John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[Peach]

Denigrating Christians is no better than denigrating God, and that is a risk, to phrase it mildly.

 

[alang1216]

What amazes me Weatherman2020 is how many theists believe God created this world but are so ignorant of his creation and how he did it.

Surprisingly, more than half of Americans have read little or none of the Bible.

 

[Indeependent]

The NT is a huge crock of shit.

What about the Koran? Vedas? Tripitaka? Wǔ Jīng? Tao Te Ching? Kojiki? Guru Granth Sahib?
Why should anyone believe they know the truth?

Try reading them.
The Koran is post Torah and admits it and is a run on sentence of how to take over the world.
The Vedic and Vedas are pure Greek Mythology.
You should read them.

Why bother, you obviously know God's one true work. Those other 7 billion people are just deluded. Curious that we're supposedly created in His image but we are so clueless when it comes to what he's said.

You are clueless.

 

[Indeependent]

Jesus did not come to condemn people to hell, he came to lead people out of it. People who heard his testimony and rejected it in preference for the the status quo remained behind and condemned themselves.

I like it. Now if we can go from the end to the beginning and the beginning to the end some may get it is instilled with breath. My one question would be in that thousand year period do you think it is the same for all or do you think it could begin at different times for all the different humans? Isn't the eight year the holy period? Are we not rounding the seventh year for many?

"Here lies the test; The light has come into the world, but men preferred darkness to light because their deeds were evil."


When the truth is revealed, blindness becomes a deliberate choice, not an accident of birth, whenever it comes.

Even Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, after living like a brute beast for seven years raised his eyes and saw the power and glory of God reigning supreme over the world of man thousand of years ago..

The part that confuses is past tense. The world does not end neither does seed time and harvest. By the renewing of first adam's mind the second adam comes into play and the path of salvation is laid out through the hosts of heaven in them. By trying to set a firm time period on all souls created in eternity, time and space you would be putting extreme limitations of not only the nature of God's mercy but his ability to insure that not one seed is lost or one child is left behind. Is this not why it is a 'personal relationship' with Jesus Christ?

Let me put it like this. Many people await the tribulation with great fear and loathing, wondering who will be revealed as the antichrist. A cult leader, a politician, a demon? Scary stuff.

When Jesus finally appears to end the tribulation people won't even know that the reign of the antichrist began over a thousand years ago.

Remember? He comes to raise the dead. The dead know nothing.


Whether a person has never heard or never understood a word that Jesus said, and lived out their lives the best they could in the dark, whatever their belief or unbelief, when they die they are judged according to their words and deeds.


Many will receive eternal life anyway.


Those who are judged worthy of the resurrection before they die are no longer subject to judgement, they have already passed from death to life.

Perhaps many are still lost and being chased to where they need to be. Psalms 35:5

The last translation is the only one that comes anywhere near the Hebrew words.

 

[alang1216]

You are clueless.

I have no doubt one of us is.

 

[Indeependent]

You are clueless.

I have no doubt one of us is.

It can't be the atheist who never reads anything.

 

[alang1216]

You are clueless.

I have no doubt one of us is.

It can't be the atheist who never reads anything.

Lack of faith is not an impediment to reading, it is, however, very useful for understanding.

 

[Indeependent]

You are clueless.

I have no doubt one of us is.

It can't be the atheist who never reads anything.

Lack of faith is not an impediment to reading, it is, however, very useful for understanding.

I have no idea what that actually means.
Elaborate.

 

[alang1216]

Lack of faith is not an impediment to reading, it is, however, very useful for understanding.

I have no idea what that actually means.
Elaborate.

I assume you understood the first part. My lack of faith means I I have crystal clear vision, unfiltered by preconceived notions that bias me for or against what I read. Since nothing can conflict with my faith, anything is possible. For example, if you believe in creationism you will not see the evidence for evolution.

 

[godsandmen]

Damn. Reading these religious threads makes me SOOOO glad I'm no longer in that world. Christians are in dire need of studying the Bible using the historical/critical method, rather through the blind eye of faith.

