Is the church more important than the bible?

[Avatar4321]

Is upholding the popularity and influence of the church more important than the teachings of the bible? what if the two come into conflict?

Sorry, but without the Bible all one has is a social club.

Even with the Bible, half the time all one has is a social club.

 

[Mr. H.]

When I say church I mean Organised religion. I know many people who follow the bible but dont belive in organised religion.

the word of GOD is infallible !! if the Church or religion does not recognize this fact LEAVE THE CHURCH !!

The Word of God is Jesus Christ. I dont think there are many Churches that dont recognize His infalliability. The problem is when they equate the Bible with God/Christ instead of a tool to bring them to Christ.

Infalliability brought to you by the mouths of mortals. Can't be done.

*Sorry bout that.*

Christ had his day and his say. Today is another day.

Ancient words lost on the morals of today.

The Word of God brought Jesus through his Mother. She is the venerate.

 

[Avatar4321]

the word of GOD is infallible !! if the Church or religion does not recognize this fact LEAVE THE CHURCH !!

The Word of God is Jesus Christ. I dont think there are many Churches that dont recognize His infalliability. The problem is when they equate the Bible with God/Christ instead of a tool to bring them to Christ.

Infalliability brought to you by the mouths of mortals. Can't be done.

*Sorry bout that.*

Christ had his day and his say. Today is another day.

Ancient words lost on the morals of today.

The Word of God brought Jesus through his Mother. She is the venerate.

Christ still lives. He still leads His Church and speaks the Words the Father commands.

 

[Mr. H.]

The Word of God is Jesus Christ. I dont think there are many Churches that dont recognize His infalliability. The problem is when they equate the Bible with God/Christ instead of a tool to bring them to Christ.

Infalliability brought to you by the mouths of mortals. Can't be done.

*Sorry bout that.*

Christ had his day and his say. Today is another day.

Ancient words lost on the morals of today.

The Word of God brought Jesus through his Mother. She is the venerate.

Christ still lives. He still leads His Church and speaks the Words the Father commands.

Christ has never spoken to me. His mother has. Is that good enough?

 

[hortysir]

Infalliability brought to you by the mouths of mortals. Can't be done.

*Sorry bout that.*

Christ had his day and his say. Today is another day.

Ancient words lost on the morals of today.

The Word of God brought Jesus through his Mother. She is the venerate.

Christ still lives. He still leads His Church and speaks the Words the Father commands.

Christ has never spoken to me. His mother has. Is that good enough?

How about the Spirit?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Infalliability brought to you by the mouths of mortals. Can't be done.

*Sorry bout that.*

Christ had his day and his say. Today is another day.

Ancient words lost on the morals of today.

The Word of God brought Jesus through his Mother. She is the venerate.

Christ still lives. He still leads His Church and speaks the Words the Father commands.

Christ has never spoken to me. His mother has. Is that good enough?

No, actually it isn't. You are praying to a creation, rather than to the Creator. Christ never told us to pray to anyone but the Father.
Not even to Christ, but to our Father, through Christ.

 

[Care4all]

Christ still lives. He still leads His Church and speaks the Words the Father commands.

Christ has never spoken to me. His mother has. Is that good enough?

No, actually it isn't. You are praying to a creation, rather than to the Creator. Christ never told us to pray to anyone but the Father.
Not even to Christ, but to the father through Christ.

Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you or pray for some member of your church that was in a horrible car accident or that suffered a heart attack etc.? Or has your Church ever asked the congregation to pray for 'some thing'', like to pray for the ending of abortion?

FYI.... in case you didn't know....
Asking the mother of Jesus, to ''pray for you'' is NOT praying TO Mary, but asking Mary to join with you and others in praying for you, to God....as the Pastor or a friend of yours would ask you or the congregation to do, for someone in great need.

 

[hortysir]

Christ has never spoken to me. His mother has. Is that good enough?

No, actually it isn't. You are praying to a creation, rather than to the Creator. Christ never told us to pray to anyone but the Father.
Not even to Christ, but to the father through Christ.

Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you or pray for some member of your church that was in a horrible car accident or that suffered a heart attack etc.? Or has your Church ever asked the congregation to pray for 'some thing'', like to pray for the ending of abortion?

FYI.... in case you didn't know....
Asking the mother of Jesus, to ''pray for you'' is NOT praying TO Mary, but asking Mary to join with you and others in praying for you, to God/Jesus....as the Pastor or a friend of yours would ask you or the congregation to do, for someone in great need.

I can ask humans to pray for, or help me pray, yes......
I don't go to them THROUGH prayer, though, my friend.
I ask them face-to-face

 

[Care4all]

No, actually it isn't. You are praying to a creation, rather than to the Creator. Christ never told us to pray to anyone but the Father.
Not even to Christ, but to the father through Christ.

Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you or pray for some member of your church that was in a horrible car accident or that suffered a heart attack etc.? Or has your Church ever asked the congregation to pray for 'some thing'', like to pray for the ending of abortion?

