John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[alang1216]

When did the myth take hold?

If you refer to Exodus the question has no answer. Like all myths it is set of stories, some based on historical events, some taken from other cultures, woven together to tell a story of the movement of the Jewish people into Palestine.

 

[Indeependent]

When did the myth take hold?

If you refer to Exodus the question has no answer. Like all myths it is set of stories, some based on historical events, some taken from other cultures, woven together to tell a story of the movement of the Jewish people into Palestine.

When did someone or some group pull the wool over the eyes of what became the Jews?

Aka...
Who managed to create such a restrictive system?

 

[shimon]

We have discussed this many times the sacrificial lamb was one of the gods of Egypt it was an idol the Israelites showed the Egyptians by eating it and consuming it during the time before Their exodus that it had no power over them just like your Jesus has no power over anyone or anything today.. Be careful claiming he is the sacrificial lamb as I will show you will this could never be true and by your claiming this for him you are saying he is the worthless Idol of the Egyptians which if any think about it is extremely close to the truth as much of the New Testament was borrowed from ancient Egyptian beliefs and customs....Once again there is no vicarious atonement and all stand on his or her sins...

Push this too far and we have the Israelites able to escape because they defeated an Egyptian idol, not because of anything God did. Wasn't the sacrifice Abel offered that was acceptable to God a sheep? Wasn't it a sheep God provided Abraham? When Pharaoh permitted the Israelites to travel three days journey into the desert to sacrifice a lamb, was it God who took away the flies, or do you say it was the defeat of an Egyptian idol that removed the flies?

It appears that God taught the Israelites that sacrificing to Him, gave them more freedom than trying to appease the Egyptians by refraining from offering their sacrifice.

Was Abel's sacrifice the exact same as Abraham's the exact same that was offered at the first Passover? Or, were there distinct difference that fit each individual event? Jesus sacrificed his life under Annas, Caiaphas, and Pilate because he believed the will of God was more vital than the will of these earthly leaders. He was willing to have his blood shed to establish the new covenant between God and mankind--that of repentance for the forgiveness of sin.

The focus should always remain on God. That is the purpose of any sacrifice, whether one offers God a lamb, or whether one offers God his life.

See Everyone the convuluted logic at its best....A sheep is not a lamb or is it...Rolling my eyes..Twist Twist.....The lamb was once again the idol of Egypt further Human sacrifice is a NO NO as per Deutoronomy 12;30-31 as per other places....GD despises it further....lol...Are you saying your Idol Jesus was not a man but a wooly little sheep or lamb Make up your mind or keep trying to have it both ways...lol....Very Humorous watching you contort yourself....

 

[alang1216]

When did the myth take hold?

If you refer to Exodus the question has no answer. Like all myths it is set of stories, some based on historical events, some taken from other cultures, woven together to tell a story of the movement of the Jewish people into Palestine.

When did someone or some group pull the wool over the eyes of what became the Jews?

Aka...
Who managed to create such a restrictive system?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. The myth grew up within the Jew culture. It was their story. Embellished a bit and justified by the help of their god. They very likely destroyed whole city states in Palestine and slaughtered the inhabitants, justified by God of course. They were only following orders.

 

[Indeependent]

When did the myth take hold?

If you refer to Exodus the question has no answer. Like all myths it is set of stories, some based on historical events, some taken from other cultures, woven together to tell a story of the movement of the Jewish people into Palestine.

When did someone or some group pull the wool over the eyes of what became the Jews?

Aka...
Who managed to create such a restrictive system?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. The myth grew up within the Jew culture. It was their story. Embellished a bit and justified by the help of their god. They very likely destroyed whole city states in Palestine and slaughtered the inhabitants, justified by God of course. They were only following orders.

What was the culture?
Were there 613 Commandments?

 

[alang1216]

When did the myth take hold?

If you refer to Exodus the question has no answer. Like all myths it is set of stories, some based on historical events, some taken from other cultures, woven together to tell a story of the movement of the Jewish people into Palestine.

When did someone or some group pull the wool over the eyes of what became the Jews?

Aka...
Who managed to create such a restrictive system?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. The myth grew up within the Jew culture. It was their story. Embellished a bit and justified by the help of their god. They very likely destroyed whole city states in Palestine and slaughtered the inhabitants, justified by God of course. They were only following orders.

What was the culture?
Were there 613 Commandments?

