CDZ Is this image a problem for you? Does it disturb you?

[2aguy]

Here we have an image....if you see what I am alluding to...please comment.....View attachment 140169

If you have a problem with these women, please explain why.........

Seems kind of pathetic to me

The gun culture of you are not even safe in your own kitchen, that you need your gun with you at all times unless some bad hombre comes in trying to rape you

More NRA paranoia

If the women have sidearms....good for them
But once you get home, take them off and store them somewhere accessable

Why? If you can wear them comfortably...what is the issue?

Again...you believe that no one is ever raped, robbed or murdered in their home...right? It never happens?

 

[2aguy]

For those of us not born and raised in the gun culture, this image seems to be rather ham handed stab at normalizing something I find disturbing.

As I,said, I,was not raised in a household with guns. I was not raised in a home that felt constantly threatened and in desperate need of protection by force of arms. I was not raised in a household where guns were romanticized.

I find that gun culture to be a hinderence to fully understanding the scourge of guns and senseless gunplay. A couple of housewives packing heat seems to me, at least, more than a little sad.

Understanding violence is easy

People are always have been and always will be violent animals

and people who grew up using guns do not romanticize them but rather they see a gun for what it is, a tool. I regard a gun the same as I regard a chainsaw it's a useful tool that can injure me if I'm not careful.

It's you people who are scared of guns that don't understand what a gun actually is

What we understand of guns is:

The misuse of guns is reigning havoc on our society.

The guns in the hands of the people are, in some cases, guns designed for warfare, not sport.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with citizens owning guns for sport or self defense. But open carry of guns is inappropriate.

The second amendment starts by asserting a "well regulated militia". A phrase all too often overlooked by the gun lobby.

And that gun lobby wields too much power.

Guns are tools. Tools designed to propel lead at lethal speed. Other products have been rightly deemed too dangerous for public use. The Ford Pinto and lawn darts come to mind.

People wielding guns have caused mass tragedy on campuses, schools, churches, theaters, restaurants and the streets of our cities.

Gun enthusiasts seem to spend more time romanticizing guns and claiming they are, in fact, benign instruments worthy of respect, but inherently safe and useful. They seem to be willing to write off the havoc they produce as the price of their freedom.

We understand that arguments and disagreements can rapidly spin out of control with the presence of a gun.

People, like me, who were brought up in households without guns understand a lot more about guns than those who glory in guns are willing to admit. Those who glory in guns are far more willing to ignore the danger of a gun culture than is good for our society.

Those who love guns seem unwilling to compromise and accept even the most modest gun control reforms.

There is no panacea for the problem of guns and their place in our society, but dismissal of "it will never work" is a cowardly approach. Digging in your heels and turning up your noses demonstrates both callousness and ignorance where gun violence is concerned.

As to your post....the American experience with guns, the reality of it...shows you are wrong...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John R. Lott :: SSRN

 

[2aguy]

For those of us not born and raised in the gun culture, this image seems to be rather ham handed stab at normalizing something I find disturbing.

As I,said, I,was not raised in a household with guns. I was not raised in a home that felt constantly threatened and in desperate need of protection by force of arms. I was not raised in a household where guns were romanticized.

I find that gun culture to be a hinderence to fully understanding the scourge of guns and senseless gunplay. A couple of housewives packing heat seems to me, at least, more than a little sad.

Understanding violence is easy

People are always have been and always will be violent animals

and people who grew up using guns do not romanticize them but rather they see a gun for what it is, a tool. I regard a gun the same as I regard a chainsaw it's a useful tool that can injure me if I'm not careful.

It's you people who are scared of guns that don't understand what a gun actually is

What we understand of guns is:

The misuse of guns is reigning havoc on our society.

The guns in the hands of the people are, in some cases, guns designed for warfare, not sport.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with citizens owning guns for sport or self defense. But open carry of guns is inappropriate.

The second amendment starts by asserting a "well regulated militia". A phrase all too often overlooked by the gun lobby.

And that gun lobby wields too much power.

