Hossfly
ZIONIST
Yeah, but it's classified material. And...... that area was called Palestine in those days. Everyone understands that.
Israel violated Lebanons territory over 3000 times in 2012
- Thread starter LA RAM FAN
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RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
There are two meanings to Palestine, as to what it is. It has been made more complicated by the recent intervention by the UN (again) in the implicit (rather than expressly stated) status when the General Assembly grants Palestine non-member observer State status at UN.
Reference:
What complicates it further is the fact that some people try to apply layman level definitions to issues that have specific technical definitions. This is a child-like approach to very politically entangled and emotionally charged issues.
The historic Palestine covers a very wide region, including Israel and some very large swaths in Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
In dispute today, Palestine (as in the recent UN implicit recognition) represents a much smaller area. The Palestinians, as represented by Palestinian Authority (PA) (largely Fatah led) President Mahmoud Abbas, attempts to seek recognition based on the 1967 borders; Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem.
However, all Palestinians don't recognize Mahmoud Abbas as the authoritative voice. HAMAS, in the form of the Political Bureau Chief Izzat Al Rishq, was pretty emphatic that HAMAS demands control over the "Occupied Territories" and Israel. The Deputy Leader Moussa Abu Marzouk, has no intention of stopping the flow of weapons into Gaza to continue the struggle against Israel.
Realistically, even the Palestinians don't know what they mean when they say "Palestine." It is undefined and dependent on the context in which it is use by the politically slanted agenda in which it is being applied. I have to listen closely as to which Palestinian is talking about what. But it is clear that the PA (Abbas) , which has a realistic intent acceptable to the International Community, has a much different view of Palestine then does the de facto Leaders of HAMAS (Khaled Meshal and Moussa Abu Marzouk), or the Prime Minister of Gaza (Ismail Haniya).
Palestine has no coherent leadership, whatever you want to call Palestine. But because it has no single voice, no coherent leadership, and no consistent policy for peace, it is not a country. It has no real unified government control over the any aspect of Palestine.
Most Respectfully,
R
There are two meanings to Palestine, as to what it is. It has been made more complicated by the recent intervention by the UN (again) in the implicit (rather than expressly stated) status when the General Assembly grants Palestine non-member observer State status at UN.
Reference:
What complicates it further is the fact that some people try to apply layman level definitions to issues that have specific technical definitions. This is a child-like approach to very politically entangled and emotionally charged issues.
(COMMENT)
The historic Palestine covers a very wide region, including Israel and some very large swaths in Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
In dispute today, Palestine (as in the recent UN implicit recognition) represents a much smaller area. The Palestinians, as represented by Palestinian Authority (PA) (largely Fatah led) President Mahmoud Abbas, attempts to seek recognition based on the 1967 borders; Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem.
However, all Palestinians don't recognize Mahmoud Abbas as the authoritative voice. HAMAS, in the form of the Political Bureau Chief Izzat Al Rishq, was pretty emphatic that HAMAS demands control over the "Occupied Territories" and Israel. The Deputy Leader Moussa Abu Marzouk, has no intention of stopping the flow of weapons into Gaza to continue the struggle against Israel.
(COMMENT)
Realistically, even the Palestinians don't know what they mean when they say "Palestine." It is undefined and dependent on the context in which it is use by the politically slanted agenda in which it is being applied. I have to listen closely as to which Palestinian is talking about what. But it is clear that the PA (Abbas) , which has a realistic intent acceptable to the International Community, has a much different view of Palestine then does the de facto Leaders of HAMAS (Khaled Meshal and Moussa Abu Marzouk), or the Prime Minister of Gaza (Ismail Haniya).
Palestine has no coherent leadership, whatever you want to call Palestine. But because it has no single voice, no coherent leadership, and no consistent policy for peace, it is not a country. It has no real unified government control over the any aspect of Palestine.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,524
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Palestine's government is screwed by design. The US/Israeli design.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ai-Udti1M]On The Map with Avi Lewis: Gaza Coup d'Etat? - YouTube[/ame]
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
Of course. I can't imagine the Palestinians taking the responsibility for anything they do to themselves. With the Palestinian, anything that goes wrong is somebody else's fault.
For nearly three (3) generations, the Palestinian has done nothing but advocate death, destruction, and war. They are not a culture of peace, they are not a people that build nations, and they certainly are not even trying.
Yes, and this is somehow America's fault and Israel's fault.
The dispute between HAMAS and the Palestinian Authority is really --- a Palestinian-on-Palestinian confrontation. And believe me, in a few years, there is going to be a rise in the number of people, worldwide, that will come to understand that the Palestinian, not only has nothing to offer the world, but is no longer capable of even being a productive member of the International Community.
Their father taught them how to be a terrorist fighter, just like their father before them; and their father before them. And it goes on and on. They will become a international ghetto. And of course, it will be somebody else's fault.