The Jews were a Semitic tribe. The term Semitic tribes (or Semites) refers to several groups of nomads and camel pastoralists who spoke related Semitic languages and included Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Abyssinians, and Phoenicians.

The 613 Commandments appears to be a much later development. The tradition that 613 commandments (Hebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‎, taryag mitzvot, "613 mitzvot") is the number of mitzvot in the Torah, began in the 3rd century CE, when Rabbi Simlai mentioned it in a sermon that is recorded in Talmud Makkot 23b.

 

[Indeependent]

When did the myth take hold?

If you refer to Exodus the question has no answer. Like all myths it is set of stories, some based on historical events, some taken from other cultures, woven together to tell a story of the movement of the Jewish people into Palestine.

When did someone or some group pull the wool over the eyes of what became the Jews?

Aka...
Who managed to create such a restrictive system?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. The myth grew up within the Jew culture. It was their story. Embellished a bit and justified by the help of their god. They very likely destroyed whole city states in Palestine and slaughtered the inhabitants, justified by God of course. They were only following orders.

What was the culture?
Were there 613 Commandments?

The Jews were a Semitic tribe. The term Semitic tribes (or Semites) refers to several groups of nomads and camel pastoralists who spoke related Semitic languages and included Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Abyssinians, and Phoenicians.

The 613 Commandments appears to be a much later development. The tradition that 613 commandments (Hebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‎, taryag mitzvot, "613 mitzvot") is the number of mitzvot in the Torah, began in the 3rd century CE, when Rabbi Simlai mentioned it in a sermon that is recorded in Talmud Makkot 23b.

From where did Rabbi Simlai conjur up these Commandments and for what reason?
Were they in effect prior to R' Simlai?

 

[alang1216]

From where did Rabbi Simlai conjur up these Commandments and for what reason?
Were they in effect prior to R' Simlai?

I don't know how or why and, more importantly, I don't know why I should care.

 

[Indeependent]

From where did Rabbi Simlai conjur up these Commandments and for what reason?
Were they in effect prior to R' Simlai?

I don't know how or why and, more importantly, I don't know why I should care.

You claim "Myth" because you are "rational".
I say if you're so logical and rational back up your claim with facts.

No one decided to just take on a myriad number of activities because one Rabbi said so.

You may now proceed to use your intelligence to tackle the aforementioned questions.

 

[alang1216]

From where did Rabbi Simlai conjur up these Commandments and for what reason?
Were they in effect prior to R' Simlai?

I don't know how or why and, more importantly, I don't know why I should care.

You claim "Myth" because you are "rational".
I say if you're so logical and rational back up your claim with facts.

No one decided to just take on a myriad number of activities because one Rabbi said so.

You may now proceed to use your intelligence to tackle the aforementioned questions.

The Elephantine papyri come from a Jewish community at Elephantine, then called Yeb, the island in the Nile at the border of Nubia, which was probably founded as a military installation in about 650 BCE during Manasseh's reign to assist Pharaoh Psammetichus I in his Nubian campaign. Although 1,000 years after the Exodus, they show that some Jews may have remained in Egypt as mercenaries. Others may have left to resume their traditional nomadic way of life. For nomads, 40 years in the desert was a drop in the bucket. Like many myths it may well have started as a real event but like any history, the real story is likely much more complicated than we'll ever know.

 

[Indeependent]

From where did Rabbi Simlai conjur up these Commandments and for what reason?
Were they in effect prior to R' Simlai?

I don't know how or why and, more importantly, I don't know why I should care.

You claim "Myth" because you are "rational".
I say if you're so logical and rational back up your claim with facts.

No one decided to just take on a myriad number of activities because one Rabbi said so.

You may now proceed to use your intelligence to tackle the aforementioned questions.

The Elephantine papyri come from a Jewish community at Elephantine, then called Yeb, the island in the Nile at the border of Nubia, which was probably founded as a military installation in about 650 BCE during Manasseh's reign to assist Pharaoh Psammetichus I in his Nubian campaign. Although 1,000 years after the Exodus, they show that some Jews may have remained in Egypt as mercenaries. Others may have left to resume their traditional nomadic way of life. For nomads, 40 years in the desert was a drop in the bucket. Like many myths it may well have started as a real event but like any history, the real story is likely much more complicated than we'll ever know.

That's an answer?
You're kidding?
I want to know which rabbis in which generation pulled the wool over millions of people by imposing upon them a lifestyle out of nowhere.

 

[hobelim]

From where did Rabbi Simlai conjur up these Commandments and for what reason?
Were they in effect prior to R' Simlai?