FYI.... in case you didn't know....
Asking the mother of Jesus, to ''pray for you'' is NOT praying TO Mary, but asking Mary to join with you and others in praying for you, to God/Jesus....as the Pastor or a friend of yours would ask you or the congregation to do, for someone in great need.

I can ask humans to pray for, or help me pray, yes......
I don't go to them THROUGH prayer, though, my friend.
I ask them face-to-face

then you don't believe in an afterlife Horty? Is it that you don't believe that we live on after death?

Because to me, there is no difference in asking a person face to face to pray for me or pray for a friend in need, than if you asked someone who has 'passed onward'' to the next life, to pray for me or a friend in need. Both are alive! Both are living, only in different dimensions!

 

[The Irish Ram]

Care, Yes, but in every one of those cases, you are praying for the person to the Father.
Do you ask John to pray with you, or Abraham, or Adam, or King David? They are not intercessors, nor is Mary. Jesus never ever told us to pray to His mother or any of the saints for a reason. Jesus retains sole possession of that position ( intercessor), being the only to have paid the price to intercede for us. Why would Mary be needed if God is the only one qualified to meet your request? You can ask God's Spirit to pray with you though. He(Spirit form) already knowing what we need vs what we think we need.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, but in every one of those cases, you are praying for the person to the Father.
Do you ask John to pray with you, or Abraham, or Adam, or King David? They are not intercessors, nor is Mary. Jesus never ever told us to pray to His mother or any of the saints for a reason.
Jesus retains sole possession of that position ( intercessor), being the only to have paid the price to intercede for us. Why would Mary be needed if Christ is the only one qualified to meet your request?

I don't even ask Mary to pray to God for me or with me for something, but I see no problem what so ever, if people ask her to pray for whatever situation it is, that they feel they need extra prayer for....

 

[The Irish Ram]

The only problem with it is that it is demoting Christ's job, to a level that any other pious, now dead/once alive, human could fill. We don't need celestial back-up. God hears us the first time. And when 2 here on earth are praying together, Christ is right there with us. He is the only thing we need to include in our prayers.
A human interceding on our behalf puts a feather in their cap, as God sees their love for their brother, but once your prayer is airborne, only God's ear is important. And only He will make a decision concerning your plight. You don't need a cheering squad to get His attention.

Praise God. It lets Him know that you know who you are praying to.
Repent. Or your prayer will be a let prayer, not reaching God's ears. He can't hear a person drenched in sin.
Ask anything for anybody. Human intercession on behalf of another.
Yourself. Pray for your needs. Your conversation time with God.

 

[hortysir]

Have you ever asked anyone to pray for you or pray for some member of your church that was in a horrible car accident or that suffered a heart attack etc.? Or has your Church ever asked the congregation to pray for 'some thing'', like to pray for the ending of abortion?

FYI.... in case you didn't know....
Asking the mother of Jesus, to ''pray for you'' is NOT praying TO Mary, but asking Mary to join with you and others in praying for you, to God/Jesus....as the Pastor or a friend of yours would ask you or the congregation to do, for someone in great need.

I can ask humans to pray for, or help me pray, yes......
I don't go to them THROUGH prayer, though, my friend.
I ask them face-to-face

then you don't believe in an afterlife Horty? Is it that you don't believe that we live on after death?

Because to me, there is no difference in asking a person face to face to pray for me or pray for a friend in need, than if you asked someone who has 'passed onward'' to the next life, to pray for me or a friend in need. Both are alive! Both are living, only in different dimensions!

I don't believe in an instant 'after-life heaven', no.
There is only one Judgement day.
Father, Son, HS and their Angels, along with the few that have been 'raptured' are the onlyt ones in Heaven right now.
(Now, there are some that claim Mary was raptured)
Everybody else is d-e-a-d.

 

[Avatar4321]

I can ask humans to pray for, or help me pray, yes......
I don't go to them THROUGH prayer, though, my friend.
I ask them face-to-face

then you don't believe in an afterlife Horty? Is it that you don't believe that we live on after death?

Because to me, there is no difference in asking a person face to face to pray for me or pray for a friend in need, than if you asked someone who has 'passed onward'' to the next life, to pray for me or a friend in need. Both are alive! Both are living, only in different dimensions!

I don't believe in an instant 'after-life heaven', no.
There is only one Judgement day.
Father, Son, HS and their Angels, along with the few that have been 'raptured' are the onlyt ones in Heaven right now.
(Now, there are some that claim Mary was raptured)
Everybody else is d-e-a-d.

Im not sure there is only one Judgment day. After all, we all die at different times. Why wouldn't we all rise and be judged at different times? Of course, the Lord hasnt revealed to me specifics on the matter so I could be wrong.

 

[BreezeWood]

Judgement day will be when the last good person or evil person on Earth dies - leaving all remaining to be judged (told) as to their actual persuasion - by God.