They know how to build bombs/IEDs. They know the basics of firing a rocket and mortar. They know how to ambush buses and cars. They know how to conduct a suicide bombing. They know how to shoot and murder. But they don't know how to build a community (and keep it clean), they can't assemble a working government, they don't know how to build and economy (and keep it prosperous), and they don't know how to interact with the rest of the world (play well with others). In effect, they are virtual children that are parentless and without guidance --- but have a weapon in their hands. The name Palestinian is almost synonymous with terrorist. And they want to act like little pompous Resistance Fights on some mission from God. (I have to chuckle a bit every time I hear that religious overtone.)
More importantly, this is self destructive cycle, a destiny of their own choosing, and it is infectious. They inflect the everyone around them, including the Israeli, who begin to see them --- not as people --- but as a blight on the Mediterranean. You are often judged by the friends you keep, and the Palestinians (not being truly homogeneous) are a conglomerate of terrorist organizations that have one common ally and benefactor: Iran. Wow, talk about a country that plays well with others.
What does the Palestinian contribute to the world? Trouble!
Most Respectfully,
R
Of course. I can't imagine the Palestinians taking the responsibility for anything they do to themselves. With the Palestinian, anything that goes wrong is somebody else's fault.
(COMMENT)
For nearly three (3) generations, the Palestinian has done nothing but advocate death, destruction, and war. They are not a culture of peace, they are not a people that build nations, and they certainly are not even trying.
Yes, and this is somehow America's fault and Israel's fault.
The dispute between HAMAS and the Palestinian Authority is really --- a Palestinian-on-Palestinian confrontation. And believe me, in a few years, there is going to be a rise in the number of people, worldwide, that will come to understand that the Palestinian, not only has nothing to offer the world, but is no longer capable of even being a productive member of the International Community.
Their father taught them how to be a terrorist fighter, just like their father before them; and their father before them. And it goes on and on. They will become a international ghetto. And of course, it will be somebody else's fault.
They know how to build bombs/IEDs. They know the basics of firing a rocket and mortar. They know how to ambush buses and cars. They know how to conduct a suicide bombing. They know how to shoot and murder. But they don't know how to build a community (and keep it clean), they can't assemble a working government, they don't know how to build and economy (and keep it prosperous), and they don't know how to interact with the rest of the world (play well with others). In effect, they are virtual children that are parentless and without guidance --- but have a weapon in their hands. The name Palestinian is almost synonymous with terrorist. And they want to act like little pompous Resistance Fights on some mission from God. (I have to chuckle a bit every time I hear that religious overtone.)
More importantly, this is self destructive cycle, a destiny of their own choosing, and it is infectious. They inflect the everyone around them, including the Israeli, who begin to see them --- not as people --- but as a blight on the Mediterranean. You are often judged by the friends you keep, and the Palestinians (not being truly homogeneous) are a conglomerate of terrorist organizations that have one common ally and benefactor: Iran. Wow, talk about a country that plays well with others.
What does the Palestinian contribute to the world? Trouble!
Most Respectfully,
R
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Mr. R I encountered Pakistanis long before I encountered gazans and
west bank people.
Pakistan is a real mess----in fact I was working with lots of Pakistanis----
right there in the late 60s and early 70s when the country split from being
one "west and east pakistan" into two "pakistan and bangladesh" via a
very bloody war. ------Now try to guess who "CREATED ALL THE PROBLEMS
OF PAKISTAN"----<< that includes incessant blood shed, assassinations
of leaders,, shooting down shiites in the streets, gross graft and corruption...
.....
did you guess yet ??
ANSWER------ (its a single word as learned in pakistani medical schools)
THE-ZIONIST-CONTROLLED-CIA
i learned this word circa 1970
west bank people.
Pakistan is a real mess----in fact I was working with lots of Pakistanis----
right there in the late 60s and early 70s when the country split from being
one "west and east pakistan" into two "pakistan and bangladesh" via a
very bloody war. ------Now try to guess who "CREATED ALL THE PROBLEMS
OF PAKISTAN"----<< that includes incessant blood shed, assassinations
of leaders,, shooting down shiites in the streets, gross graft and corruption...
.....
did you guess yet ??
ANSWER------ (its a single word as learned in pakistani medical schools)
THE-ZIONIST-CONTROLLED-CIA
i learned this word circa 1970
georgephillip
Diamond Member
"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a 'Jewish homeland' in Palestine meant for the British Empire: 'It will form for England,” he said, 'a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.'”
Was he correct?
Was George Kennan on board?
While it's impossible not to notice Palestinian tendencies of self-destruction, there are at least as many of them living between the River and the sea as there are Jews. Neither nation is planning to quit the field. What is the optimum solution to this dilemma, in your opinion?
Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
The british empire is no longer over there in the middle east. I encountered lots
of persons from the INDIAN SUBCONTINENT ---before people from the
middle east------it was long ago -----but still a few decades AFTER the brits left.
I heard about that ----never to end problem CREATED BY THE
****DIVIDE AND CONQUOR ******
libel ---endlessly----from both Indians and Pakistanis----back then ---and since
time to get over it -----kids.
---an interesting factoid-----the DIVIDE AND CONQUOR thing was the actual
reason that the ROMANS inflicted the edomite "king" HEROD on
Israel/judea----2000 years ago and and why they cozied up to the
SADDUCEEES
and inflicted those shills as adminstrators of the TEMPLE----Pharisees
hated them-------which explains the attack in the temple by Jesus----don't
tell sherri------the truth about that event would upset her. She was taught
by her sunday school teacher that the "money changers" were jewish
money lenders like SHYLOCK
of persons from the INDIAN SUBCONTINENT ---before people from the
middle east------it was long ago -----but still a few decades AFTER the brits left.
I heard about that ----never to end problem CREATED BY THE
****DIVIDE AND CONQUOR ******
libel ---endlessly----from both Indians and Pakistanis----back then ---and since
time to get over it -----kids.
---an interesting factoid-----the DIVIDE AND CONQUOR thing was the actual
reason that the ROMANS inflicted the edomite "king" HEROD on
Israel/judea----2000 years ago and and why they cozied up to the
SADDUCEEES
and inflicted those shills as adminstrators of the TEMPLE----Pharisees
hated them-------which explains the attack in the temple by Jesus----don't
tell sherri------the truth about that event would upset her. She was taught
by her sunday school teacher that the "money changers" were jewish
money lenders like SHYLOCK
georgephillip
Diamond Member
"Storrs’ analogy was no accident. Ireland was where the English invented the tactic of divide and conquer, and where the devastating effectiveness of using foreign settlers to drive a wedge between the colonial rulers and the colonized made it a template for worldwide imperial rule."
BTW, are you alleging the money changers in the temple were NOT Jews?
Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
BTW, are you alleging the money changers in the temple were NOT Jews?
Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF
You get stupider and stupider Georgie I did not allege that the MONEY CHANGERS
in the temple were not jews-----and the brits did not "INVENT" the idea of "divide and
conquor"
I will skip over the divide and conquor "invention" -----and move along to the money
changers I grew up with the CHRISTMAS STORY "awaaaay in the maaanger"
is one of the first songs I ever learned ---so over time I did learn that which is the
basic christian party-line for consumption by the naive members. One of the naive
"beliefs" is that the MONEY CHANGERS were money lenders because the culture
of medieval christian europe did shove jews into the position of BEING MONEYLENDERS--
so lots of naive christians developed a stereotype which cannot be overcome by fact.
In fact, I would be surprised if sherri did not believe that the MONEY LENDERS
were "pharisees" Well---bad news for you----jews have a long history of
literacy------some 2500 years ago some guy created an EDICT that all jewish boys
must learn to read and it worked-----they did. Thus there is quite a RECORDED
HISTORY. ok ----re: the money changers. They were the guys who changed
foreign coin into local coin------Jerusalem was an attraction to neighboring
peoples including non jews to some extent----- and the court yard of the
temple was OPENED and----had become
something like a little market place with some level of corruption----by the romans
and their SADDUCEE SHILLS The PHARISEES (basically the religious) were
INCENSED and wanted the money changers OUT OF THERE because they
saw them as facilitating corruption Got that ? Jesus was a pharisee so
he did what pharsees were doing quite a bit-----for the romans and their
pimary plant-----CAIAPHAS-----that was an act of SEDITION,
got it now? it is easy if you know the facts. Do not ask a religious
jew-----they never read the new testament . I was brought up with it.
The way Sherri posts ----it seems to me that SHE never actually read it
with any level of comprehension
The average christian has no concept of the history of that time
or the issues related to the temple in jerusalem or how the
temple functioned----religious jews do----but they know
nothing about jesus-----in some cases only that some
ancestors were murdered in his name ----in fact---often
on christmas eve. My husband was brought up in a
religious family----with origin in a shariah shit hole---- I have to
remind him what christmas and easter celebrate----he keeps
forgetting
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P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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Indeed, Palestine is the poster child of illegal foreign influence.
The previous video was a report from Canada. Here is one about an article from the UK.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utKgXMedqpk]American Sabotage of Palestinian Democracy - YouTube[/ame]
This is the article they were discussing.
The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
There is probably a lot more truth in this story than one might suspect. But again, it is a lot more complicated.
I've said this before, relative to several other topics, and I'll say it again. No one's hands are clean in this Middle East mess; not the US, not the UN, Not the general Arab World, not the factions of Palestinians, and not Israel. They are all complicit either in a misfeasance, malfeasance, or nonfeasance way.
