Vastator
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Actually you don't have a right to know that. But it sounds like you'd like to have such a right...
CDZ Is this image a problem for you? Does it disturb you?
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2aguy
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When guns are a symbol of indadequacy:
Penny's is a violent place apparently...
Bars are a great place for firearms...
Target...another violent place...don't go shopping without dangling an assault style weapon...
Just eating out with my weaponry .... doesn't everyone?
Contrast that with those for whom gun's are just a tool:
So is the gun a statement or a useful tool? My grandfather (and husband) had/have guns. During hunting season, rifles are in use, when not in use, they're safely stored. My grandfather would have laughted at people who feel the need to carry assault type rifles and "massive stopping power" into Penny's.
Yeah.....the bar one? Virginia and allowed concealed carry in bars...their crime rate in bars went down....
Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result
When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.
But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.
According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.
In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.
“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”
Virginia isn't the only state that allows carrying a gun....you just can't drink and carry, just like you can't drive and carry...
So......you guys would laugh at people who carry every day....tell us, do you know exactly when you will be violently attacked by a criminal? Because a lot of women who are violently raped, a lot of people who are brutally beaten and robbed, and a lot of people murdered by criminals sure could have used your psychic abilities.....
I think allowing guns in bars is a VERY BAD IDEA frankly. Alcohal fuels violence - there is no doubt about that.
I'm not totally anti-gun, believe it or not. I support the right of citizens to have guns but I also support LIMITS on that right (just like any other right). One of those is mixing guns and booze.
Is there any llimitation you support when it comes to gun rights?
Except that there are about a dozen states that already allow it, and they haven't had the problems you feel they would have. If you carry in a bar or restauarant, you can't drink. It is, in fact, stricter than driving and drinking.
Limitations, yes...violent felons can't buy, own or carry guns. The adjudicated, dangerously mentally ill, can't buy, own or carry guns. You can't use a gun to commit rape, robbery or murder...if you do you go to prison for 30 years. If you are a violent felon caught with an illegal gun, you go to prison for 30 years.
That covers all of the problems with guns in this society. All the other laws that anti gunners want, registration, licensing gun owners, magazine limits....are nothing more than attempts to restrict the right. The ones I have listed and the punishment, will actually work.
2aguy
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You don't understand the actual issues or the reality. Do you understand anything about this issue?
Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to actually stop violent criminals....according to bill clinton, and barak obama....
The reality of carrying guns in this country is nothing like the fear you have....here is some truth....
We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center
actual study...
Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN
2aguy
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And, of course, the question needs to be asked. How many of the guns pictured leaped out of their owner's control and started shooting people?When guns are a symbol of indadequacy:
Penny's is a violent place apparently...
Bars are a great place for firearms...
Target...another violent place...don't go shopping without dangling an assault style weapon...
Just eating out with my weaponry .... doesn't everyone?
Contrast that with those for whom gun's are just a tool:
So is the gun a statement or a useful tool? My grandfather (and husband) had/have guns. During hunting season, rifles are in use, when not in use, they're safely stored. My grandfather would have laughted at people who feel the need to carry assault type rifles and "massive stopping power" into Penny's.
Why does question need to be asked? How is it in any way relevant?
If guns are tools, they should be treated as tools. I don't go shopping in target dragging my rototillar behind me.
If guns are an extension of testorone-deficient manhood, then like the asshole walking a pitbull on a logging chain, I tend to question the fitness and sanity of the bearer.
A rototiller isn't a tool used for self defense, a pistol is. Guns are only the extension of the testosterone deficient anti gunner...since they always bring up sex and guns whenever we discuss self defense issues.....
2aguy
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When guns are a symbol of indadequacy:
Penny's is a violent place apparently...
Bars are a great place for firearms...
Target...another violent place...don't go shopping without dangling an assault style weapon...
Just eating out with my weaponry .... doesn't everyone?
Contrast that with those for whom gun's are just a tool:
So is the gun a statement or a useful tool? My grandfather (and husband) had/have guns. During hunting season, rifles are in use, when not in use, they're safely stored. My grandfather would have laughted at people who feel the need to carry assault type rifles and "massive stopping power" into Penny's.
Yeah.....the bar one? Virginia and allowed concealed carry in bars...their crime rate in bars went down....
Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result
When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.
But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.
According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.
In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.
