Israel violated Lebanons territory over 3000 times in 2012

[ima]

Jews correctly and properly claim that the land is the homeland of jews---since Judaism
was founded there -

So since Christianity was started in the area, shouldn't catholics and protestants lay claim to the land as well? And when are you moving off of Indian land? Anytime soon?

In fact----christianity developed in ROME not palestine

I guess the guy called Jesus, who was born in bethlehem, and who started christianity doesn't count?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You can't have your cake, and eat too.

To follow through from the fact that Israel did not win the 1948 war is the fact that Israel did not win any land in that war.

(COMMENT)

You will note, that in an Armistice Arrangement, it is all about the cessation of hostilities; not about winners or losers. The war was unresolved. It was resolved in 1967 (Third Arab-Israeli War), when the Armistice arrangement was broken and a clear winner was established and a new ceasefire was put in place to save the encircled Egyptian Army.

Second, you cannot claim in one argument that the that no land can be won by Israel in conquest, and then go back and say the 1948 War disolved Israeli borders in favor of the Arab attack. In war, possession and control is a powerful position to hold.

Israel came out of the 1948 war with no land and no borders.

(COMMENT)

Clearly, this is wishful thinking. The reality and legacy of that initial conflict, is with us still today. You may think, and you may claim, all you want. But at the end of the day (20 July '49), Israel was still there and Armistice Demarcation Lines (Green & Blue) were established. You can call them borders or you can call them lines - you can argue a blue streak and present all the facts you want; but you can't call the territory Arab while an Israeli battle flag still flies.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

Mr. R tinnie plays word games do not disparage him-----it is all he has

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You can't have your cake, and eat too.

To follow through from the fact that Israel did not win the 1948 war is the fact that Israel did not win any land in that war.

(COMMENT)

You will note, that in an Armistice Arrangement, it is all about the cessation of hostilities; not about winners or losers. The war was unresolved. It was resolved in 1967 (Third Arab-Israeli War), when the Armistice arrangement was broken and a clear winner was established and a new ceasefire was put in place to save the encircled Egyptian Army.

Second, you cannot claim in one argument that the that no land can be won by Israel in conquest, and then go back and say the 1948 War disolved Israeli borders in favor of the Arab attack. In war, possession and control is a powerful position to hold.

Israel came out of the 1948 war with no land and no borders.

(COMMENT)

Clearly, this is wishful thinking. The reality and legacy of that initial conflict, is with us still today. You may think, and you may claim, all you want. But at the end of the day (20 July '49), Israel was still there and Armistice Demarcation Lines (Green & Blue) were established. You can call them borders or you can call them lines - you can argue a blue streak and present all the facts you want; but you can't call the territory Arab while an Israeli battle flag still flies.

Most Respectfully,
R

If you look at the events, and the result of those events, you will get a clearer picture.

The Palestine Mandate

The mandate was a monumental flop. Britain could never square the circle it had created. It was getting shot at from both sides. It left without ceding any land or sovereignty to the Zionists. Since the mandate was an administrative, not an ownership position, Palestine was not theirs to give away. Palestine still existed inside its international borders after the end of the mandate.

UNGA Resolution 181

Resolution 181 proposed to partition Palestine. (The 2 state solution) Borders were proposed. Resolution 181 could not be implemented without the approval of both sides. To implement resolution 181 without the approval of both sides would violate international law and the UN Charter. The Security Council did not implement resolution 181. No land was transferred. No borders were changed. No states were created.

Israel's declaration of independence

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. Since the mandate was the administration of Palestine not the owner, there was nothing tangible that could be derived from that declaration. Israel did not claim any land or define any borders. Israel still has not done so.

The 1948 war

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

How many Arab states attacked Israel?

The Arabs won? LOL!

Israel lost land? LOL!

Poor Tinny, hopefully you'll make more sense in the New Year.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

How many Arab states attacked Israel?

None

The Arabs won? LOL!

An armistice was called by UN Security Council resolution. Nobody won.

Israel lost land? LOL!

Israel didn't lose anything. It had nothing to lose.

Poor Tinny, hopefully you'll make more sense in the New Year.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

How many Arab states attacked Israel?

None

The Arabs won? LOL!

An armistice was called by UN Security Council resolution. Nobody won.

Israel lost land? LOL!

Israel didn't lose anything. It had nothing to lose.

Poor Tinny, hopefully you'll make more sense in the New Year.

If it wasn't 5 Arabs states, who did the Israelis fight?

They called an armistice and Israel controlled more land than before the Arabs invaded.
Sounds like a win and a gain in land.

