Israel planning to purchase three nuclear submarines from Germany

[nicoleivy5]

Israel planning to purchase three nuclear submarines from Germany - full story

The Israel Navy is preparing to upgrade its maritime arsenal with the $1.3 billion purchase of three state-of-the-art submarines from Germany, The Jerusalem Post's sister publication Maariv reported Friday.

The deal is expected to be wrapped up next month in Berlin between senior officials who have secretly negotiated the details of the arrangement over the last months.
According to foreign reports, the navy’s Dolphins provide Israel with nuclear second-strike capabilities, as they can travel far from Israel’s territorial waters and are reportedly able to carry long-range cruise missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Israel planning to purchase three nuclear submarines from Germany - full story

The Israel Navy is preparing to upgrade its maritime arsenal with the $1.3 billion purchase of three state-of-the-art submarines from Germany, The Jerusalem Post's sister publication Maariv reported Friday.

The deal is expected to be wrapped up next month in Berlin between senior officials who have secretly negotiated the details of the arrangement over the last months.
According to foreign reports, the navy’s Dolphins provide Israel with nuclear second-strike capabilities, as they can travel far from Israel’s territorial waters and are reportedly able to carry long-range cruise missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.

what the Israel apologists dont get around here is that is is ISRAEL who is the one the world needs to worry about in starting a nuclear war instead of believing the myth that Iran is the one to worry about.

 

[Penelope]

how many is that now, around 9 subs from Germany with nuclear capabilities. How many are pointed at Washington DC I wonder.

 

[nicoleivy5]

how many is that now, around 9 subs from Germany with nuclear capabilities. How many are pointed at Washington DC I wonder.

probably 3 or 3

 

[Phoenall]

Israel planning to purchase three nuclear submarines from Germany - full story

The Israel Navy is preparing to upgrade its maritime arsenal with the $1.3 billion purchase of three state-of-the-art submarines from Germany, The Jerusalem Post's sister publication Maariv reported Friday.

The deal is expected to be wrapped up next month in Berlin between senior officials who have secretly negotiated the details of the arrangement over the last months.
According to foreign reports, the navy’s Dolphins provide Israel with nuclear second-strike capabilities, as they can travel far from Israel’s territorial waters and are reportedly able to carry long-range cruise missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.

what the Israel apologists dont get around here is that is is ISRAEL who is the one the world needs to worry about in starting a nuclear war instead of believing the myth that Iran is the one to worry about.

WHY ?

Do you even know that when refering to a submarine as nuclear they mean its power source. So these sub's will have a dustbin reactor that will generate the same power that is consumed by a small US city. Time to go and get an education my friend as you are showing yourself up.

 

[Phoenall]

how many is that now, around 9 subs from Germany with nuclear capabilities. How many are pointed at Washington DC I wonder.

Go to your local sub base and ask to be shown round the nuclear boats, they will take you into the missile room to look at the weapons on board. There is one place you will not be allowed and that is the power plant that is the only nuclear thing on board. That is why they are called nuclear subs, because they are powered by dustbin reactors. As are most other navy vessels. The ones capable of carrying even short distance missiles are huge and have a displacement of 48,000 tons

 

[Phoenall]

how many is that now, around 9 subs from Germany with nuclear capabilities. How many are pointed at Washington DC I wonder.

Go to your local sub base and ask to be shown round the nuclear boats, they will take you into the missile room to look at the weapons on board. There is one place you will not be allowed and that is the power plant that is the only nuclear thing on board. That is why they are called nuclear subs, because they are powered by dustbin reactors. As are most other navy vessels. The ones capable of carrying even short distance missiles are huge and have a displacement of 48,000 tons

 

[nicoleivy5]

how many is that now, around 9 subs from Germany with nuclear capabilities. How many are pointed at Washington DC I wonder.

Go to your local sub base and ask to be shown round the nuclear boats, they will take you into the missile room to look at the weapons on board. There is one place you will not be allowed and that is the power plant that is the only nuclear thing on board. That is why they are called nuclear subs, because they are powered by dustbin reactors. As are most other navy vessels. The ones capable of carrying even short distance missiles are huge and have a displacement of 48,000 tons

yeah will try and visit one soon

 

[Phoenall]

how many is that now, around 9 subs from Germany with nuclear capabilities. How many are pointed at Washington DC I wonder.

Go to your local sub base and ask to be shown round the nuclear boats, they will take you into the missile room to look at the weapons on board. There is one place you will not be allowed and that is the power plant that is the only nuclear thing on board. That is why they are called nuclear subs, because they are powered by dustbin reactors. As are most other navy vessels. The ones capable of carrying even short distance missiles are huge and have a displacement of 48,000 tons

yeah will try and visit one soon

I have been to Faslane a few times and been round both types of submarines, not for the faint hearted or people who suffer from claustrophobia. The nuclear armed subs seem so much smaller because so much of them are of limits to even navy personnel. The nuclear powered ones are much bigger because of the smaller power plant.