It is to avoid huge mistakes like this that the US should totally back away from the Middle East (a regional block cut diagonally from 40° N x 25° Degrees E - - southward to - - 10° N x 60° E), curtailing any participation what so ever. No aid of any kind to any player. And if the other major powers try to exploit the US withdraw, the US should cancel any favorable aid to them.
This is clearly a region that we have no hope of helping. The Palestinians openly support terrorism and the overthrow of a duly constituted state. This is a problem for the Regional Government to solve. If the other Regional Governments don't want Iran to be the dominant political-military hegemony in the region, then they better tame the beast known as the Palestinians. If they are happy with the Iranians gaining ultimate Regional Control, then all the other Regional Governments need do is remain silent.
(GENERAL COMMENT)
In part, the entire region is gradually falling into the hands of radicals and fundamentalist that have no use for the US. And clearly the US has no skill in developing rapport or alliances with these various factions and governments.
In a thread, some time ago, I mentioned that the US does not have a general policy to support democracy. The US only supports democratic activity that is projected to be favorable towards the US. In fact, it generally supports any government (democracy, despot, totalitarian, communist, etc) that supports US goals, even if we have to pay a nominal fee.
Clearly the US has not helped the plight of the Palestinian people. And the Palestinian people should understand that there is practically nothing the US can do that will be favorable to them. The risk of them turning on the US is just too great. By the same token, there is very little the US can do to save Israel, they are just too stubborn. In many ways the emulate the Palestinians. They are gradually turning into a nation that is just too aggressive and require-some. They have no business expanding their control, and regionally they know that it will not generate any Arab response that is favorable. But the US can't convince either side to play ball. Thus, the US, after 50 years, should just cut its losses and back away.
There is nothing we can do to help either side. We should just let them fight it out, kill-off as many of themselves as humanly possible. When the end is written for Israel and survival is no longer possible, it will probably destroy the various Arab capitals, Jerusalem, and Mecca. Then, the Palestinians can have it all.
Most Respectfully,
R
There is probably a lot more truth in this story than one might suspect. But again, it is a lot more complicated.
(PREFACE)
I've said this before, relative to several other topics, and I'll say it again. No one's hands are clean in this Middle East mess; not the US, not the UN, Not the general Arab World, not the factions of Palestinians, and not Israel. They are all complicit either in a misfeasance, malfeasance, or nonfeasance way.
It is to avoid huge mistakes like this that the US should totally back away from the Middle East (a regional block cut diagonally from 40° N x 25° Degrees E - - southward to - - 10° N x 60° E), curtailing any participation what so ever. No aid of any kind to any player. And if the other major powers try to exploit the US withdraw, the US should cancel any favorable aid to them.
This is clearly a region that we have no hope of helping. The Palestinians openly support terrorism and the overthrow of a duly constituted state. This is a problem for the Regional Government to solve. If the other Regional Governments don't want Iran to be the dominant political-military hegemony in the region, then they better tame the beast known as the Palestinians. If they are happy with the Iranians gaining ultimate Regional Control, then all the other Regional Governments need do is remain silent.
(GENERAL COMMENT)
In part, the entire region is gradually falling into the hands of radicals and fundamentalist that have no use for the US. And clearly the US has no skill in developing rapport or alliances with these various factions and governments.
In a thread, some time ago, I mentioned that the US does not have a general policy to support democracy. The US only supports democratic activity that is projected to be favorable towards the US. In fact, it generally supports any government (democracy, despot, totalitarian, communist, etc) that supports US goals, even if we have to pay a nominal fee.
Clearly the US has not helped the plight of the Palestinian people. And the Palestinian people should understand that there is practically nothing the US can do that will be favorable to them. The risk of them turning on the US is just too great. By the same token, there is very little the US can do to save Israel, they are just too stubborn. In many ways the emulate the Palestinians. They are gradually turning into a nation that is just too aggressive and require-some. They have no business expanding their control, and regionally they know that it will not generate any Arab response that is favorable. But the US can't convince either side to play ball. Thus, the US, after 50 years, should just cut its losses and back away.
There is nothing we can do to help either side. We should just let them fight it out, kill-off as many of themselves as humanly possible. When the end is written for Israel and survival is no longer possible, it will probably destroy the various Arab capitals, Jerusalem, and Mecca. Then, the Palestinians can have it all.
Most Respectfully,
R
Last edited:
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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Do you mean like defending their country?
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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You have been reading too much Israeli propaganda.
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Don't need to do that to know that your Arab buddies have never run a country named Palestine, ever in history.
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
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So who does run this?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHBwE0cx5dQ]Gaza 2011 - your next travel destination - YouTube[/ame]
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
A bunch of terrorists.
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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