It’s Time to Unplug the Hype Over Electric Vehicles

[pknopp]

It's a good thing you are not teaching a class. Your students would know very little and have an unrealistic view of reality.

I'm not qualified to teach a class so...................nothing I've said has been untrue.

 

[EvMetro]

As I said before. The grid won't have to change, as long as the load of charging EV's is mostly at night. If you've ever seen the graph of power usage throughout the day, and there's plenty of power available at night.

From 11 pm to 6 am there's plenty of excess capacity

Wrong. More EVs charging means more demand on circuits. This means circuits need to be beefed up to handle the increased demand. Unfortunately, funding from government grants for projects like this usually means updating only to barely getting by, which means it becomes obsolete as soon as a few more EVs are added.

 

[pknopp]

Wrong. More EVs charging means more demand on circuits. This means circuits need to be beefed up to handle the increased demand. Unfortunately, funding from government grants for projects like this usually means updating only to barely getting by, which means it becomes obsolete as soon as a few more EVs are added.

We used to have massive electrical needs back when we used to actually produce things. The electrical needs of steel production was huge. There were manufacturing plants all over a large city. We met their needs. The only qualification to meeting the needs is a desire to meet the needs.

 

[postman]

Which isn't even being argued. I can install one in my garage for less than $100. The argument is that it doesn't have to be some expensive undertaking.

If you live in a 100 year old home that has never been updated can it be? Sure but the argument is that charging an electric car isn't any different necessarily than running your dryer.

I don't imagine there are many people in 100 year old houses that haven't upgraded their electrical service. After all, in the 1920's there wasn't enough service to run an electric water heater, a toaster, and an electric hair dryer at the same time.

Anybody who still has a 100 year old service hasn't heard of air conditioning.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You're supposed to get neutral from ground, not by tapping between legs. That way any phase to neutral is 120 V

Huh? A delta circuit has a 240 leg and two 110s

 

[Wyatt earp]

You're supposed to get neutral from ground, not by tapping between legs. That way any phase to neutral is 120 V

No your supposed to get/use the neutral directly from the power company

If you just use local ground the voltage could be higher or lower

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I'm not qualified to teach a class so...................nothing I've said has been untrue.

Never said it was.
What I said, was it was an over simplification.
What you said, and I agreed to, is for many...possibly as high as 40% of homes, it would be simple.
But that leaves 60% of homes where it isn't simple. The majority of people.

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong. More EVs charging means more demand on circuits. This means circuits need to be beefed up to handle the increased demand. Unfortunately, funding from government grants for projects like this usually means updating only to barely getting by, which means it becomes obsolete as soon as a few more EVs are added.

Still not as much of a demand as the daytime load
You overestimate the load of a car slow charging at night

 

[pknopp]

Never said it was.
What I said, was it was an over simplification.

Of course it was a simplification. Again we are not writing a book or teaching a class here. If I wrote pages after pages covering everything no one is going to read it so we keep it simple.

What you said, and I agreed to, is for many...possibly as high as 40% of homes, it would be simple.
But that leaves 60% of homes where it isn't simple. The majority of people.

I have no idea what the percentage is but I've also noted that EV's are not for everyone today. An even better example would be those who live in apts.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Of course it was a simplification. Again we are not writing a book or teaching a class here. If I wrote pages after pages covering everything no one is going to read it so we keep it simple.




I have no idea what the percentage is but I've also noted that EV's are not for everyone today. An even better example would be those who live in apts.

FFS - why didn't you just agree with me then? - you just did

 

[rightwinger]

I have no idea what the percentage is but I've also noted that EV's are not for everyone today. An even better example would be those who live in apts.

I envision apartments with off street parking will install charging stations for residents.
Existing gas stations will have to add EV quick charge capability to survive. Many other businesses will offer charging. At 250 miles per charge, you will have to charge about once a week.

 

[pknopp]

FFS - why didn't you just agree with me then? - you just did

I was addressing the issue that it was going to be an expensive issue to charge your car at home. I was simply noting that for many it is not.

 

[pknopp]

I envision apartments with off street parking will install charging stations for residents.
Existing gas stations will have to add EV quick charge capability to survive. Many other businesses will offer charging. At 250 miles per charge, you will have to charge about once a week.