I don't know how or why and, more importantly, I don't know why I should care.

You claim "Myth" because you are "rational".
I say if you're so logical and rational back up your claim with facts.

No one decided to just take on a myriad number of activities because one Rabbi said so.

You may now proceed to use your intelligence to tackle the aforementioned questions.

The Elephantine papyri come from a Jewish community at Elephantine, then called Yeb, the island in the Nile at the border of Nubia, which was probably founded as a military installation in about 650 BCE during Manasseh's reign to assist Pharaoh Psammetichus I in his Nubian campaign. Although 1,000 years after the Exodus, they show that some Jews may have remained in Egypt as mercenaries. Others may have left to resume their traditional nomadic way of life. For nomads, 40 years in the desert was a drop in the bucket. Like many myths it may well have started as a real event but like any history, the real story is likely much more complicated than we'll ever know.

That's an answer?
You're kidding?
I want to know which rabbis in which generation pulled the wool over millions of people by imposing upon them a lifestyle out of nowhere.

According to the story Moses said that the people would turn aside from the way he taught to follow the law as soon as he was dead. That was a very long time ago.

Many objected and rebelled against him while he was still alive, probably because they saw themselves as the subject of condemnation in the divine menu.

 

[Indeependent]

From where did Rabbi Simlai conjur up these Commandments and for what reason?
Were they in effect prior to R' Simlai?

I don't know how or why and, more importantly, I don't know why I should care.

You claim "Myth" because you are "rational".
I say if you're so logical and rational back up your claim with facts.

No one decided to just take on a myriad number of activities because one Rabbi said so.

You may now proceed to use your intelligence to tackle the aforementioned questions.

The Elephantine papyri come from a Jewish community at Elephantine, then called Yeb, the island in the Nile at the border of Nubia, which was probably founded as a military installation in about 650 BCE during Manasseh's reign to assist Pharaoh Psammetichus I in his Nubian campaign. Although 1,000 years after the Exodus, they show that some Jews may have remained in Egypt as mercenaries. Others may have left to resume their traditional nomadic way of life. For nomads, 40 years in the desert was a drop in the bucket. Like many myths it may well have started as a real event but like any history, the real story is likely much more complicated than we'll ever know.

That's an answer?
You're kidding?
I want to know which rabbis in which generation pulled the wool over millions of people by imposing upon them a lifestyle out of nowhere.

According to the story Moses said that the people would turn aside from the way he taught to follow the law as soon as he was dead. That was a very long time ago.

Many objected and rebelled against him while he was still alive, probably because they saw themselves as the subject of condemnation in the divine menu.

Uh...you think you're leaving out a few dozen verses again?
What's new.

 

[JohnPrewett]

What became of all the good people who lived before Jesus? Was there no path to heaven for them?

Jesus preached to the souls in hell .....

So God sent people born before Jesus, both good and bad, to hell? Doesn't sound like a just system to me. They had a chance to accept Jesus and be forgiven but they still served time in hell.

I'm confident "hell" was not/is not a place of pain. Just something of a holding pen. I'm confident EVERYONE who ever lived has been or will be given opportunity to be saved.

 

[JohnPrewett]

It is easy to see why some-many Jews then and now hated Jesus. For instance: Jesus heals the servant of a Roman officer ..... and applauds the faith of the officer (with no hint the officer ever read the Law).
then to top it off, Jesus has the nerve to predict that some Gentiles would be saved with Abe, Issac and Jacob .... and some Jews would be lost.

5 And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, entreating Him, 6 and saying,
“Lord, my servant is lying at home, sick with paralysis, terribly tormented.” 7 Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”.............

You have it completely backwards John.. Gds sons the Israeli s In Israel just injected stem cells in rats and made them walk again.. These techniques and cures will be applied to humans not long from now.. Look it up it was just in the news... They are working hard to cure all the ills not just paralysis...These are not bogus claims like is made in the New Testament for Deeds that Jesus supposedly did .. Those are self testimony ... The fruits of Gds sons in Israel are spreading to all four corners of the globe... They are the ones leading the charge to cure everything they are behaving in gd like manner therefore behaving as sons of gd...Jesus never accomplished the things they are doing you follow a false vision and once again there is still no vicarious atonement...

So the disciples sitting around after Jesus is tortured and crucified, and one of them says to the others :

"Don't be so gloomy. We can still prevail. All we gotta do is overpower the Roman guards
and rob the tomb and tell everybody Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to us.