“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”
Virginia isn't the only state that allows carrying a gun....you just can't drink and carry, just like you can't drive and carry...
So......you guys would laugh at people who carry every day....tell us, do you know exactly when you will be violently attacked by a criminal? Because a lot of women who are violently raped, a lot of people who are brutally beaten and robbed, and a lot of people murdered by criminals sure could have used your psychic abilities.....
Two things about this. First - WND is an iffy source. Second - correlation doesn't necessarily equal causality.
What IS known, is this. Alcohal lowers thresholds - inhibitions, reactions, tendancies towards violence. A drunk person isn't capable of thinking - oh gee, dudes might have a gun - I better not xyz. It just doesn't work that way - booze and rational thought processes seldom coexist in the same brain.
First.....WND is reporting from the actual statistics from the state, Second....another source...
Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.
--------------------------
At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.
2aguy
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- #167
When guns are a symbol of indadequacy:
Penny's is a violent place apparently...
Bars are a great place for firearms...
Target...another violent place...don't go shopping without dangling an assault style weapon...
Just eating out with my weaponry .... doesn't everyone?
Contrast that with those for whom gun's are just a tool:
So is the gun a statement or a useful tool? My grandfather (and husband) had/have guns. During hunting season, rifles are in use, when not in use, they're safely stored. My grandfather would have laughted at people who feel the need to carry assault type rifles and "massive stopping power" into Penny's.
Yeah.....the bar one? Virginia and allowed concealed carry in bars...their crime rate in bars went down....
Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result
When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.
But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.
According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.
In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.
“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”
Virginia isn't the only state that allows carrying a gun....you just can't drink and carry, just like you can't drive and carry...
So......you guys would laugh at people who carry every day....tell us, do you know exactly when you will be violently attacked by a criminal? Because a lot of women who are violently raped, a lot of people who are brutally beaten and robbed, and a lot of people murdered by criminals sure could have used your psychic abilities.....
Two things about this. First - WND is an iffy source. Second - correlation doesn't necessarily equal causality.
What IS known, is this. Alcohal lowers thresholds - inhibitions, reactions, tendancies towards violence. A drunk person isn't capable of thinking - oh gee, dudes might have a gun - I better not xyz. It just doesn't work that way - booze and rational thought processes seldom coexist in the same brain.
Also, you can feel any way you want about guns in bars...but again...Virginia isn't the only state that allows this, and nothing you feel about guns in bars is reflected in the reality......people who drink and carry are arrested and lose the ability......
2aguy
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- #168
When guns are a symbol of indadequacy:
Penny's is a violent place apparently...
Bars are a great place for firearms...
Target...another violent place...don't go shopping without dangling an assault style weapon...
Just eating out with my weaponry .... doesn't everyone?
Contrast that with those for whom gun's are just a tool:
So is the gun a statement or a useful tool? My grandfather (and husband) had/have guns. During hunting season, rifles are in use, when not in use, they're safely stored. My grandfather would have laughted at people who feel the need to carry assault type rifles and "massive stopping power" into Penny's.
My grandfather wouldn't have laughed. He would have told them they were idiots, and there was a time and place for guns, and in public like that was neither.
I was just thinking the same thing but I think my grandfather and father both would have laughed. And I can imagine my dad taking some of those little twerps out behind the shed for a talking to.
I grew up with guns and I have guns. But yes, there's a time and a place and these people are making us all a lot less safe.
Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
Except the reality shows you are wrong....
We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%
Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center
actual study...
Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN
2aguy
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You have one story......Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to actually stop violent criminal attack, and this is according to bill clinton's Department of Justice and barak obama's CDC.....
And since the 1990s as we went from 4.7 million people actually carrying guns to 2017 and 16.3 million people carrying guns...our gun violence rate fell 75%...and our gun murder rate fell 49%....so nothing you say is supported by the facts on the ground.
2aguy
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I don't understand this thinking......do you know what a home invasion is? Do you think they ever happen in real life? Why would you keep putting on and taking off a gun just because you enter your house, if you carry a gun during the day for self defense?
Do you think all rapes occur outside the home? Do all robberies occur outside the home? Do all murders by strangers occur outside the home?
Skull Pilot
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Understanding violence is easy
People are always have been and always will be violent animals
and people who grew up using guns do not romanticize them but rather they see a gun for what it is, a tool. I regard a gun the same as I regard a chainsaw it's a useful tool that can injure me if I'm not careful.
