Israel violates international law

[Victory67]

Palestine has not signed so it does not apply. It says so at the beginning of the conventions

You sir are very incorrect.

Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.

The Fourth Geneva Convention | Jewish Virtual Library

 

[Phoenall]

4th GC blah blah blah

Did you not read my link. Probably not, so here it is again. Read and learn.

Why Israel Is Not Violating Fourth Geneva Convention | United with Israel

I have read the 4th Geneva Conventions. You clearly haven't.

The West Bank is covered by them as they are Occupied Territory, legally Occupied by Israel.

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Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.

 

[Victory67]

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Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.

See above where I already showed how you are very incorrect.

All nations who have ratified the 4th GC are bound by it whether or not other parties to a conflict have ratified it.

 

[Phoenall]

I remember the West Bank before the settlements ... before the checkpoints ... before the six day war.

When it had been ethnically cleansed of all the Jews with a legal right to live there. When they were evicted by force of arms, beaten and abused with nothing left but the clothes on their backs. The intention was to wipe out every Jew in the M.E and rid the world of the scourge once and for all. And now islam is paying the price for the botched effort.

Nonsense Arab Jews dribbled out in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 because of the behavior of the Israelis. Do you ever stop playing the victim?

They were ethnically cleansed from the land by the muslims


https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/jew_refugees.html

In 1945, roughly 1 million Jews lived peacefully in the various Arab states of the Middle East, many of them in communities that had existed for thousands of years. After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, however, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments’ anti-Zionist fervor. As Egypt’s delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: “The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition.” The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.

 

[Victory67]

The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence.. The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.

This is amusing because your compratriot [MENTION=44172]Sweet_Caroline[/MENTION] believe that the Mandate for Palestine is still very much alive.

Your side needs to figure out and decide which international agreements are still valid and which have expired. Its impossible to have a discussion when your side disagrees on such an important element of the debate.

 

[Phoenall]

The Muslims didn't get 3 countries... They already lived there.

Just as the Jews had, but then you don't like having that shown do you. But the countries did not exist under the ottoman empire and it took the mandate to create them. So the mandate created 3 new Islamic nations and 1 Jewish one from the mandate for palestine

Of course they were part of the Ottoman Empire.. but they were inhabited by Arabs NOT European immigrants. Take a look at BonFils photo from 1870 to 1890.

Jews were a minority and apparently did quite well getting along with their neighbors. Have you ever been to the West Bank?

Does not mater if the Jews were a minority or not they still had the right to self determination, and they exercised that right in may 1948. Just as Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan also exercised their right to self determination. The Palestinians refused and ended up in a perpetual war.
The Jews were 4th class citizens under muslim rule and could be killed on a whim, that is what history tells the world. Just as in Spain under Islamic control whole towns were put to the sword for just looking in the wrong direction.

 

[Phoenall]

Indeed, the vast majority of Palestinians have ancestors who predate Ottoman rule.

Yes from outside of Palestine.

Hamas admits 'Palestinian' identity is invented

"Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis," exclaimed the Hamas minister.

Hammad's remarks were undoubtedly never intended for a Western audience. Rather, he was pleading with Egypt and other neighboring states to supply Hamas-ruled Gaza with free fuel, which Hammad said Hamas would use "in order to continue to wage Jihad."
- See more at: Hamas admits 'Palestinian' identity is invented

Where do you come up with this claptrap?

Do you know that HAMAS is also full of dummies like yourself?

From unbiased source's and Islamic sources on the internet, are you saying that the hamas leader has lied ?

 

[Phoenall]

Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity, want to end up in court (and usually die of old age) in the Hague like those Serbs who tried the ethnically cleanse the Muslims from Bosnia?

How about the Jews that the muslims ethnically cleansed from the M.E. Over 1 million forcibly removed from their property and their goods stolen by the muslims starting in 1948. Care to take this matter up and explain why the muslims are given a free pass to ethnically cleanse Jews from the M.E.

Have the Jews contacted those countries to demand their right to return?

They have been told not to bother as they will kill them

 

[Phoenall]

Had the land been taken by Israel in a attack and Israel forcibly moved its population into the WB then that would have been an illegal act.

However Israel got the land in a defensive war and of course it belonged to the Jews from the 1922 San Remo Mandate so on the two counts you lose your argument straight off.

You probably made your profile here on this forum getting so excited because of the 4th Geneva Convention and couldn't wait to splurge it on all the boards here - however it is not relevant. Sorry about that.

The 4th Geneva Conventions covers all Occupied Territory, be it conquered in a defensive or offensive war. How they got the land doesn't matter.

The San Remo Conference never gave all of Palestine to the Jews. Nowhere does it state this. Plus the Jews being allowed to settle in Palestine and create a homeland there was conditional upon the full and total protection and respect for non-Jewish rights in Palestine. Why do you ignore this?