Nothing to lose? The Arabs wanted them all dead. The Arabs failed. Israel won.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

How many Arab states attacked Israel?

None



An armistice was called by UN Security Council resolution. Nobody won.



Israel didn't lose anything. It had nothing to lose.

Poor Tinny, hopefully you'll make more sense in the New Year.

If it wasn't 5 Arabs states, who did the Israelis fight?

The question is not who but where. Post a 1948 map of Israel showing where it was attacked.

They called an armistice and Israel controlled more land than before the Arabs invaded.
Sounds like a win and a gain in land.

The correct term is occupied. Israel didn't win anything.

Nothing to lose? The Arabs wanted them all dead. The Arabs failed. Israel won.

OK, but that is not a land or border issue.

 

[irosie91]

Todd---months ago tinnie elaborated in his twisted mind----
an absurd bit of sophistry with which he imagines he
has "proven" Israel does not exist. He is a wannabee
JOHNATHAN SWIFT -----have compassion on him---
he continues to post up his bit of worthless nonsense

 

[Hossfly]

None



An armistice was called by UN Security Council resolution. Nobody won.



Israel didn't lose anything. It had nothing to lose.

If it wasn't 5 Arabs states, who did the Israelis fight?

The question is not who but where. Post a 1948 map of Israel showing where it was attacked.

They called an armistice and Israel controlled more land than before the Arabs invaded.
Sounds like a win and a gain in land.

The correct term is occupied. Israel didn't win anything.

Nothing to lose? The Arabs wanted them all dead. The Arabs failed. Israel won.

OK, but that is not a land or border issue.

Tinmore, Spongebob is gonna graduate boating school before you do.

 

[irosie91]

Tinnie does a very bad attampt of emulation of Johnathan Swift-----but he
actually imagines himself "BRILLIANT"

 

[irosie91]

So since Christianity was started in the area, shouldn't catholics and protestants lay claim to the land as well? And when are you moving off of Indian land? Anytime soon?

In fact----christianity developed in ROME not palestine

I guess the guy called Jesus, who was born in bethlehem, and who started christianity doesn't count?

The guy called Jesus----got called "JESUS" because that is a greek form. The
person they were calling "JESUS" did not speak greek and did not know that name.
He knew the name YESHUA ---which is an aramaic form of Yehoshua ---which
was the name of the guy to whom you refer. The religion called "christianity"
developed long after the death of the person named Yehoshua aka Yeshua.
and not in Judea.

The writings of the early persons who developed christianity were largely in
greek---greek was the "scholarly" langauge of the day-----It is believed
that PAUL was greek In those days there were several greek
converts to Judaism-----some of them notable talmudists. Judaism did
not only get born in Israel/Judea----it was the country in which the jews
as a nation developed over many centuries---------and have considered a
"homeland" for millenia. In fact there are aspects of christianity which
specifically reject the idea of a "homeland"----since christianity is
a UTOPIAN IDEOLOGY whicn includes a vision of WORLD WIDE
christianity------just as islam includes a vision of WORLD WIDE islam.

This idea mimics that of the pre christian romans in the concept of
PAX ROMANA -----world wide ROMAN control and roman "culture"

Judaism does not include an evangelical program as to those above

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

None



An armistice was called by UN Security Council resolution. Nobody won.



Israel didn't lose anything. It had nothing to lose.

If it wasn't 5 Arabs states, who did the Israelis fight?

The question is not who but where. Post a 1948 map of Israel showing where it was attacked.

They called an armistice and Israel controlled more land than before the Arabs invaded.
Sounds like a win and a gain in land.

The correct term is occupied. Israel didn't win anything.

Nothing to lose? The Arabs wanted them all dead. The Arabs failed. Israel won.

OK, but that is not a land or border issue.

The question is not who but where.

No, my question is who.

The correct term is occupied. Israel didn't win anything.

They've held that land for over 60 years. That's an Arab loss and an Israeli win.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd---months ago tinnie elaborated in his twisted mind----
an absurd bit of sophistry with which he imagines he
has "proven" Israel does not exist. He is a wannabee
JOHNATHAN SWIFT -----have compassion on him---
he continues to post up his bit of worthless nonsense

He does go to absurd lengths to deny all the Arab losses.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think we interpret the history differently.

The Palestine Mandate

The mandate was a monumental flop. Britain could never square the circle it had created. It was getting shot at from both sides. It left without ceding any land or sovereignty to the Zionists. Since the mandate was an administrative, not an ownership position, Palestine was not theirs to give away. Palestine still existed inside its international borders after the end of the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the British certainly didn't like the way the Arabs took to liberation, that is for sure. Nor did they appreciate the mounting terrorist pressure by the various Jewish activities.