Guns are tools. Tools designed to propel lead at lethal speed. Other products have been rightly deemed too dangerous for public use. The Ford Pinto and lawn darts come to mind.

People wielding guns have caused mass tragedy on campuses, schools, churches, theaters, restaurants and the streets of our cities.

Gun enthusiasts seem to spend more time romanticizing guns and claiming they are, in fact, benign instruments worthy of respect, but inherently safe and useful. They seem to be willing to write off the havoc they produce as the price of their freedom.

We understand that arguments and disagreements can rapidly spin out of control with the presence of a gun.

People, like me, who were brought up in households without guns understand a lot more about guns than those who glory in guns are willing to admit. Those who glory in guns are far more willing to ignore the danger of a gun culture than is good for our society.

Those who love guns seem unwilling to compromise and accept even the most modest gun control reforms.

There is no panacea for the problem of guns and their place in our society, but dismissal of "it will never work" is a cowardly approach. Digging in your heels and turning up your noses demonstrates both callousness and ignorance where gun violence is concerned.

Gun enthusiasts seem to spend more time romanticizing guns and claiming they are, in fact, benign instruments worthy of respect, but inherently safe and useful. They seem to be willing to write off the havoc they produce as the price of their freedom.

No.....we study actual facts that involve guns an Americans.....we know that what you are stating is not accurate....that only a tiny number or our 320 million people misuse guns...that we have over 8 million rifles with magazines, and that only a few each year are misused....but based on the few that are misused, you want to take them away from the millions of law abiding citizens who don't misuse them.

Those rifles you hate......they were used to murder 167 people in mass public shootings, the shootings you bring up.......over a 34 year period.

Knives murder 1,500 people every single year.....and empty hands and clubs also murder more people than these rifles.

You do not have a rational argument for hating these guns. The facts do not support what you are saying about them.

You say we are unwilling to compromise, and that isn't true. You want compromise that ratchets down our ability to own these guns with each new law you create, laws that do not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting and using these guns.....

We already have every single gun law that we need to stop criminals and mass shooters....the problem is that people like you block increasing prison sentences for actual criminals...the only solution to gun crime...and you make most public areas gun free zones, which allows mass shooters to kill without armed citizens to stop them...

You are the problem, not gun owners.

You don't have the first clue about the truth, the facts or the reality of guns in this Country, as actual facts and statistics show......you see the facts, you ignore the facts. You react from emotion, not reason.

 

[2aguy]

For those of us not born and raised in the gun culture, this image seems to be rather ham handed stab at normalizing something I find disturbing.

As I,said, I,was not raised in a household with guns. I was not raised in a home that felt constantly threatened and in desperate need of protection by force of arms. I was not raised in a household where guns were romanticized.

I find that gun culture to be a hinderence to fully understanding the scourge of guns and senseless gunplay. A couple of housewives packing heat seems to me, at least, more than a little sad.

Understanding violence is easy

People are always have been and always will be violent animals

and people who grew up using guns do not romanticize them but rather they see a gun for what it is, a tool. I regard a gun the same as I regard a chainsaw it's a useful tool that can injure me if I'm not careful.

It's you people who are scared of guns that don't understand what a gun actually is

What we understand of guns is:

The misuse of guns is reigning havoc on our society.

The guns in the hands of the people are, in some cases, guns designed for warfare, not sport.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with citizens owning guns for sport or self defense. But open carry of guns is inappropriate.

The second amendment starts by asserting a "well regulated militia". A phrase all too often overlooked by the gun lobby.

And that gun lobby wields too much power.

Guns are tools. Tools designed to propel lead at lethal speed. Other products have been rightly deemed too dangerous for public use. The Ford Pinto and lawn darts come to mind.

People wielding guns have caused mass tragedy on campuses, schools, churches, theaters, restaurants and the streets of our cities.

Gun enthusiasts seem to spend more time romanticizing guns and claiming they are, in fact, benign instruments worthy of respect, but inherently safe and useful. They seem to be willing to write off the havoc they produce as the price of their freedom.

We understand that arguments and disagreements can rapidly spin out of control with the presence of a gun.

