John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[Indeependent]

Hebrews 8, New International Version (NIV) | Chapter 8 | The Bible App | Bible.com

There are so many errors in Hebrews it would take me hours to explain the corruptions from the Torah and Psalms.
There's no way an educated Jew could ever take it seriously.
The shame is your fear base Heaven/Hell paradigm.

 

[Meriweather]

I'd wish you would point out just one.

The Book of Hebrews and its authorship are shrouded in many unknowns. We don't know for certain who the author is; we don't know for certain when it was written; we don't know if it was originally written in Hebrew or Greek--and this last may make a huge difference. Here is one example.

Let's take a look at Hebrews 8:13--first the Greek presentation and its English meaning; the second what a direct translation from the Hebrew into English may have said. (Unfortunately, a copy of the original Hebrew is no longer in existence.)

When he speaks of a new covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing. (Hebrews 8:13 from the Greek)

However, the original Hebrew would have said:

And according to that which he said ‘renewed covenant’ he has antiquated the first to that which has put on antiquity and in coming days behold he offers that which is longed for. (i.e., the renewal of Torah).

 

[Indeependent]

I'd wish you would point out just one.

The Book of Hebrews and its authorship are shrouded in many unknowns. We don't know for certain who the author is; we don't know for certain when it was written; we don't know if it was originally written in Hebrew or Greek--and this last may make a huge difference. Here is one example.

Let's take a look at Hebrews 8:13--first the Greek presentation and its English meaning; the second what a direct translation from the Hebrew into English may have said. (Unfortunately, a copy of the original Hebrew is no longer in existence.)

When he speaks of a new covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing. (Hebrews 8:13 from the Greek)

However, the original Hebrew would have said:

And according to that which he said ‘renewed covenant’ he has antiquated the first to that which has put on antiquity and in coming days behold he offers that which is longed for. (i.e., the renewal of Torah).

Quoting out of context and ignoring a work of complete Scriptural revisionism is intellectually dishonest.
I told you already that you are trained to do this and you have to break out of this trained behavior.
You will now tell me I'm being mean.

 

[Meriweather]

Quoting out of context and ignoring a work of complete Scriptural revisionism is intellectually dishonest.
I told you already that you are trained to do this and you have to break out of this trained behavior.
You will now tell me I'm being mean.

No, I don't think you are being mean, just confusing. Once again, I was responding to another poster who asked for "just one" example of Hebrews being in error.

From this one example, you claim I am:

1. Quoting out of context. (It's a Hebrew passage that may be in error, which fits the criteria of the post to which I was responding.)

2. Intellectually dishonest. (I am dishonest by quoting a scripture passage some think is in error?)

3. Told you already you are trained to do this. (But no one has trained me in Bible research. I enjoy research on many different issues. So, off I go on my own (as trained by my journalism professors) to do my own research. Don't see a problem with this.)

4. I will think you are mean. (As I said, I simply find you confusing. Do you see yourself as mean?)

I did not mean to offend you (if that is what I am doing). I simply thought Little Nipper might be interested in considering just one example as it relates to Christianity. He and I may have different thoughts on the two possible translations/interpretations.

 

[Indeependent]

Quoting out of context and ignoring a work of complete Scriptural revisionism is intellectually dishonest.
I told you already that you are trained to do this and you have to break out of this trained behavior.
You will now tell me I'm being mean.

No, I don't think you are being mean, just confusing. Once again, I was responding to another poster who asked for "just one" example of Hebrews being in error.

From this one example, you claim I am:

1. Quoting out of context. (It's a Hebrew passage that may be in error, which fits the criteria of the post to which I was responding.)

2. Intellectually dishonest. (I am dishonest by quoting a scripture passage some think is in error?)

3. Told you already you are trained to do this. (But no one has trained me in Bible research. I enjoy research on many different issues. So, off I go on my own (as trained by my journalism professors) to do my own research. Don't see a problem with this.)

4. I will think you are mean. (As I said, I simply find you confusing. Do you see yourself as mean?)

I did not mean to offend you (if that is what I am doing). I simply thought Little Nipper might be interested in considering just one example as it relates to Christianity. He and I may have different thoughts on the two possible translations/interpretations.

You are not offending me.
You simply have no clue as to how to research this subject.
You are buttressing nonsense.
That is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Meriweather]

Let's go back and perhaps understand why I elected to respond to Little Nipper's post rather than yours.