We'll tell everybody the leaders crucified the Messiah.

All we gotta do is stick to the lie even though we know it will greatly offend the leaders that crucified Jesus.
And also offend God.
No doubt these leaders will torture and crucify us like they did Jesus.

But we aren't afraid to be tortured and crucified, ...uh, .... are we ?

Hey fellows, where are you going .....? Hey, it was just an idea ......

 

[alang1216]

I'm confident "hell" was not/is not a place of pain. Just something of a holding pen. I'm confident EVERYONE who ever lived has been or will be given opportunity to be saved.

So, as a non-believer, once I'm dead I'll go to hell and be given opportunity to be saved? I'm a non-believer because I don't see evidence for God but once I'm dead it will be obvious there is a God won't it? I'd guess everyone will accept the obvious and be saved. If that is the plan why doesn't God reveal himself in this world?

 

[alang1216]

I want to know which rabbis in which generation pulled the wool over millions of people by imposing upon them a lifestyle out of nowhere.

This is your question based on nothing I have said.

 

[JohnPrewett]

I'm confident "hell" was not/is not a place of pain.
Just something of a holding pen. I'm confident EVERYONE who ever lived has been or will be given opportunity to be saved.

So, as a non-believer, once I'm dead I'll go to hell and be given opportunity to be saved? I'm a non-believer because I don't see evidence for God but once I'm dead it will be obvious there is a God won't it? I'd guess everyone will accept the obvious and be saved. If that is the plan why doesn't God reveal himself in this world?

YOU have had opportunity to be saved. If you died right now, I believe you would sleep.
Most Christians would say you no longer have any hope. Most Christians would cite "die once and after that the judgement"

I've been a believer and studied bible for over 40 years. ONLY in past couple of years have I come to disagree with Most Christians about "die once and after that the judgement"

My thinking changed due to notice of "Women received their dead raised to life again" Heb 11:35 ...... and of course Lazarus died twice.

So .... I believe a "dead" (sleeping) unbeliever may get another chance.

I advise stop thinking of word "hell" ......... it is irrelevant. What's relevant is that "death" is really "sleep" (SO SAID JESUS) ....

and, Jesus has (thus can do it again) wakened people from that "sleep" and brought them back into this world. (Heb 11:35)

 

[alang1216]

I'm confident "hell" was not/is not a place of pain.
Just something of a holding pen. I'm confident EVERYONE who ever lived has been or will be given opportunity to be saved.

So, as a non-believer, once I'm dead I'll go to hell and be given opportunity to be saved? I'm a non-believer because I don't see evidence for God but once I'm dead it will be obvious there is a God won't it? I'd guess everyone will accept the obvious and be saved. If that is the plan why doesn't God reveal himself in this world?

YOU have had opportunity to be saved. If you died right now, I believe you would sleep.
Most Christians would say you no longer have any hope. Most Christians would cite "die once and after that the judgement"

I've been a believer and studied bible for over 40 years. ONLY in past couple of years have I come to disagree with Most Christians about "die once and after that the judgement"

My thinking changed due to notice of "Women received their dead raised to life again" Heb 11:35 ...... and of course Lazarus died twice.

So .... I believe a "dead" (sleeping) unbeliever may get another chance.

I advise stop thinking of word "hell" ......... it is irrelevant. What's relevant is that "death" is really "sleep" (SO SAID JESUS) ....

and, Jesus has (thus can do it again) wakened people from that "sleep" and brought them back into this world. (Heb 11:35)

So if I had lived and died before Jesus I'd still get a chance to be saved. Would I know I'm asleep/dead and therefore know with certainty who Jesus is? Somehow that doesn't seem very fair.

 

[Meriweather]

So, as a non-believer, once I'm dead I'll go to hell and be given opportunity to be saved? I'm a non-believer because I don't see evidence for God but once I'm dead it will be obvious there is a God won't it? I'd guess everyone will accept the obvious and be saved. If that is the plan why doesn't God reveal himself in this world?

Not being a Universalist (a belief everyone will be with God), I see it a bit differently. I don't see automatic assignment of anyone to either heaven or hell. For example, if a person has no interest in knowing God, loving God or serving God in this life, what do we think would happen at the moment of death that suddenly gives them the desire to know, love, and serve God? In Catholic school we were taught not to picture hell as a fiery furnace, but as a separation from God. If one desires this separation, then one may choose it.