 

[Indeependent]

Lack of faith is not an impediment to reading, it is, however, very useful for understanding.

I have no idea what that actually means.
Elaborate.

I assume you understood the first part. My lack of faith means I I have crystal clear vision, unfiltered by preconceived notions that bias me for or against what I read. Since nothing can conflict with my faith, anything is possible. For example, if you believe in creationism you will not see the evidence for evolution.

Your vision is clouded by your ego.
I have no preconceived ideas when I read anything.
When I read a series of books supposedly based on the prior books and there is no connection in reality, I then know it's not a series of related stories.

 

[alang1216]

I have no preconceived ideas when I read anything.
When I read a series of books supposedly based on the prior books and there is no connection in reality, I then know it's not a series of related stories.

Thanks for proving my point. If you are referring to the Koran (which I assume you read in the original Arabic) your faith informs you that the 'prior books' are accurate so the differences found in the Koran mean it must be incorrect. If you didn't let your preconceived ideas cloud your understanding you might accept the Korans assertion that the 'prior books' are not accurate accounts so God really did send his messenger with an update.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Would you be able to hear the answers if I gave them to you? Or would I be wasting my time trying to explain something that you should be seeking for your self through the spirit in you?

Does truth require faith?

Aren't you another one of self proclaimed atheist on this board?

We are all atheists. You don't believe in Zeus, Vishnu, or any of the other myriad gods that faith have led people to. I just believe in one less god than you do.

"All atheists" in your mind maybe... Faith is required to be patient enough to know that in time truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts that are perpetrated in all sorts of forms whether those are carnal or spiritual in this world and the one to come for those who have not yet learn to be overcomer's of great lies perpetrated by those who remain asleep or who blinded in their own sin.

What about those too young to understand Jesus?
What about all those born before Jesus?
What about people born in the ME, India or China today, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and Muslims, that have never learned or even heard about Jesus?

Excellent question.


What Jesus said at the time, "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin." which implies that those who never heard of him, were too young to understand, or were born and died before he came were also not guilty of sin.

By the time Jesus appeared the truth had been lost to time for a thousand years...

To be guilty of the sin of unbelief, one would have to have heard his testimony which implies understanding, and then rejected it.

By that standard no one alive today has ever heard or understood his teaching.

That too had been lost to time a thousand years before anyone alive today was born.

He would have to reappear and clear things up before anyone would be guilty of the sin of rejecting his testimony.

Refusing to believe in what cannot be rationally explained or understood is not a sin. Thats actually the right way to lead a kosher life.

Patience is an excellent virtue and the Holy Spirit knows when the timing is correct for each and everyone to be fully awakened and even that is a lengthy process. That cloud and veil is there to protect and keep what cannot be seen by a carnally minded human.

So accepting his teachings can occur with human understanding, or knowledge of God? I agree.

Every soul has a start point no matter how small that may be.

"truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts"

And you stand accused of presenting lies and false precepts. Why should anyone, anywhere believe a single word of your magical nonsense? You have not a shred of evidence, and all of it is irrational. You think you can freely and easily discard scientific determinism, as if you have some special license to do so. You freely and easily make sweeping, auhtoritative declarations based on a "divine authority" that YOU present and define. If this goofy rhetoric were presented on ANY other topic , or even any other god, you would agree with every word I just typed. But you think you are special, and deserve some sort of special privilege or consideration. Guess what? Everyone clinging to a magical belief feels EXACTLY the same way. You're not special.

 

[RodISHI]

Would you be able to hear the answers if I gave them to you? Or would I be wasting my time trying to explain something that you should be seeking for your self through the spirit in you?

Does truth require faith?

Aren't you another one of self proclaimed atheist on this board?

We are all atheists. You don't believe in Zeus, Vishnu, or any of the other myriad gods that faith have led people to. I just believe in one less god than you do.