BUT, Palestine is a name of a Region, not a country. No central Middle East nation of today was under its own control. The Western Alliances created these countries, as they exist today (with the exception of Saudi Arabia).

• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• ***Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Saudi Arabia: Independence: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)

Israel's declaration of independence

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. Since the mandate was the administration of Palestine not the owner, there was nothing tangible that could be derived from that declaration. Israel did not claim any land or define any borders. Israel still has not done so.

(COMMENT)

It did define itself. You just decline to recognize the Application and Acceptance process. It is, by the way, the exact same process that the other Middle Eastern nations (Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria) used to declare their independence from their respective mandates.

You keep using words like "ownership." Let me make this as clear as I can make it. "Ownership" is a personal property term. It has absolutely nothing to do with national sovereignty or national boundaries.

Certainly none of the Middle Eastern Arab nations existed in the form they exist today before the 20th Century. Nearly all the Arab familiar lands had lost control of their respective territories to other more competent and advanced cultures.

The 1948 war

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

(COMMENT)

Yes, and here again, you interpret the history that best suits your agenda. There is no question that Israel was attacked by the five newly formed Arab nations.

An Armistice was signed, and later broken. Yes, it is clear that you can split the hair and say that Israel did not win. But it still maintained control. So, possession is what it is. It was power to regulate its internal affairs without foreign interference. Israel had the power of the state to govern itself such as making laws, taxes, and treaties.

Israel doesn't claim it won the territory, it claims to have successfully defended its territory. There must have been some accuracy to that. On 11 May 1949, it was admitted to the UN after the UN acknowledged its creation.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think we interpret the history differently.

The Palestine Mandate

The mandate was a monumental flop. Britain could never square the circle it had created. It was getting shot at from both sides. It left without ceding any land or sovereignty to the Zionists. Since the mandate was an administrative, not an ownership position, Palestine was not theirs to give away. Palestine still existed inside its international borders after the end of the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the British certainly didn't like the way the Arabs took to liberation, that is for sure. Nor did they appreciate the mounting terrorist pressure by the various Jewish activities.

BUT, Palestine is a name of a Region, not a country. No central Middle East nation of today was under its own control. The Western Alliances created these countries, as they exist today (with the exception of Saudi Arabia).

• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• ***Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Saudi Arabia: Independence: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)

Israel's declaration of independence

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. Since the mandate was the administration of Palestine not the owner, there was nothing tangible that could be derived from that declaration. Israel did not claim any land or define any borders. Israel still has not done so.

(COMMENT)

It did define itself. You just decline to recognize the Application and Acceptance process. It is, by the way, the exact same process that the other Middle Eastern nations (Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria) used to declare their independence from their respective mandates.

You keep using words like "ownership." Let me make this as clear as I can make it. "Ownership" is a personal property term. It has absolutely nothing to do with national sovereignty or national boundaries.

Certainly none of the Middle Eastern Arab nations existed in the form they exist today before the 20th Century. Nearly all the Arab familiar lands had lost control of their respective territories to other more competent and advanced cultures.

The 1948 war

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

(COMMENT)

Yes, and here again, you interpret the history that best suits your agenda. There is no question that Israel was attacked by the five newly formed Arab nations.

An Armistice was signed, and later broken. Yes, it is clear that you can split the hair and say that Israel did not win. But it still maintained control. So, possession is what it is. It was power to regulate its internal affairs without foreign interference. Israel had the power of the state to govern itself such as making laws, taxes, and treaties.

Israel doesn't claim it won the territory, it claims to have successfully defended its territory. There must have been some accuracy to that. On 11 May 1949, it was admitted to the UN after the UN acknowledged its creation.

Most Respectfully,
R

Wow, did Tinnie actually say that Israel wasn't attacked by five states???? My goodness, some of the crap that people spew on these boards !

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think we interpret the history differently.

The Palestine Mandate

The mandate was a monumental flop. Britain could never square the circle it had created. It was getting shot at from both sides. It left without ceding any land or sovereignty to the Zionists. Since the mandate was an administrative, not an ownership position, Palestine was not theirs to give away. Palestine still existed inside its international borders after the end of the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the British certainly didn't like the way the Arabs took to liberation, that is for sure. Nor did they appreciate the mounting terrorist pressure by the various Jewish activities.

BUT, Palestine is a name of a Region, not a country. No central Middle East nation of today was under its own control. The Western Alliances created these countries, as they exist today (with the exception of Saudi Arabia).

• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• ***Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Saudi Arabia: Independence: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)

Israel's declaration of independence

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. Since the mandate was the administration of Palestine not the owner, there was nothing tangible that could be derived from that declaration. Israel did not claim any land or define any borders. Israel still has not done so.

(COMMENT)

It did define itself. You just decline to recognize the Application and Acceptance process. It is, by the way, the exact same process that the other Middle Eastern nations (Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria) used to declare their independence from their respective mandates.

You keep using words like "ownership." Let me make this as clear as I can make it. "Ownership" is a personal property term. It has absolutely nothing to do with national sovereignty or national boundaries.

Certainly none of the Middle Eastern Arab nations existed in the form they exist today before the 20th Century. Nearly all the Arab familiar lands had lost control of their respective territories to other more competent and advanced cultures.

The 1948 war

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

(COMMENT)

Yes, and here again, you interpret the history that best suits your agenda. There is no question that Israel was attacked by the five newly formed Arab nations.

An Armistice was signed, and later broken. Yes, it is clear that you can split the hair and say that Israel did not win. But it still maintained control. So, possession is what it is. It was power to regulate its internal affairs without foreign interference. Israel had the power of the state to govern itself such as making laws, taxes, and treaties.

Israel doesn't claim it won the territory, it claims to have successfully defended its territory. There must have been some accuracy to that. On 11 May 1949, it was admitted to the UN after the UN acknowledged its creation.

Most Respectfully,
R

re·gion [rjən]
(plural re·gions)
n
1. area of land: a large land area that has geographic, political, or cultural characteristics that distinguish it from others, whether existing within one country or extending over several
2. administrative unit: a large separate political or administrative unit within a country
3. ecological area: an area of the world with particular animal and plant life
4. large indefinite area: any large indefinite area of a surface

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

coun·try [kúntree]
n (plural coun·tries)
1. separate nation: a nation or state that is politically independent, or a land that was formerly independent and remains separate in some respects
2. homeland: the nation or state where somebody was born or is a citizen
3. geographically distinct area: a large area of land regarded as distinct from other areas, e.g. because of its natural boundaries or because it is inhabited by a specific group of people

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Let's look at the key points.

Region A large indefinite area within one country or extending over several.

Country A geographically distinct area that is inhabited by a specific group of people.

Palestine is a geographically distinct area inside defined international borders. It is inhabited by people who have a shared history within those borders the vast majority of whom were born there.

What criteria would you use to define Palestine a region?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think we interpret the history differently.

The Palestine Mandate

The mandate was a monumental flop. Britain could never square the circle it had created. It was getting shot at from both sides. It left without ceding any land or sovereignty to the Zionists. Since the mandate was an administrative, not an ownership position, Palestine was not theirs to give away. Palestine still existed inside its international borders after the end of the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the British certainly didn't like the way the Arabs took to liberation, that is for sure. Nor did they appreciate the mounting terrorist pressure by the various Jewish activities.

BUT, Palestine is a name of a Region, not a country. No central Middle East nation of today was under its own control. The Western Alliances created these countries, as they exist today (with the exception of Saudi Arabia).

• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• ***Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Saudi Arabia: Independence: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)

Israel's declaration of independence

Israel declared its independence from the mandate. Since the mandate was the administration of Palestine not the owner, there was nothing tangible that could be derived from that declaration. Israel did not claim any land or define any borders. Israel still has not done so.

(COMMENT)

It did define itself. You just decline to recognize the Application and Acceptance process. It is, by the way, the exact same process that the other Middle Eastern nations (Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria) used to declare their independence from their respective mandates.

You keep using words like "ownership." Let me make this as clear as I can make it. "Ownership" is a personal property term. It has absolutely nothing to do with national sovereignty or national boundaries.

Certainly none of the Middle Eastern Arab nations existed in the form they exist today before the 20th Century. Nearly all the Arab familiar lands had lost control of their respective territories to other more competent and advanced cultures.

The 1948 war

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

(COMMENT)

Yes, and here again, you interpret the history that best suits your agenda. There is no question that Israel was attacked by the five newly formed Arab nations.

An Armistice was signed, and later broken. Yes, it is clear that you can split the hair and say that Israel did not win. But it still maintained control. So, possession is what it is. It was power to regulate its internal affairs without foreign interference. Israel had the power of the state to govern itself such as making laws, taxes, and treaties.

Israel doesn't claim it won the territory, it claims to have successfully defended its territory. There must have been some accuracy to that. On 11 May 1949, it was admitted to the UN after the UN acknowledged its creation.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is no question that there was a war. There is no question who was involved.