People, like me, who were brought up in households without guns understand a lot more about guns than those who glory in guns are willing to admit. Those who glory in guns are far more willing to ignore the danger of a gun culture than is good for our society.

Those who love guns seem unwilling to compromise and accept even the most modest gun control reforms.

There is no panacea for the problem of guns and their place in our society, but dismissal of "it will never work" is a cowardly approach. Digging in your heels and turning up your noses demonstrates both callousness and ignorance where gun violence is concerned.

Gee criminals are a problem

Who knew?

And we don't have any "problem" with guns. We have a crime issue that we refuse to confront.

The vast majority of gun crimes are committed by people who are legally ineligible to own a firearm but we do nothing about those people do we?

Instead of locking up violent criminals and keeping them locked up we keep letting them back out on the streets.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms stands alone from the militia. It always has.

But you can't tell me how me or any other law abiding person who passes background checks being stopped from owning a gun, any gun or any size magazine will lower the gun crime rate can you?

The problem we have with guns is the number of guns on the streets and the firing rate those of guns have.

Fifty years ago we had crime committed with guns. But those guns were revolvers. Now we have a fusillade of bullets unleashed.

My proposal is this:

All guns designed for sport are legal. Bolt action rifles, pump action shotguns and six shot revolvers remain legal and available.

All guns with a semi automatic and fully automatic firing systems are illegal to buy, trade, sell, import, manufacture and own.

Reduce the fire power and reduce the collateral damage.

Weapons designed for war should be in the hands of a well regulated militia, not on our streets.

And actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on mass shootings or crime. Rifles with magazines were used to murder 167 in mass public shootings...in 34 years.

Knives are used to murder 1,500 people every single year. empty hands kill more people than these rifles every single year. Clubs are used to kill more people than these rifles every single year.

The very weapons you cited....bolt action rifle: used currently for war. Pump action shotgun: used currently for war. 6 shot revolvers...were also used for war.....they were used by some of the greatest killers during the civil war and criminals can still rape, rob and murder with them....and mass shooters would simply carry a bag of them to kill people......

And....a rental truck killed 89 people and wounded over 400.....surpassing any mass public shooting with the rifle type you hate.

 

[rightwinger]

Here we have an image....if you see what I am alluding to...please comment.....View attachment 140169

If you have a problem with these women, please explain why.........

Seems kind of pathetic to me

The gun culture of you are not even safe in your own kitchen, that you need your gun with you at all times unless some bad hombre comes in trying to rape you

More NRA paranoia

If the women have sidearms....good for them
But once you get home, take them off and store them somewhere accessable

Why? If you can wear them comfortably...what is the issue?

Again...you believe that no one is ever raped, robbed or murdered in their home...right? It never happens?

Sorry nut job

Makes you look like an idiot

 

[BULLDOG]

Actually, it's not "values"...I was raised around guns.

None of my relatives ever felt it was appropriate to carry an AK to Target while shopping.

Who said anything about an AK ?
When I carry in public it's concealed. You could stand next to me and never would know.

Although I do agree that the vast majority of morons with pitbulls in public are doing so for the wrong reasons.

A friend of mines' wife just spend two weeks in the hospital because their sons 90lb pit attacked her. I do not like those things around me. Even though I love animals.

Lots of gun nuts cary for the same reason the idiots take pitbulls in public.

And lots of law abiding citizens carry just like other citizens take a dog with them into public, and post no more threat. Tell you what. Since you seem convinced someone is going to blow your head off at any moment, don't leave your house. You might be safer there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I'm not convinced that someone is going to blow my head off at any moment. That would make me a gun nut who thinks he needs to be armed at all times. If somebody does blow my head off, it's just as likely to be a gun nut as it is a bad guy.

 

[BULLDOG]

When guns are a symbol of indadequacy:

Penny's is a violent place apparently...

Bars are a great place for firearms...

Target...another violent place...don't go shopping without dangling an assault style weapon...

Just eating out with my weaponry .... doesn't everyone?