There are so many errors in Hebrews it would take me hours to explain the corruptions from the Torah and Psalms.
There's no way an educated Jew could ever take it seriously.
The shame is your fear base Heaven/Hell paradigm.

In Catholicism there is no fear base Heaven/Hell paradigm. Since you conclude differently we have no common ground for discussion.

Then there is this gem:

Yes, you have been promised Hell by your Priests if you study the Torah verse by verse.

Rather, there is no way in hell that is true.

You have made it clear you are way out of my league and disdain anything I offer. Fine, you don't wish to engage me. I honor that and do not talk to you about the Book of Hebrews. But I don't understand why I can't have a conversation on the Book of Hebrews (which is a New Testament book) with Little Nipper from two different Christian perspectives without you criticizing, even insulting, me. Are you an expert on Christian perspectives?

 

[Indeependent]

Let's go back and perhaps understand why I elected to respond to Little Nipper's post rather than yours.

There are so many errors in Hebrews it would take me hours to explain the corruptions from the Torah and Psalms.
There's no way an educated Jew could ever take it seriously.
The shame is your fear base Heaven/Hell paradigm.

In Catholicism there is no fear base Heaven/Hell paradigm. Since you conclude differently we have no common ground for discussion.

Then there is this gem:

Yes, you have been promised Hell by your Priests if you study the Torah verse by verse.

Rather, there is no way in hell that is true.

You have made it clear you are way out of my league and disdain anything I offer. Fine, you don't wish to engage me. I honor that and do not talk to you about the Book of Hebrews. But I don't understand why I can't have a conversation on the Book of Hebrews (which is a New Testament book) with Little Nipper from two different Christian perspectives without you criticizing, even insulting, me. Are you an expert on Christian perspectives?

Because I was responding to Little Nipper.
And the RCC changes it's Heaven/Hell paradigm to fit the times, not the Scripture.

 

[Meriweather]

Because I was responding to Little Nipper.

Exactly. Which is why I elected not to respond to you in the first place. Thought a better conversation might be had with Little Nipper.

And the RCC changes it's Heaven/Hell paradigm to fit the times, not the Scripture.

Not quite accurate, but if that is what you believe, then at least keep up with the current century.

 

[irosie91]

Meri>>>>> Just because Hebrews is not part of the Old Testament, doesn't mean that it wasn't directed as an apologetic for Jews. The reason God created the Jews was to bring the Messiah into the world through them.

I will have to re-read "Hebrews"----I have a vague recollection that I found it a weird attempt at mysticism. "god" created jews
just so 'he" could use a little jewish girl as a surrogate womb?
It is so weird that I did not understand why it was named "Hebrews"

 

[irosie91]

DANTE WAS LYING?

 

[Indeependent]

Meri>>>>> Just because Hebrews is not part of the Old Testament, doesn't mean that it wasn't directed as an apologetic for Jews. The reason God created the Jews was to bring the Messiah into the world through them.

I will have to re-read "Hebrews"----I have a vague recollection that I found it a weird attempt at mysticism. "god" created jews
just so 'he" could use a little jewish girl as a surrogate womb?
It is so weird that I did not understand why it was named "Hebrews"

Hebrews gets everything wrong but you have to study the Torah to know.

 

[Indeependent]

Because I was responding to Little Nipper.

Exactly. Which is why I elected not to respond to you in the first place. Thought a better conversation might be had with Little Nipper.

And the RCC changes it's Heaven/Hell paradigm to fit the times, not the Scripture.

Not quite accurate, but if that is what you believe, then at least keep up with the current century.

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds.
That would be an honest post that I can respect.

 

[Meriweather]

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds. That would be an honest post that I can respect.

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. You are angry with every other word I communicate to others, so, as I have no wish to fan those embers, I make no effort to seek you out. I wish you peace and may God bless you and keep you.

 

[irosie91]

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds. That would be an honest post that I can respect.

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. .

In fact, Meri--------it ain't you either

 

[Indeependent]

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds. That would be an honest post that I can respect.

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. You are angry with every other word I communicate to others, so, as I have no wish to fan those embers, I make no effort to seek you out. I wish you peace and may God bless you and keep you.

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

 

[irosie91]

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds. That would be an honest post that I can respect.

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. You are angry with every other word I communicate to others, so, as I have no wish to fan those embers, I make no effort to seek you out. I wish you peace and may God bless you and keep you.