The Geneva conventions do not apply as Palestine is not bound by them

 

[RoccoR]

Phoenall, Victory67, et al,

This is not a slam-dunk. There is a general consensus here.

The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence.. The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.

Its funny you say that the Mandate for Palestine is no longer valid because many Israelis argue that the promises made to the Jews in the Mandate are still valid.

Of course the Geneva Conventions covers the West Bank. It has a section just about Occupied Territories and the West Bank are clearly Occupied Territories.

The West Bank was legally Occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967 and now it is legally Occupied by Israel.

That only applies to those nations bound by the Geneva conventions, Palestine is not bound by the Geneva conventions as they have not signed up to them. Try reading the conventions fully and not cherry picking the parts that suit your POV.

(COMMENT)

While there is an argument to be made, Israel is on the losing side here.

There is no question that after 15 July 1999, the the State of Israel was put on notice that the Geneva Convention Rules do apply to the Occupation of Palestinian Territory.

This statement reflects the common understanding reached by the participating High Contracting Parties to the Conference.
After consultations among High Contracting Parties, the Conference, as recommended by UN GA Resolution ES-10/6 in its tenth Emergency Special Session 1, convened in Geneva on 15 July 1999.

The participating High Contracting Parties reaffirmed the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem. Furthermore, they reiterated the need for full respect for the provisions of the said Convention in that Territory.

Taking into consideration the improved atmosphere in the Middle East as a whole, the Conference was adjourned on the understanding that it will convene again in the light of consultations on the development of the humanitarian situation in the field.

3. Reiterates in the strongest terms all the demands made of Israel, the occupying Power, in the above-mentioned resolutions of the tenth emergency special session, including the immediate and full cessation of the construction at Jebel Abu Ghneim and of all other Israeli settlement activities, as well as of all illegal measures and actions in Occupied East Jerusalem, the acceptance of the de jure applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention and compliance with relevant Security Council resolutions, the cessation and reversal of all actions taken illegally against Palestinian Jerusalemites and the provision of information about goods produced or manufactured in the settlements;

SOURCE: A/RES/ES-10/6 9 February 1999

SOURCE: CONFERENCE OF Geneva, 15 July 1999 HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES

The overwhelming consensus is that the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) does apply. But there are mitigating circumstances that reduce the severity of the violation. These cannot be denied as well.

While I often hear the inappropriate use of the GCIV, as it is use in this context, relative to the Settlements in the West Bank, there is a very good legal case to be made, even though the original intent was not the same as the situation in the West Bank. But if the GCIV is in general application, then the Palestinians have as much to worry about its application as the Israelis. It is not a one-way document (Articles 61-69 will apply and strips away the protections to insurgents, terrorist, Jihadist, and Fedayeen).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Victory67]

The Geneva conventions do not apply as Palestine is not bound by them

Israel is bound by the 4th GC as they have ratified the treaty.

 

[Phoenall]

Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity, want to end up in court (and usually die of old age) in the Hague like those Serbs who tried the ethnically cleanse the Muslims from Bosnia?

How about the Jews that the muslims ethnically cleansed from the M.E. Over 1 million forcibly removed from their property and their goods stolen by the muslims starting in 1948. Care to take this matter up and explain why the muslims are given a free pass to ethnically cleanse Jews from the M.E.

Oh piffle.. stop lying.. It was more like 600,000 and they left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973..

You all have a long history of exaggerations and epic lies that date to the Old Testament.

And it was more like 5,000 Palestinians forcibly removed by the jews.

But here you go pick the bones out of this

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/8/refugees.pdf

The forgotten Jewish refugees from Arab countries.
For a host of reasons – practical to parochial – Israel has failed to raise the issue of the mammoth injustice done to almost a million Jews from Arab countries. The scale and the premeditated state-sponsored nature of persecution that prompted the 1948 flight of nearly 1,000,000 Jews from their homes has only recently begun to emerge.

For decades, American presidents seeking to act as facilitators in settling the Arab-Israeli conflict have been aware that there was a flip side to the Palestinian refugee question: that is, that the rights of former Jewish refugees are no less legitimate than those of Palestinian refugees. Thus, the 1977 Camp David Accords, which established a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, provided that “the parties agree to establish a Claims Committee for the mutual settlement of all final claims.” In a press conference on October 27, 1977, at the time of the signing of the Accords, President Jimmy Carter held that “Palestinians have rights ... obviously there are Jewish refugees ... they have the same rights as others do.” The rights of Jews displaced from Arab lands was again raised at Camp David II in July 2000, when President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Barak and PA Chairman Arafat to hammer out a final status agreement. In the aftermath, President Clinton spoke of “… Jewish people, who lived predominantly in Arab countries who came to Israel because they were made refugees in their own land.