Contrast that with those for whom gun's are just a tool:

So is the gun a statement or a useful tool? My grandfather (and husband) had/have guns. During hunting season, rifles are in use, when not in use, they're safely stored. My grandfather would have laughted at people who feel the need to carry assault type rifles and "massive stopping power" into Penny's.

Yeah.....the bar one? Virginia and allowed concealed carry in bars...their crime rate in bars went down....

Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”

Virginia isn't the only state that allows carrying a gun....you just can't drink and carry, just like you can't drive and carry...

So......you guys would laugh at people who carry every day....tell us, do you know exactly when you will be violently attacked by a criminal? Because a lot of women who are violently raped, a lot of people who are brutally beaten and robbed, and a lot of people murdered by criminals sure could have used your psychic abilities.....

I think allowing guns in bars is a VERY BAD IDEA frankly. Alcohal fuels violence - there is no doubt about that.

I'm not totally anti-gun, believe it or not. I support the right of citizens to have guns but I also support LIMITS on that right (just like any other right). One of those is mixing guns and booze.

Is there any llimitation you support when it comes to gun rights?

Except that there are about a dozen states that already allow it, and they haven't had the problems you feel they would have. If you carry in a bar or restauarant, you can't drink. It is, in fact, stricter than driving and drinking.

Limitations, yes...violent felons can't buy, own or carry guns. The adjudicated, dangerously mentally ill, can't buy, own or carry guns. You can't use a gun to commit rape, robbery or murder...if you do you go to prison for 30 years. If you are a violent felon caught with an illegal gun, you go to prison for 30 years.

That covers all of the problems with guns in this society. All the other laws that anti gunners want, registration, licensing gun owners, magazine limits....are nothing more than attempts to restrict the right. The ones I have listed and the punishment, will actually work.

Without a background check how do you stop violent felons, mentally ill, or anybody else who shouldn't be able to buy a gun from buying a gun? You have never answered that question. You always deflect or change the subject. Why?

1st) Do you think the people doing the shooting in Chicago, Baltimore, New York, L.A., and D.C.....are getting their guns by going through background checks? You know we do have federal background checks for all purchases through gun stores.....right?

I have answered the background check question over and over. The only place you can actually stop a felon with a gun is when police catch them in a crime, or during a random traffic stop or other interaction. They are not getting their guns from gun stores or gun shows...they are getting their guns from friends and family who can already pass background checks, or from people who steal the guns......

So....since they get their guns from people who can already pass background checks, that means that if you have background checks for private sales, those people will still be able to pass background checks for those private sales.....defeating your background checks.

So again, the best way to stop gun crime...if you catch a violent felon in possession of a gun, lock them up for 30 years. If you catch someone using a gun for a crime, a real crime, rape, robbery or murder ....lock them up for 30 years. This avoids targeting law abiding gun owners, and actually takes the people who will use the guns to shoot people off the streets.

Doing background checks on half the sales only stops half the people who shouldn't be able to buy a gun.

 

[Syriusly]

Here we have an image....if you see what I am alluding to...please comment.....View attachment 140169

If you have a problem with these women, please explain why.........

Why won't she feed the dog? That is disturbing.

 

[BULLDOG]

Oh they are afraid. Cowards are always afraid.

The only ones talking about being afraid are those like you who are afraid of people carrying guns for self defense....

Of course I'n scared of gun nuts. Did you hear about the vigilante gun nut who thought he saw someone shoplifting a tool? He followed the guy into the parking lot and fired 5 rounds at the guy's car and only 3 hit. The gun nut idiot claimed he was marking the car for the cops. I could have been in that parking lot. My kid could have been in that parking lot. You bet I'm scared of crazy gun nuts.

You have one story......Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to actually stop violent criminal attack, and this is according to bill clinton's Department of Justice and barak obama's CDC.....

And since the 1990s as we went from 4.7 million people actually carrying guns to 2017 and 16.3 million people carrying guns...our gun violence rate fell 75%...and our gun murder rate fell 49%....so nothing you say is supported by the facts on the ground.

