity of God’s chosen families or nations.

In 1776 we the people declared Independence from centuries of Christian based authoritarian government.

In 2024 authoritarian Christian government hopes to take over by ballot - the leaders in favor of Christian authoritarianism are pictured believe

It is the religion of the great almighty desert God of Abraham and the morality of the white Christian nationalists depicted in the photo below laying hands on their beloved ‘baby fetus savior’ who alone can establish the principles of a Biblical Worldview upon which freedom can securely stand except for pregnant women.


Republicans fail to make any rational argument why society must force full term gestation on all women. 240525 {post•748}

945754 inserted by NFBW Vrftma00748. Faith leaders pray over President Donald Trump during a 'Evangelicals for Trump' campaign event held at the King Jesus International Ministry on January 03, 2020 in Miami, Florida. (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

 

[whutTHEYsay]

America was founded by folks with Judeo Christian morals and values who did not want a State church.

The “folks“ in 1776 may or may not have been born again, evangelical, fundamentalist, Christians with a biblical worldview but it’s likely that about eight out of 10 we’re not during the American Revolution.

The “folks“ that make up today’s MAGA Republican white Christian nationalist Republican Oarty Includes about one third of it’s base who are these born again, evangelical, fundamentalist, Christians with a biblical worldview who falsely want to take America back to a time when the likes of them were a vast majority, and God was pleased with HIS nation. It’s a total fallacy.

 

[Leo123]

The “folks“ in 1776 may or may not have been born again, evangelical, fundamentalist, Christians with a biblical worldview but it’s likely that about eight out of 10 we’re not during the American Revolution.

The “folks“ that make up today’s MAGA Republican white Christian nationalist Republican Oarty Includes about one third of it’s base who are these born again, evangelical, fundamentalist, Christians with a biblical worldview who falsely want to take America back to a time when the likes of them were a vast majority, and God was pleased with HIS nation. It’s a total fallacy.

Your post is a total fallacy.

 

[Leo123]

It only matters if the historical truth matters to you that it is realistic to say truthfully based upon historical facts that America was founded by revolutionary intellectuals who decided the Christian Church could not be trusted to protect liberty of conscience for the law abiding citizenry of the new experimental nation based on self governance / no more divine rights based upon the heredity of God’s chosen families or nations.

In 1776 we the people declared Independence from centuries of Christian based authoritarian government.

In 2024 authoritarian Christian government hopes to take over by ballot - the leaders in favor of Christian authoritarianism are pictured believe

It is the religion of the great almighty desert God of Abraham and the morality of the white Christian nationalists depicted in the photo below laying hands on their beloved ‘baby fetus savior’ who alone can establish the principles of a Biblical Worldview upon which freedom can securely stand except for pregnant women.


Republicans fail to make any rational argument why society must force full term gestation on all women. 240525 {post•748}

945754 inserted by NFBW Vrftma00748. Faith leaders pray over President Donald Trump during a 'Evangelicals for Trump' campaign event held at the King Jesus International Ministry on January 03, 2020 in Miami, Florida. (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

Why would a woman (outside of health and rape) want to kill their baby? Women can CHOOSE to let a penis into their vagina. What are you saying? Women are just stupid? Don't they know where babies come from?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Your post is a total fallacy.

Why. What is not accurately stated. You need more than that.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why would a woman (outside of health and rape) want to kill their baby?

What harm comes to you when they kill their baby while it’s inside their body. Just tell me.

I’m not a woman but I can say a woman might kill her baby so that she is not the one through twentieth out of 100,000 who die every year giving birth but she enjoys having sex as much as as man. So what?

If that’s why; you should just stay the fuck out of her business. No harm comes to you.

Personally, I don’t think she owes you a reason.

Who do you think you are Saint Leo123? ….. the uterus police?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

America was founded by folks with Judeo Christian morals and values who did not want a State church.

The fundamentalist Christians who believed that the God of Abraham wanted the rebellious English colonies to become the New Jerusalem under a Covenant with God. They wanted a state church based upon Jesus Christ being the new nation’s Lord and Savior - a state church mentioned in the Constitution they did not get. So you are incorrect.

 

[Leo123]

What harm comes to you when they kill their baby while it’s inside their body. Just tell me.

I’m not a woman but I can say a woman might kill her baby so that she is not the one through twentieth out of 100,000 who die every year giving birth but she enjoys having sex as much as as man. So what?

If that’s why; you should just stay the fuck out of her business. No harm comes to you.

Personally, I don’t think she owes you a reason.

Who do you think you are Saint Leo123? ….. the uterus police?

You truncated my post. Why would a woman CHOOSE to have naked penis in unprotected vagina type sex and NOT expect to maybe get pregnant when she doesn't want to get pregnant? What is YOUR opinion and please refrain from the 'none of your business' garbage. If you can't control yourself just don't reply. Fatherless children are a problem for everyone as cited by many experts. Why would a woman risk it when contraception is readily available or, she could just refrain. The TRUTH is that men and women are different and women have much more risk in having sex compared to men and it seems many don't really care. It's the children that lose.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why would a woman CHOOSE to have naked penis in unprotected vagina type sex and NOT expect to maybe get pregnant when she doesn't want to get pregnant?

I answered that. Because she enjoys sex. Maybe she was drunk,

Why do you want the government being involved if she accidentally gets pregnant?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Why would a woman (outside of health and rape) want to kill their baby?

Why does she owe you an answer to your question?

 

[Leo123]

I answered that. Because she enjoys sex. Maybe she was drunk,

Why do you want the government being involved if she accidentally gets pregnant?

I never said anything about government. Maybe 'she' is going to regret her decisions. I am simply asking why.....Your answer is fun and alcohol. I think we know who YOU are bud.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I never said anything about government.

So you don’t want state government to ban abortion?

 

[Leo123]

Why does she owe you an answer to your question?

I didn't say anyone owed me anything. Just asking a question. Apparently you would rather have unbridled sex and to Hell with any repercussions. Just kill a developing life for YOUR enjoyment.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Maybe 'she' is going to regret her decisions. I am simply asking why.....Your answer is fun and alcohol. I

No my answers was because she doesn’t want to die. I see you ignored it.

 

[Leo123]

So you don’t want state government to ban abortion?

No! I also think the State should not support it with our tax dollars. I don't give a shit if some skank want's to leave a trail of dead fetuses.