I imagine apartments very well might do that also. I know there are parking garages that have them now but for many that is still not a reality.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Still not as much of a demand as the daytime load
You overestimate the load of a car slow charging at night

Sad thing is GM 30 years ago damn near figured it all out with the Chevy EV1.
People that leased them - thought they were awesome. Gen II quickly came out and doubled the cars mile limits.
This was 30 years ago.
If it would have been stuck with, imagine what we would have now. Who knows what kind of energy solution would have been invented, perhaps technology that could be used in other areas.
For instance, my opinion, is the national grid needs to be retired. It is not difficult, or even that expensive today to electrify an off grid home. It has it's limits, but that would have been figured out decades ago. And so would the cost of systems. Which are half what it use to be already and waaay more efficient.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I envision apartments with off street parking will install charging stations for residents.
Existing gas stations will have to add EV quick charge capability to survive. Many other businesses will offer charging. At 250 miles per charge, you will have to charge about once a week.

And high speed rail lines could alleviate travel.
Ask me if I would rather drive 11 hours to get to Bonzi's mother in NC - or take a high speed rail and get there in 5 hours.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

EVs should pay a mileage tax to compensate for not paying a gas tax

As much as I agree that something needs to be done to tax electric vehicles to pay for their fair share of the infrastructure that they use, comparable to the taxes born by owners/drivers of internal-combustion-engined vehicles, I am unalterably opposed to any kind of “mileage tax”. Where or how much any citizen drives his vehicle is none of government's fucking business. A mileage tax is just too invasive of privacy, and too wide open for abuse.

 

[rightwinger]

As much as I agree that something needs to be done to tax electric vehicles to pay for their fair share of the infrastructure that they use, comparable to the taxes born by owners/drivers of internal-combustion-engined vehicles, I am unalterably opposed to any kind of “mileage tax”. Where or how much any citizen drives his vehicle is none of government's fucking business. A mileage tax is just too invasive of privacy, and too wide open for abuse.

A gas tax is a mileage tax

 

[iamwhatiseem]

A gas tax is a mileage tax

Yep

 

[Bob Blaylock]

A gas tax is a mileage tax

No, it is not.

It is a direct tax on the purchase of a product. No records are kept, and passed on to government, as to who buys how much of that product. It turns out to be a reasonably fair way of assessing each driver in accordance with how much he uses the relevant infrastructure, and how much wear he imposes on it, without violating any privacy with regard to his actual comings and goings.

Well, except here in California, where the corrupt pieces of shit who infest our state government keep embezzling these funds that are explicitly allocated for roads and related infrastructure, spending them on other things, then using the lack of spending of these funds where they are supposed to be spent as an excuse to jack up the prices even more, to collect more money to be embezzled and wasted. But that's a separate issue, relevant to this discussion only in that it shows how corrupt government can be, and why government should never, ever, under any circumstances, be trusted with such an easily-abusable thing as a “mileage tax”, that would not only be as subject to embezzlement and fraud as our fuel taxes are, but could so easily be used to violate our privacy with regard to our comings and goings.

A mileage tax would require that government be informed as to the mileage driven by each vehicle, as reported by its odometer. This information would be passed to government, along with information linking it to each vehicle's owner, in order to tax each owner in accordance with how much he actually uses his vehicle.

 

[rightwinger]

No, it is not.

It is a direct tax on the purchase of a product. No records are kept, and passed on to government, as to who buys how much of that product. It turns out to be a reasonably fair way of assessing each driver in accordance with how much he uses the relevant infrastructure, and how much wear he imposes on it, without violating any privacy with regard to his actual comings and goings.

Well, except here in California, where the corrupt pieces of shit who infest our state government keep embezzling these funds that are explicitly allocated for roads and related infrastructure, spending them on other things, then using the lack of spending of these funds where they are supposed to be spent as an excuse to jack up the prices even more, to collect more money to be embezzled and wasted. But that's a separate issue, relevant to this discussion only in that it shows how corrupt government can be, and why government should never, ever, under any circumstances, be trusted with such an easily-abusable thing as a “mileage tax”, that would not only be as subject to embezzlement and fraud as our fuel taxes are, but could so easily be used to violate our privacy with regard to our comings and goings.

A mileage tax would require that government be informed as to the mileage driven by each vehicle, as reported by its odometer. This information would be passed to government, along with information linking it to each vehicle's owner, in order to tax each owner in accordance with how much he actually uses his vehicle.

When I get my car inspected they already record the mileage