I mentioned one story this time. There are plenty of others that fit the same pattern. Many end up with innocent bystanders dying. That scenario is not uncommon by any evaluation. How many should die or be injured just because you want to make a macho fashion statement?

And there are 1,500,000 other stories of Americans who own and even carry a gun who use it to stop a violent crime and even to save lives. And as my links show, attacks can and do happen anywhere.

So a gun nut killing an innocent person is not a problem? What if someone you love was killed by a rambo wanna be?

 

[MaryL]

My problem is more with whoever composed the picture. What's next? Anti tank weapons in the living room nestled against the children playing innocently?

 

[Carter Malone]

My problem is more with whoever composed the picture. What's next? Anti tank wepons in the living room nestled against the children playing innocently?

Next to the Christmas tree?

WWJS?
(Who Would Jesus Shoot?)


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Carter Malone]

The only ones talking about being afraid are those like you who are afraid of people carrying guns for self defense....

Of course I'n scared of gun nuts. Did you hear about the vigilante gun nut who thought he saw someone shoplifting a tool? He followed the guy into the parking lot and fired 5 rounds at the guy's car and only 3 hit. The gun nut idiot claimed he was marking the car for the cops. I could have been in that parking lot. My kid could have been in that parking lot. You bet I'm scared of crazy gun nuts.

You have one story......Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to actually stop violent criminal attack, and this is according to bill clinton's Department of Justice and barak obama's CDC.....

And since the 1990s as we went from 4.7 million people actually carrying guns to 2017 and 16.3 million people carrying guns...our gun violence rate fell 75%...and our gun murder rate fell 49%....so nothing you say is supported by the facts on the ground.

I mentioned one story this time. There are plenty of others that fit the same pattern. Many end up with innocent bystanders dying. That scenario is not uncommon by any evaluation. How many should die or be injured just because you want to make a macho fashion statement?

And there are 1,500,000 other stories of Americans who own and even carry a gun who use it to stop a violent crime and even to save lives. And as my links show, attacks can and do happen anywhere.

So a gun nut killing an innocent person is not a problem? What if someone you love was killed by a rambo wanna be?

Believe it or not, I've read gun nuts saying that since other things cause more deaths, the gun deaths aren't worth addressing. It's the ridiculous argument that since guns kill, we should ban cars and swimming pools.

I believe the lobby (NRS) to sell more and more guns has completely sold out human lives to the bottom line of the gun makers ' p&l.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[2aguy]

Here we have an image....if you see what I am alluding to...please comment.....View attachment 140169

If you have a problem with these women, please explain why.........

Seems kind of pathetic to me

The gun culture of you are not even safe in your own kitchen, that you need your gun with you at all times unless some bad hombre comes in trying to rape you

More NRA paranoia

If the women have sidearms....good for them
But once you get home, take them off and store them somewhere accessable

Why? If you can wear them comfortably...what is the issue?

Again...you believe that no one is ever raped, robbed or murdered in their home...right? It never happens?

Sorry nut job

Makes you look like an idiot

This is the CDZ.......try again...

 

[MaryL]

I am an agnostic. I love christian traditions. None of them encourage people to cut off heads or crash planes into buildings in Manhattan. Islam? Isn't it just a bunch of superstitious hoodoo? Why would a card carrying liberal atheist liberal CARE about Muslims that put gays and or fellow libels to death, let alone apostates to death. Why is liberalism concerned with protecting THAT? Unless they are just being neurotic mixed up contrarians out of touch with reality?

 

[2aguy]

Yeah.....the bar one? Virginia and allowed concealed carry in bars...their crime rate in bars went down....

Allowing guns into bars has ‘surprising’ result



When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”

Virginia isn't the only state that allows carrying a gun....you just can't drink and carry, just like you can't drive and carry...

So......you guys would laugh at people who carry every day....tell us, do you know exactly when you will be violently attacked by a criminal? Because a lot of women who are violently raped, a lot of people who are brutally beaten and robbed, and a lot of people murdered by criminals sure could have used your psychic abilities.....