The question I have is was a place called Israel attacked. So far nobody has been able to produce a 1948 map of Israel showing where these Arab countries crossed a border into Israel. Historical reports say that these countries entered Palestine and fought Israeli troops in Palestine.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think we interpret the history differently.

The Palestine Mandate

The mandate was a monumental flop. Britain could never square the circle it had created. It was getting shot at from both sides. It left without ceding any land or sovereignty to the Zionists. Since the mandate was an administrative, not an ownership position, Palestine was not theirs to give away. Palestine still existed inside its international borders after the end of the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the British certainly didn't like the way the Arabs took to liberation, that is for sure. Nor did they appreciate the mounting terrorist pressure by the various Jewish activities.

BUT, Palestine is a name of a Region, not a country. No central Middle East nation of today was under its own control. The Western Alliances created these countries, as they exist today (with the exception of Saudi Arabia).

• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• ***Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Saudi Arabia: Independence: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)

(COMMENT)

It did define itself. You just decline to recognize the Application and Acceptance process. It is, by the way, the exact same process that the other Middle Eastern nations (Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria) used to declare their independence from their respective mandates.

You keep using words like "ownership." Let me make this as clear as I can make it. "Ownership" is a personal property term. It has absolutely nothing to do with national sovereignty or national boundaries.

Certainly none of the Middle Eastern Arab nations existed in the form they exist today before the 20th Century. Nearly all the Arab familiar lands had lost control of their respective territories to other more competent and advanced cultures.

The 1948 war

Israel claims That it was attacked by five Arab states, the Arabs lost, and Israel won land.

All three of those accounts are false.

(COMMENT)

Yes, and here again, you interpret the history that best suits your agenda. There is no question that Israel was attacked by the five newly formed Arab nations.

An Armistice was signed, and later broken. Yes, it is clear that you can split the hair and say that Israel did not win. But it still maintained control. So, possession is what it is. It was power to regulate its internal affairs without foreign interference. Israel had the power of the state to govern itself such as making laws, taxes, and treaties.

Israel doesn't claim it won the territory, it claims to have successfully defended its territory. There must have been some accuracy to that. On 11 May 1949, it was admitted to the UN after the UN acknowledged its creation.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is no question that there was a war. There is no question who was involved.

The question I have is was a place called Israel attacked. So far nobody has been able to produce a 1948 map of Israel showing where these Arab countries crossed a border into Israel. Historical reports say that these countries entered Palestine and fought Israeli troops in Palestine.

Oh, Brother!

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think we interpret the history differently.


(COMMENT)

Yes, the British certainly didn't like the way the Arabs took to liberation, that is for sure. Nor did they appreciate the mounting terrorist pressure by the various Jewish activities.

BUT, Palestine is a name of a Region, not a country. No central Middle East nation of today was under its own control. The Western Alliances created these countries, as they exist today (with the exception of Saudi Arabia).

• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK protectorate status; the revolution that began on 23 July 1952 led to a republic being declared on 18 June 1953 and all British troops withdrawn on 18 June 1956)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• ***Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Saudi Arabia: Independence: 23 September 1932 (unification of the kingdom)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)

(COMMENT)

It did define itself. You just decline to recognize the Application and Acceptance process. It is, by the way, the exact same process that the other Middle Eastern nations (Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria) used to declare their independence from their respective mandates.

You keep using words like "ownership." Let me make this as clear as I can make it. "Ownership" is a personal property term. It has absolutely nothing to do with national sovereignty or national boundaries.

Certainly none of the Middle Eastern Arab nations existed in the form they exist today before the 20th Century. Nearly all the Arab familiar lands had lost control of their respective territories to other more competent and advanced cultures.


(COMMENT)

Yes, and here again, you interpret the history that best suits your agenda. There is no question that Israel was attacked by the five newly formed Arab nations.

An Armistice was signed, and later broken. Yes, it is clear that you can split the hair and say that Israel did not win. But it still maintained control. So, possession is what it is. It was power to regulate its internal affairs without foreign interference. Israel had the power of the state to govern itself such as making laws, taxes, and treaties.

Israel doesn't claim it won the territory, it claims to have successfully defended its territory. There must have been some accuracy to that. On 11 May 1949, it was admitted to the UN after the UN acknowledged its creation.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is no question that there was a war. There is no question who was involved.

The question I have is was a place called Israel attacked. So far nobody has been able to produce a 1948 map of Israel showing where these Arab countries crossed a border into Israel. Historical reports say that these countries entered Palestine and fought Israeli troops in Palestine.

Oh, Brother!

Oh, you have a 1948 map of Israel?