 

[whitehall]

Is upholding the popularity and influence of the church more important than the teachings of the bible? what if the two come into conflict?

The Bible and the Church are one. Catholics are less influenced by the Bible than Protestants but there hasn't been a case in 2000 years where the Bible and the Christian Church have been in conflict.

 

[BreezeWood]

the Temple is immortal, with or without scripture.

 

[Care4all]

The only problem with it is that it is demoting Christ's job, to a level that any other pious, now dead/once alive, human could fill. We don't need celestial back-up. God hears us the first time. And when 2 here on earth are praying together, Christ is right there with us. He is the only thing we need to include in our prayers.
A human interceding on our behalf puts a feather in their cap, as God sees their love for their brother, but once your prayer is airborne, only God's ear is important. And only He will make a decision concerning your plight. You don't need a cheering squad to get His attention.

Praise God. It lets Him know that you know who you are praying to.
Repent. Or your prayer will be a let prayer, not reaching God's ears. He can't hear a person drenched in sin.
Ask anything for anybody. Human intercession on behalf of another.
Yourself. Pray for your needs. Your conversation time with God.

But you've contradicted yourself between your first paragraph, and with what you say in your "A" in PRAY.....''Ask anything for anybody. Human intercession on behalf of another''.... Mary is a human, Moses is a human etc....? So exactly what is your complaint if people ask these humans to pray for you if you are in need or to pray to God for another person in need?? I don't know of a Church that doesn't ask its parishioners/congregation to pray for another member in need....there is no difference in asking the saints that have passed onward, to join you in prayer, is there?

 

[Care4all]

I can ask humans to pray for, or help me pray, yes......
I don't go to them THROUGH prayer, though, my friend.
I ask them face-to-face

then you don't believe in an afterlife Horty? Is it that you don't believe that we live on after death?

Because to me, there is no difference in asking a person face to face to pray for me or pray for a friend in need, than if you asked someone who has 'passed onward'' to the next life, to pray for me or a friend in need. Both are alive! Both are living, only in different dimensions!

I don't believe in an instant 'after-life heaven', no.
There is only one Judgement day.
Father, Son, HS and their Angels, along with the few that have been 'raptured' are the onlyt ones in Heaven right now.
(Now, there are some that claim Mary was raptured)
Everybody else is d-e-a-d.

So if there is no instant afterlife, are you dead in spirit or soul as well....just nothing? Nil? Nada? Where are you when you are awaiting for the Final Judgement of nations by Christ? If memory serves, in revelation, those awaiting the final judgement, ask Christ, "How long Lord, how much longer do we have to wait?" and He tells them to get their white robes on... in other words, the time was near... Well, if these are the people that you say are the 'everybody else is dead' people, then how are they talking to Jesus, if they are dead dead?

Now I don't know if most people living in Christ go to Heaven immediately upon death, though I believe that some may....and it is not called rapture, it is called assumption or maybe ascension...after all, Christ told the thief on the cross that "today, he would see him in paradise''. Is this Paradise that Jesus spoke of Heaven? I dunno? Is it a "level" of Heaven as in one of the 7 levels of heaven, I dunno? I don't know, I don't know....?? hahahaha.... hopefully, some day I will know!!

 

[hortysir]

then you don't believe in an afterlife Horty? Is it that you don't believe that we live on after death?

Because to me, there is no difference in asking a person face to face to pray for me or pray for a friend in need, than if you asked someone who has 'passed onward'' to the next life, to pray for me or a friend in need. Both are alive! Both are living, only in different dimensions!

I don't believe in an instant 'after-life heaven', no.
There is only one Judgement day.
Father, Son, HS and their Angels, along with the few that have been 'raptured' are the onlyt ones in Heaven right now.
(Now, there are some that claim Mary was raptured)
Everybody else is d-e-a-d.

So if there is no instant afterlife, are you dead in spirit or soul as well....just nothing? Nil? Nada? Where are you when you are awaiting for the Final Judgement of nations by Christ? If memory serves, in revelation, those awaiting the final judgement, ask Christ, "How long Lord, how much longer do we have to wait?" and He tells them to get their white robes on... in other words, the time was near... Well, if these are the people that you say are the 'everybody else is dead' people, then how are they talking to Jesus, if they are dead dead?

Now I don't know if most people living in Christ go to Heaven immediately upon death, though I believe that some may....and it is not called rapture, it is called assumption or maybe ascension...after all, Christ told the thief on the cross that "today, he would see him in paradise''. Is this Paradise that Jesus spoke of Heaven? I dunno? Is it a "level" of Heaven as in one of the 7 levels of heaven, I dunno? I don't know, I don't know....?? hahahaha.... hopefully, some day I will know!!

Your "breath of life" returns to the One that gave it to you.
You're merely asleep.
But when you awake?
(it'll feel like only a short second has passed)