I think allowing guns in bars is a VERY BAD IDEA frankly. Alcohal fuels violence - there is no doubt about that.

I'm not totally anti-gun, believe it or not. I support the right of citizens to have guns but I also support LIMITS on that right (just like any other right). One of those is mixing guns and booze.

Is there any llimitation you support when it comes to gun rights?

Except that there are about a dozen states that already allow it, and they haven't had the problems you feel they would have. If you carry in a bar or restauarant, you can't drink. It is, in fact, stricter than driving and drinking.

Limitations, yes...violent felons can't buy, own or carry guns. The adjudicated, dangerously mentally ill, can't buy, own or carry guns. You can't use a gun to commit rape, robbery or murder...if you do you go to prison for 30 years. If you are a violent felon caught with an illegal gun, you go to prison for 30 years.

That covers all of the problems with guns in this society. All the other laws that anti gunners want, registration, licensing gun owners, magazine limits....are nothing more than attempts to restrict the right. The ones I have listed and the punishment, will actually work.

Without a background check how do you stop violent felons, mentally ill, or anybody else who shouldn't be able to buy a gun from buying a gun? You have never answered that question. You always deflect or change the subject. Why?

1st) Do you think the people doing the shooting in Chicago, Baltimore, New York, L.A., and D.C.....are getting their guns by going through background checks? You know we do have federal background checks for all purchases through gun stores.....right?

I have answered the background check question over and over. The only place you can actually stop a felon with a gun is when police catch them in a crime, or during a random traffic stop or other interaction. They are not getting their guns from gun stores or gun shows...they are getting their guns from friends and family who can already pass background checks, or from people who steal the guns......

So....since they get their guns from people who can already pass background checks, that means that if you have background checks for private sales, those people will still be able to pass background checks for those private sales.....defeating your background checks.

So again, the best way to stop gun crime...if you catch a violent felon in possession of a gun, lock them up for 30 years. If you catch someone using a gun for a crime, a real crime, rape, robbery or murder ....lock them up for 30 years. This avoids targeting law abiding gun owners, and actually takes the people who will use the guns to shoot people off the streets.

Doing background checks on half the sales only stops half the people who shouldn't be able to buy a gun.

Do you even understand that you are wrong? Criminals do not get their guns by going through a background check. They get their guns from other people who either steal the guns, or from people who can pass a background check. Your whole point has no bearing on the reality of how criminals get their guns.

And again, even if you forced background checks on private sales, criminals still would not get go through that background check, they would get their guns by stealing them, buying them from others who stole them, or.......by buying them from people who passed the background check for the private sale.....

Background checks are Security Theater for anti gunners. The real solution...is locking up violent felons caught with a gun for 30 years.....locking up actual criminals who use guns for rapes, robberies and murders for 30 years...

That deals with actual criminals and has the added virtue of not bothering law abiding gun owners...

But that is the point, right? You don't care about the criminals...you just want to punish and inconvenience normal people who want a gun for self defense...you can read it in all of your posts...you have contempt for those people, and you want to punish them for how they make you feel....

 

[2aguy]

The only ones talking about being afraid are those like you who are afraid of people carrying guns for self defense....

Of course I'n scared of gun nuts. Did you hear about the vigilante gun nut who thought he saw someone shoplifting a tool? He followed the guy into the parking lot and fired 5 rounds at the guy's car and only 3 hit. The gun nut idiot claimed he was marking the car for the cops. I could have been in that parking lot. My kid could have been in that parking lot. You bet I'm scared of crazy gun nuts.

You have one story......Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to actually stop violent criminal attack, and this is according to bill clinton's Department of Justice and barak obama's CDC.....

And since the 1990s as we went from 4.7 million people actually carrying guns to 2017 and 16.3 million people carrying guns...our gun violence rate fell 75%...and our gun murder rate fell 49%....so nothing you say is supported by the facts on the ground.

I mentioned one story this time. There are plenty of others that fit the same pattern. Many end up with innocent bystanders dying. That scenario is not uncommon by any evaluation. How many should die or be injured just because you want to make a macho fashion statement?