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

Independent------what seems like a perversion of Torah to YOU-------is, according to DA CHURCH------an AUTHORIZED FIXED UP VERSION of things via the trinity member, Jesus. One of the many issues I have is that those FIX-UPS seem to me, based on my intelligent interpretations on HOW BOOKS ARE MADE------invariably, afterthoughts, invented long after the man died which COINCIDENTALLY conform to the needs and propensities of Imperialist Rome and some Nicean wishful thinking.
If you do not believe that Jesus actually said what unidentified
John or the greek speaking Luke or Matthew (whoever he was) said he said.........you come to my understanding of the NT

 

[Meriweather]

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

As I don't use New Testament distortions of the Tanach to prove any point, you will have to find someone else, if your goal is to rip someone to shreds.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

You will have to be more specific on your perspective of what the Catholic Church's goals were. What I usually find is someone disapproves of what one person or community did in a certain situation, calls that "Church Goal" and blames all Catholics who ever lived to this very day. In fact, we can find Catholics in that time or community equally disapproving and/or advocating change so that the Church lives up to Church goals/ideals.

 

[Indeependent]

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds. That would be an honest post that I can respect.

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. You are angry with every other word I communicate to others, so, as I have no wish to fan those embers, I make no effort to seek you out. I wish you peace and may God bless you and keep you.

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

Independent------what seems like a perversion of Torah to YOU-------is, according to DA CHURCH------an AUTHORIZED FIXED UP VERSION of things via the trinity member, Jesus. One of the many issues I have is that those FIX-UPS seem to me, based on my intelligent interpretations on HOW BOOKS ARE MADE------invariably, afterthoughts, invented long after the man died which COINCIDENTALLY conform to the needs and propensities of Imperialist Rome and some Nicean wishful thinking.
If you do not believe that Jesus actually said what unidentified
John or the greek speaking Luke or Matthew (whoever he was) said he said.........you come to my understanding of the NT

Then Da RCC should not have outright inkliodead miss Kwotz and udder inn korekt miss tranz lay shins and owt of kunt ext ver ses.

 

[Indeependent]

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

As I don't use New Testament distortions of the Tanach to prove any point, you will have to find someone else, if your goal is to rip someone to shreds.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

You will have to be more specific on your perspective of what the Catholic Church's goals were. What I usually find is someone disapproves of what one person or community did in a certain situation, calls that "Church Goal" and blames all Catholics who ever lived to this very day. In fact, we can find Catholics in that time or community equally disapproving and/or advocating change so that the Church lives up to Church goals/ideals.

Gee zus man, go lookup Constantine.
Do you have a severe case of arthritis or fear of reading anything other than the NT?

 

[irosie91]

What you really mean is that you'd rather deal with someone who can't rip the NT and the RCC to shreds. That would be an honest post that I can respect.

You really don't get it, do you? I have been studying religion my entire life. I have been on religion forums for over ten years. Most of what there is on religion forums are people who want to rip God, the New Testament, and the Catholic Church to shreds. You want honesty: I have no interest in interacting with someone like you if all you can offer is the same ol', same ol. I began finding that boring many years past, but I put up with it for the same reason I garden. Part of that which you enjoy most comes with weeds and thorns.

My belief: God has His own secret staircase to each individual's heart. God reveals Himself secretly, as well as openly, in many different ways, using many different avenues.

What I seek: People who can freely discuss God and their own faith without that need to first utterly destroy the ways, avenues, and staircases of another. And, as I picked up on several days ago, currently, that's not you. You are angry with every other word I communicate to others, so, as I have no wish to fan those embers, I make no effort to seek you out. I wish you peace and may God bless you and keep you.

Just don't use the NT's distortions of Tanach to prove your point because I will rip it to shreads.

I respect your search for God; I don't respect what the RCC did to achieve it's goals.

Independent------what seems like a perversion of Torah to YOU-------is, according to DA CHURCH------an AUTHORIZED FIXED UP VERSION of things via the trinity member, Jesus. One of the many issues I have is that those FIX-UPS seem to me, based on my intelligent interpretations on HOW BOOKS ARE MADE------invariably, afterthoughts, invented long after the man died which COINCIDENTALLY conform to the needs and propensities of Imperialist Rome and some Nicean wishful thinking.
If you do not believe that Jesus actually said what unidentified
John or the greek speaking Luke or Matthew (whoever he was) said he said.........you come to my understanding of the NT

Then Da RCC should not have outright inkliodead miss Kwotz and udder inn korekt miss tranz lay shins and owt of kunt ext ver ses.

Hebrew grammar is UNKNOWABLE