Good article on wiki in regards to "nuclear subs"

 

[docmauser1]

what the Israel apologists dont get around here is that is is ISRAEL who is the one the world needs to worry about in starting a nuclear war instead of believing the myth that Iran is the one to worry about.

What dumbass jewhating rectums don't understand is that Washington is (and his been for some time) provoking Russia and that can turn into a very hot exchange real fast.

 

[aris2chat]

they have had three delivered within the last year and waiting on the rest of their order.

they were purchased a couple of years ago

They also had their own modification done during manufacturing.

 

[nicoleivy5]

Israel planning to purchase three nuclear submarines from Germany - full story

The Israel Navy is preparing to upgrade its maritime arsenal with the $1.3 billion purchase of three state-of-the-art submarines from Germany, The Jerusalem Post's sister publication Maariv reported Friday.

The deal is expected to be wrapped up next month in Berlin between senior officials who have secretly negotiated the details of the arrangement over the last months.
According to foreign reports, the navy’s Dolphins provide Israel with nuclear second-strike capabilities, as they can travel far from Israel’s territorial waters and are reportedly able to carry long-range cruise missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.

three!! wow so many

 

[fanger]

The first two were a gift, the rest at -50% off, this will be the 6th Diesel powered sub.
Germany does not make Nuclear powered subs

 

[SAYIT]

Israel planning to purchase three nuclear submarines from Germany

Upon further review, it appears the Jerusalem Post article - which does not mention nuclear subs - was mis-titled. Germany's Dolphin class subs are not nuclear powered.

what the Israel apologists dont get around here is that is is ISRAEL who is the one the world needs to worry about in starting a nuclear war instead of believing the myth that Iran is the one to worry about.

So as it turns out, it's a dime-a-dozen USMB Nazi who runs his mouth without the knowledge to make an intelligent comment.

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

And how are those Rams doin', loser?

 

[fanger]

Who Paid and How?
Who paid for the submarines and how also is a touchy matter. The Israelis collect or cash in, but very rarely pay. The usual suspects here are the U.S. or the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG)—which raises the collateral questions of how and why. In the early 1990s the Israelis demanded new, nuclear-capable submarines—but the U.S. is unable to supply conventional boats, since the last diesel electric submarine line was closed more than 20 years ago. Thus, a scheme was contrived where Ingalls Shipbuilding would serve as the front for moving Foreign Military Sales money—restricted in principle for expenditure in the U.S.—to Germany. Ingalls was to be the nominal prime contractor, but would subcontract the subs to Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) in Kiel, thereby circumventing U.S. regulations and creating welcome jobs in the German shipbuilding industry. It is unclear what happened—even though the Israelis had lobbied successfully for the scheme and President George H.W. Bush had approved.

Germany’s Role
The German role is clear, however—albeit rife with anomalies. First, in direct contravention of its explicit restrictions on arms exports, the FRG delivered the submarines. Second, the German government paid for most or all of the bareboat costs.

Germany’s applicable constraints on exports are unusually precise for diplomatic documents:

• “Respect for human rights...is a key factor” in the granting of licences. Israel’s unsavory record is voluminously documented, and the FRG recognizes not only reports by international organizations but also NGOs such as Amnesty International.
• Consideration must be given to whether the recipient is “involved in armed conflict” or where “exports may stir up, perpetuate or exacerbate latent tensions and conflicts.” Facilitating the “nuclearization” of the Indian Ocean certainly applies here.
• It must be weighed whether the recipient country “complies with international obligations” concerning the use of force and international humanitarian law. Israel’s history of flouting the Geneva Conventions is no less well documented.
• The recipient shall have “assumed obligations in the area of non-proliferation.” Here, too, Israel fails the test.

The restrictions are not theoretical. They are often enforced, so that exceptions are all the more egregious. Germany actually does refuse sales to certain countries—even when they are capable of paying—which highlights the extraordinary circumstances of the gift of nuclear-capable Dolphins to Israel. The Saudis, for example, for many years persistently tried to buy—and pay for—Leopard tanks from Germany, and German governments no less persistently spurned the propositions. Indicating a quasi-consistency, Berlin has agreed to sell Turkey submarines—but not tanks or other armor, which, it notes, could be used for internal repression.

The principles have been carried one step further: despite urging from Washington, which has decided to promote greater defense capability for Taiwan, Germany refuses to sell submarines to Taiwan, citing the labile political situation. Here other forces may be at play. According to the FRG policy statement “Labor policy considerations must not be a decisive factor.” Jane’s, however,opined that Germany’s Ministry of Economy seriously feared trade reprisals from Beijing if it sold eight top-of-the-line subs to Taiwan.

Might there be reprisals from the Arab street if it were bruited that Germany had given Israel nuclear submarine capability? Might attacks on Mercedes agencies replace boycotts of McDonald’s? Obviously, the German government discounted such repercussions.