And there are 1,500,000 other stories of Americans who own and even carry a gun who use it to stop a violent crime and even to save lives. And as my links show, attacks can and do happen anywhere.

So a gun nut killing an innocent person is not a problem? What if someone you love was killed by a rambo wanna be?

There are 320 million people in this country.....

600 million guns in private hands.

over 16.3 million people actually carrying guns for self defense....

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attacks and to save lives....

Accidental gun deaths in 2015...... 489.

Accidental car deaths in 2015......36,616.

Knives are used to murder 1,500 people every single year.....

You have no point.

 

[2aguy]

Of course I'n scared of gun nuts. Did you hear about the vigilante gun nut who thought he saw someone shoplifting a tool? He followed the guy into the parking lot and fired 5 rounds at the guy's car and only 3 hit. The gun nut idiot claimed he was marking the car for the cops. I could have been in that parking lot. My kid could have been in that parking lot. You bet I'm scared of crazy gun nuts.

You have one story......Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to actually stop violent criminal attack, and this is according to bill clinton's Department of Justice and barak obama's CDC.....

And since the 1990s as we went from 4.7 million people actually carrying guns to 2017 and 16.3 million people carrying guns...our gun violence rate fell 75%...and our gun murder rate fell 49%....so nothing you say is supported by the facts on the ground.

I mentioned one story this time. There are plenty of others that fit the same pattern. Many end up with innocent bystanders dying. That scenario is not uncommon by any evaluation. How many should die or be injured just because you want to make a macho fashion statement?

And there are 1,500,000 other stories of Americans who own and even carry a gun who use it to stop a violent crime and even to save lives. And as my links show, attacks can and do happen anywhere.

So a gun nut killing an innocent person is not a problem? What if someone you love was killed by a rambo wanna be?

Believe it or not, I've read gun nuts saying that since other things cause more deaths, the gun deaths aren't worth addressing. It's the ridiculous argument that since guns kill, we should ban cars and swimming pools.

I believe the lobby (NRS) to sell more and more guns has completely sold out human lives to the bottom line of the gun makers ' p&l.


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No...you miss the point.....guns accidentally killed 489 people in 2015.

Cars accidentally killed 36,616 people in 2015.

You guys call for guns to be banned, but the far more deadly automobile doesn't get any of your love....

And on top of that, Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rapes...to stop robberies, and to stop murders .....far more times a year than criminals, who cannot legally buy, own or carry guns use them to take lives.....

 

[dblack]

It seems weird to me that anyone could NOT be disturbed by this photo. And it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, which I strongly support. It's just disturbing that anyone would feel so insecure in their home that they felt the need to carry a weapon on their person. Something is bad wrong there.

 

[2aguy]

It seems weird to me that anyone could NOT be disturbed by this photo. And it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, which I strongly support. It's just disturbing that anyone would feel so insecure in their home that they felt the need to carry a weapon on their person. Something is bad wrong there.

Really? Why would they feel insecure in their home simply because they are wearing a gun? It is no different from wearing a cell phone....do you take off your cell phone at home simply because you have a land line in your home? Besides that....some of the holsters you wear require undoing your belt to get them off.....and if you are coming and going, that can be a hassle...

Try to get some real experience and information...it will help with your future posts...

 

[Coyote]

There are gun nuts....and anti-gun nuts. Somewhere in between is the place of reason.

Guns are tools. They are tools that have potentially lethal consequences. They should be treated with the respect and care that they deserve.

A "gun culture" doesn't exactly promote that does it?

My grandfather was in the military, he had guns, he had hunting rifles. He did not go to downtown Saltlake City "packing"...EVER.

My culture treat's guns as a useful tool to be treated with respect, secured when not in use and not used as a statement.

That's probably why I have issues with the photo in the OP. Not that they have guns, but that they feel the need to be armed in the kitchen, talking with the dog, chilling with coffee...as if that is totally ordinary. I understand WHY they want to portray the image...but it's not realistic.

A chain saw is good self defense but I'm not going to haul it around.