"All atheists" in your mind maybe... Faith is required to be patient enough to know that in time truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts that are perpetrated in all sorts of forms whether those are carnal or spiritual in this world and the one to come for those who have not yet learn to be overcomer's of great lies perpetrated by those who remain asleep or who blinded in their own sin.

What about those too young to understand Jesus?
What about all those born before Jesus?
What about people born in the ME, India or China today, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and Muslims, that have never learned or even heard about Jesus?

Excellent question.


What Jesus said at the time, "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin." which implies that those who never heard of him, were too young to understand, or were born and died before he came were also not guilty of sin.

By the time Jesus appeared the truth had been lost to time for a thousand years...

To be guilty of the sin of unbelief, one would have to have heard his testimony which implies understanding, and then rejected it.

By that standard no one alive today has ever heard or understood his teaching.

That too had been lost to time a thousand years before anyone alive today was born.

He would have to reappear and clear things up before anyone would be guilty of the sin of rejecting his testimony.

Refusing to believe in what cannot be rationally explained or understood is not a sin. Thats actually the right way to lead a kosher life.

Patience is an excellent virtue and the Holy Spirit knows when the timing is correct for each and everyone to be fully awakened and even that is a lengthy process. That cloud and veil is there to protect and keep what cannot be seen by a carnally minded human.

So accepting his teachings can occur with human understanding, or knowledge of God? I agree.

Every soul has a start point no matter how small that may be.

"truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts"

And you stand accused of presenting lies and false precepts. Why should anyone, anywhere believe a single word of your magical nonsense? You have not a shred of evidence, and all of it is irrational.

I have the testimony of what I have been allowed to see and experience in this world and the portions given to me by the Spirit if they do not believe that it becomes their personal problem and they go on living in the darkness. If they do not believe what has already been told to them they probably will not believe what I testify to either. Actually it is already written in the Word that they won't. Yet I will give it anyways as that is what I was born for, for the ones that are the believers.


BTW, the evidence has already been recorded and written into the scrolls, the air and the land for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Denigrating Christians is no better than denigrating God, and that is a risk, to phrase it mildly.

But that's where Christians have a lot of room for improvement. They try to claim that denigrating Christianity is the same as denigrating christians. It's not, they are wrong, and that is THEIR problem, and nobody else's.

Would you be able to hear the answers if I gave them to you? Or would I be wasting my time trying to explain something that you should be seeking for your self through the spirit in you?

Does truth require faith?

Aren't you another one of self proclaimed atheist on this board?

We are all atheists. You don't believe in Zeus, Vishnu, or any of the other myriad gods that faith have led people to. I just believe in one less god than you do.

"All atheists" in your mind maybe... Faith is required to be patient enough to know that in time truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts that are perpetrated in all sorts of forms whether those are carnal or spiritual in this world and the one to come for those who have not yet learn to be overcomer's of great lies perpetrated by those who remain asleep or who blinded in their own sin.

Excellent question.


What Jesus said at the time, "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin." which implies that those who never heard of him, were too young to understand, or were born and died before he came were also not guilty of sin.

By the time Jesus appeared the truth had been lost to time for a thousand years...

To be guilty of the sin of unbelief, one would have to have heard his testimony which implies understanding, and then rejected it.

By that standard no one alive today has ever heard or understood his teaching.

That too had been lost to time a thousand years before anyone alive today was born.

He would have to reappear and clear things up before anyone would be guilty of the sin of rejecting his testimony.

Refusing to believe in what cannot be rationally explained or understood is not a sin. Thats actually the right way to lead a kosher life.

Patience is an excellent virtue and the Holy Spirit knows when the timing is correct for each and everyone to be fully awakened and even that is a lengthy process. That cloud and veil is there to protect and keep what cannot be seen by a carnally minded human.

So accepting his teachings can occur with human understanding, or knowledge of God? I agree.

Every soul has a start point no matter how small that may be.

"truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts"

And you stand accused of presenting lies and false precepts. Why should anyone, anywhere believe a single word of your magical nonsense? You have not a shred of evidence, and all of it is irrational.