It is not contested that the Dolphins were “donated” to Israel. The sum of DM 1.2 billion was reported in Einzelpost 60, a special account in the Ministry of Finance used for interest payments or ad hoc arrangements. This was subsumed bureaucratically within Germany’s contribution to the Desert Storm begging bowl, even though the U.S. did not receive a penny of the amount.
Israel Expands Its Nuclear Threat Thanks To German "Donation" of Dolphin Subs

 

[SAYIT]

Who Paid and How?
Who paid for the submarines and how also is a touchy matter. The Israelis collect or cash in, but very rarely pay. The usual suspects here are the U.S. or the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG)—which raises the collateral questions of how and why. In the early 1990s the Israelis demanded new, nuclear-capable submarines—but the U.S. is unable to supply conventional boats, since the last diesel electric submarine line was closed more than 20 years ago. Thus, a scheme was contrived where Ingalls Shipbuilding would serve as the front for moving Foreign Military Sales money—restricted in principle for expenditure in the U.S.—to Germany. Ingalls was to be the nominal prime contractor, but would subcontract the subs to Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) in Kiel, thereby circumventing U.S. regulations and creating welcome jobs in the German shipbuilding industry. It is unclear what happened—even though the Israelis had lobbied successfully for the scheme and President George H.W. Bush had approved.

Germany’s Role
The German role is clear, however—albeit rife with anomalies. First, in direct contravention of its explicit restrictions on arms exports, the FRG delivered the submarines. Second, the German government paid for most or all of the bareboat costs.

Germany’s applicable constraints on exports are unusually precise for diplomatic documents:

• “Respect for human rights...is a key factor” in the granting of licences. Israel’s unsavory record is voluminously documented, and the FRG recognizes not only reports by international organizations but also NGOs such as Amnesty International.
• Consideration must be given to whether the recipient is “involved in armed conflict” or where “exports may stir up, perpetuate or exacerbate latent tensions and conflicts.” Facilitating the “nuclearization” of the Indian Ocean certainly applies here.
• It must be weighed whether the recipient country “complies with international obligations” concerning the use of force and international humanitarian law. Israel’s history of flouting the Geneva Conventions is no less well documented.
• The recipient shall have “assumed obligations in the area of non-proliferation.” Here, too, Israel fails the test.

The restrictions are not theoretical. They are often enforced, so that exceptions are all the more egregious. Germany actually does refuse sales to certain countries—even when they are capable of paying—which highlights the extraordinary circumstances of the gift of nuclear-capable Dolphins to Israel. The Saudis, for example, for many years persistently tried to buy—and pay for—Leopard tanks from Germany, and German governments no less persistently spurned the propositions. Indicating a quasi-consistency, Berlin has agreed to sell Turkey submarines—but not tanks or other armor, which, it notes, could be used for internal repression.

The principles have been carried one step further: despite urging from Washington, which has decided to promote greater defense capability for Taiwan, Germany refuses to sell submarines to Taiwan, citing the labile political situation. Here other forces may be at play. According to the FRG policy statement “Labor policy considerations must not be a decisive factor.” Jane’s, however,opined that Germany’s Ministry of Economy seriously feared trade reprisals from Beijing if it sold eight top-of-the-line subs to Taiwan.

Might there be reprisals from the Arab street if it were bruited that Germany had given Israel nuclear submarine capability? Might attacks on Mercedes agencies replace boycotts of McDonald’s? Obviously, the German government discounted such repercussions.

It is not contested that the Dolphins were “donated” to Israel. The sum of DM 1.2 billion was reported in Einzelpost 60, a special account in the Ministry of Finance used for interest payments or ad hoc arrangements. This was subsumed bureaucratically within Germany’s contribution to the Desert Storm begging bowl, even though the U.S. did not receive a penny of the amount.
Israel Expands Its Nuclear Threat Thanks To German "Donation" of Dolphin Subs

Your 13 year old blurb is from an opinion piece written by someone named T.R. Stauffer who, according to longtime friend John Gault, was a good friend of OPEC and an advisor to the oil ministers of several member countries. OPEC invited Tom to speak frequently at its secretariat in Vienna, and awarded Tom a prize for his career accomplishments at the OPEC Seminar in autumn 2004.

The publisher of that hit piece, WRMEA, is a bastion of anti-Israel opinions.

Dr. Thomas R. Stauffer, 1935-2005: Some Personal Reflections

 

[docmauser1]

WRMEA is a smelly outhouse, indeed.

 

[montelatici]

So, what is inaccurate about the article exactly?

 

[docmauser1]

So, what is inaccurate about the article exactly?

Everything, of course. The wrong year, the wrong author, the wrong font, the wrong publication, the wrong etc., what can't go wrong in this situation? And we still haven't found billionaire palistanian saudi sheiks to own 90+% of the british mandate!

 

[Daniyel]

Strategically it would be a disaster for Israel to launch nukes since three nuclear bombs (not talking about hydrogen bombs can easily cover 85% of Israel), nuclear subs are 2nd wave weapon aimed to pose a constant threat for nukes as a one time doomsday intimidation of lunatics, such as Iran that has no actual targets except the Saudis which is the result of the lastly turn of the Iranian regime.

P.S. the subs "Dolphin 2" are capable of carrying nukes.