 

[Kondor3]

"...The overwhelming consensus is that the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) does apply. But there are mitigating circumstances that reduce the severity of the violation. These cannot be denied as well..."

Entirely possible that this middle-ground will eventually 'control' in this setting.

Thought-provoking.

Thanks for serving that up, Rocco.

 

[Victory67]

While there is an argument to be made, Israel is on the losing side here.

There is no question that after 15 July 1999, the the State of Israel was put on notice that the Geneva Convention Rules do apply to the Occupation of Palestinian Territory.

Of course the 4th GC applies. Its silly to argue otherwise.

 

[Phoenall]

How about the Jews that the muslims ethnically cleansed from the M.E. Over 1 million forcibly removed from their property and their goods stolen by the muslims starting in 1948. Care to take this matter up and explain why the muslims are given a free pass to ethnically cleanse Jews from the M.E.

Have the Jews contacted those countries to demand their right to return?

I have always thought that the Arab Jews leaving was a huge loss.. They were quite prosperous and involved. When I lived in Libya they were very involved in the social scene as well as in the arts and imports.

An unintended consequence of European Zionism. Shame that.

No a deliberate and could be very costly exercise of ethnic cleansing by the arab muslims

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/8/refugees.pdf

Ironically, one of the first persons to note the parallel and its relevance and logic47 was Sabri Jiryis, director of the Institute of Palestine Studies in Beirut, who wrote in the Lebanese daily Al-Nahar in 1975:
“Clearly Israel will raise the question [of the expulsion of the Jews from Arab countries] in all serious negotiations … over the rights of the Palestinians.... Israel’s arguments will take approximately the following form.... What happened, therefore, is merely a kind of ‘population and property transfer’ the consequences of which both sides have to bear. Thus Israel gathers Jews from Arab countries and the Arab countries are obligated in turn to settle the Palestinians within their own borders and work towards a solution of the problem.

Even the muslims agree that the Jews were evicted forcibly.

 

[montelatici]

And it was more like 5,000 Palestinians forcibly removed by the jews.

One wonders if it is brainwashing or just pathological lying. Not even the Israeli government spokesman would make such a ridiculous claim

 

[Phoenall]

I remember BEFORE the 67 war.. I remember there were no settlements, checkpoints or soldiers. There were NO rock throwing children.

No Jews as they had been ethnically cleansed by the arabs, no free Palestinians as they were locked up behind barbed wire, no villages. It was a wasteland that no one wanted to live in. It took the 6 day war to free the Palestinians of their fetters and give them back their freedom.

Actually it was lovely. and peaceful .... almond trees and olive trees, pomegranates ..

You are just mean and ignorant SOB.

All because the Jews were ethnically cleansed from the land by force of arms. I am truthful and a pragmatist that knows how to unearth the truth.

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/8/refugees.pdf

A June 2003 study of Jewish refugees, the first of its kind, casts their flight from Arab lands in a new light. The study, “Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries: The Case for Rights and Redress,”48 compiled by a team of scholars and other professionals, sheds new light on the nature of the pressures that forced 97 percent of all the Jews in Arab countries to flee ancient well-integrated Jewish communities, some of which had existed for more than 2,500 years.

 

[Phoenall]

Wrong again as they became British and French citizens of Palestine

I guess you get your history lessons from Fox News. The non-Jews were all Palestinian citizens from Ottoman times, and the Mandate required the Mandatory to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by the new arrivals (Jews).

ART. 7. of the Mandate:

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

No Palestinian nation until 1988, the treaty that is being quoted states that they were ottoman subjects, as in all the people Jew , Muslim, Christian and atheist. The treaty of Lausanne said that as of the fall of the ottoman empire the people became subjects on the ruling power, which was Britain and France not Palestine. It had nothing to do with the mandate as that did not come into being till 1923.

 

[Phoenall]

only amongst nazi anti semitic jew haters

You appear to believe that only Nazis and anti-Semites believe that Israel has violated international law.

Such an attitude isn't helpful.

Show me otherwise and I will show you a NAZI

 

[Phoenall]

Then do explain the arab league charter. The PLO charter. The hamas charter and the fatah charter that all say that Israel must be destroyed.

This peace of 2002 what were the demands placed on Israel that go against the UN charter and the Geneva conventions. Would it be right of return to Israel by 4 million muslims that had never lived there ?
Return to 1967 borders that had never existed and capitulation and mass suicide so the arabs could take over.

The PA amended their charter more than a decade ago.

No they didn't as they could not get the required number of delegates to the meeting, it was engineered that way by the PLO.

Unless you have proof like a copy of the new charter signed and dated by the full P.A council.