I have the testimony of what I have been allowed to see and experience in this world and the portions given to me by the Spirit if they do not believe that it becomes their personal problem and they go on living in the darkness. If they do not believe what has already been told to them they probably will not believe what I testify to either. Actually it is already written in the Word that they won't. Yet I will give it anyways as that is what I was born for, for the ones that are the believers.

"I have the testimony of what I have been allowed to see and experience in this world "


So says EVERY liar. And so says EVERY religious person, no matter the religion. Again, why should anyone, anywhere believe a single word you say? In fact, it makes much more sense to believe you are lying or deluded, than it does to accept any of it as true.

 

[RodISHI]

Denigrating Christians is no better than denigrating God, and that is a risk, to phrase it mildly.

But that's where Christians have a lot of room for improvement. They try to claim that denigrating Christianity is the same as denigrating christians. It's not, they are wrong, and that is THEIR problem, and nobody else's.

Would you be able to hear the answers if I gave them to you? Or would I be wasting my time trying to explain something that you should be seeking for your self through the spirit in you?

Does truth require faith?

Aren't you another one of self proclaimed atheist on this board?

We are all atheists. You don't believe in Zeus, Vishnu, or any of the other myriad gods that faith have led people to. I just believe in one less god than you do.

"All atheists" in your mind maybe... Faith is required to be patient enough to know that in time truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts that are perpetrated in all sorts of forms whether those are carnal or spiritual in this world and the one to come for those who have not yet learn to be overcomer's of great lies perpetrated by those who remain asleep or who blinded in their own sin.

Patience is an excellent virtue and the Holy Spirit knows when the timing is correct for each and everyone to be fully awakened and even that is a lengthy process. That cloud and veil is there to protect and keep what cannot be seen by a carnally minded human.

So accepting his teachings can occur with human understanding, or knowledge of God? I agree.

Every soul has a start point no matter how small that may be.

"truth will always overcome and prevail over lies and false precepts"

And you stand accused of presenting lies and false precepts. Why should anyone, anywhere believe a single word of your magical nonsense? You have not a shred of evidence, and all of it is irrational.

I have the testimony of what I have been allowed to see and experience in this world and the portions given to me by the Spirit if they do not believe that it becomes their personal problem and they go on living in the darkness. If they do not believe what has already been told to them they probably will not believe what I testify to either. Actually it is already written in the Word that they won't. Yet I will give it anyways as that is what I was born for, for the ones that are the believers.

"I have the testimony of what I have been allowed to see and experience in this world "


So says EVERY liar. And so says EVERY religious person, no matter the religion. Again, why should anyone, anywhere believe a single word you say? In fact, it makes much more sense to believe you are lying or deluded, than it does to accept any of it as true.

I just told you but you cannot hear it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Denigrating Christians is no better than denigrating God, and that is a risk, to phrase it mildly.

But that's where Christians have a lot of room for improvement. They try to claim that denigrating Christianity is the same as denigrating christians. It's not, they are wrong, and that is THEIR problem, and nobody else's.

 

[Indeependent]

I have no preconceived ideas when I read anything.
When I read a series of books supposedly based on the prior books and there is no connection in reality, I then know it's not a series of related stories.

Thanks for proving my point. If you are referring to the Koran (which I assume you read in the original Arabic) your faith informs you that the 'prior books' are accurate so the differences found in the Koran mean it must be incorrect. If you didn't let your preconceived ideas cloud your understanding you might accept the Korans assertion that the 'prior books' are not accurate accounts so God really did send his messenger with an update.

Be honest...
Have you ever read the Koran?
I read the first 10 suras.

 

[OnePercenter]

John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

Other than the bible which is a work of fiction, got any proof?

 

[OZman]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Is there any support in the Bible for the opposite position, that a man or woman can obtain salvation without belief in Christ?

Because this is a pretty common belief, even among Christians, and I think it is wrong.

Seems there is.

Matthew 19:16-22King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.