It's you people who are scared of guns that don't understand what a gun actually is
So, you wear a motorcycle helmet in the living room?
Seriously, if crime was so bad in my neighborhood that I felt the need to have my gun on my hip in the kitchen, I'd fucking move.
Skull Pilot
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I have solid hickory cabinets in my house
strollingbones
Diamond Member
i will be dining with one of those armed people this evening.....i call him 'son'
2aguy
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Of course, you miss the point. A helmet is used when riding a motorcycle, a gun is used for personal defense, and since crime can happen just about anywhere, carrying a gun doesn't depend on location......
These people probably didn't think they had a crime problem either....
Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia
Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when the Carrs invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They were all working adults: Befort was a local high school teacher; Heyka, a director of finance with a local financial services company; Muller, a local preschool teacher; and Sandler, a former financial analyst who had been studying to become a priest. H.G. is a teacher.
The Carrs initially scoured the house for valuables. H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage to her when the Carrs discovered the engagement ring he had hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual abuse, including rape and oral sex.[7] The brothers forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town. There they shot the five execution-style in the backs of their heads. The Carr brothers drove Befort's truck over the bodies and left them for dead.
H.G. survived her head wound at the soccer field because her plastic barrette deflected the bullet. After the killers left, she walked naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to seek first aid and shelter at a house. Before getting medical treatment, she reported the incident and descriptions of her attackers to the couple who took her in, even before the police arrived.
Do you think that this Doctor and his family lived in a high crime area?
Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders - Wikipedia
Home invasion[edit]
According to Hayes' confession, the two men had planned to rob the Petit house under cover of darkness leaving the family bound, but unharmed. Hayes attributed the outcome to a change of plan. Upon their arrival in the early hours of July 23, they found William Petit sleeping on a couch on the porch.[10] Komisarjevsky struck William on the head with a baseball bat found in the yard and then tied him up at gunpoint in the basement. The children and their mother were then bound and locked in their respective rooms.[1][11] Hayes said that he and Komisarjevsky were not satisfied with their haul, and that a bankbook was found which showed an available balance.
A gas station's video surveillance shows Hayes purchasing $10 worth of gasoline in two cans he had taken from the Petit home. After returning to the house, and unloading the gas, he took Jennifer to the bank. The prosecution later claimed that this was evidence of premeditated murder.[12] Hayes convinced Jennifer to withdraw $15,000 from her line of creditwhen the bank opened.[1][11] Bank surveillance cameras captured the transaction which shows Jennifer Hawke-Petit, on the morning of July 23, as she informed the teller of her situation. The bank manager then called 911 and reported the details to police while Jennifer was still with the teller. The manager reported to the 911 dispatcher, in real time, as Jennifer left the bank and was picked up by Hayes, describing his clothing as he drove away with her. The manager stated that Jennifer had indicated the assailants were "being nice", and she believed they only wanted money.
The Cheshire police response to the bank's report began with assessing the situation and setting up a vehicle perimeter, without revealing their presence.[13][14] The police remained outside for more than half an hour, taking these preliminary measures, while the assailants were raping and murdering the women inside the house.[13] The police made no effort to make the assailants aware of their presence.[13]
During this time, Hayes and Komisarjevsky escalated the aggravated nature of their crimes: Komisarjevsky raped the 11-year-old Michaela.[15][16] Komisarjevsky, who had photographed the sexual assault of the girl on his cell phone,[17] then provoked Hayes into raping Jennifer. While Hayes was raping her on the floor of the living room, Komisarjevsky entered the room and announced that William Petit had escaped. Hayes then strangled Jennifer, doused her lifeless body and parts of the house, including the daughters' rooms, with gasoline. While tied to their beds, both daughters had been doused with gasoline; each had her head covered with a pillowcase.[18] A fire was started, and Hayes and Komisarjevsky fled the scene. Hayley and Michaela both died of smoke inhalation.[19]
I imagine that at some point during this ordeal, both the Doctor and his wife wished they had a gun on them....
Lesbians
strollingbones
Diamond Member
and yes he wears his pistol when he is at his own home....just like the dude in ingles the other day with open carry....he didnt scare me....as i have said in nc you just watch out for the cross fire and move on....i really assume most of the people i meet have concealed carry
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