Is it time to legalize pot and reduce the death rate of tobacco and alcohol?

[Uncensored2008]

LOL, good friend of mine and fishing buddy HAS to have those Mtn Dews each and every morn. He drinks the diet ones and at night mixes red Bull with it.
Never been a Dew fan, coffee does the trick for me and maybe an energy smoothie.

Yeah, black with no sugar for me.

Times change.

 

[Gadawg73]

Didn't Kareem Abdul Jabbar smoke out as well for his health problems?

Yes sir he did as well as Bill Walton. Walton was known to smell like the twisty when he entered the locker room before the games.
Walton played in pain his whold career. Funny how in that Airplane movie with Kareem as the pilot and the kid coming up telling him "My Dad says you were lazy on defense" part. Kareem stated he was in pain daily and had a special bong made so the heat factor was not there. Word was some old girlfriend got one of his bongs and sold the damn thing at a charity event in LA for 10K.

More recently I know Chris Webber and Rasheed Wallace were avid weed smokers, hell Chris Webber was caught at an airport in Puerto Rico with a bag of smoke. Allen Iverson was also notorious for smoking weed during his career.

And what about that notorious QB "Ron Mexico" and his water bottle container with a mysterious compartment that was seized at Miami airport after he returned on an AirTran flight? Of course that was before his canine training adventures and his visit to the pen.

 

[Gadawg73]

Detroit Lions DT Nick Fairley was arrested this morning in Alabama for a large bag of twisty in his car.
I am telling you, not saying it is right, but weed is very prevalent in college and pro football.
I would say 40% of all the players and this comes from recent college and pro players I know very well.

 

[whitehall]

The dirty little secret is that you have to die sooner or later. The government grant people find out the dead 75 year old guy was a smoker and the stats indicate smoking as the cause of death. When a pot head crashes his car into the tree it goes down as a traffic related incident. Pot heads can get a couple of seeds and raise a tree in their back yard or basement and puff what's left of their brains out but that ain't what the pot movement is about. They want to make a buck off it by selling it to your kids.

 

[sparky]

well sell me some then, i haven't had a puff in years

maybe i'd be less of an A**hole if i did

did anyone ever think about that, times 300 milion A**holes?

~S~

 

[MikeK]

[...]

It's not like legalization will put a dent in illegal drugs either. The government would be no more than a competitor looking for market share. Another cartel. It worked for the dispensaries in California, there was a cartel, syndicate, government partnership. The mexicans supplied the drugs, (over the counter pot, under the counter everything else including weapons) the Armenian crime syndicate owned and operated the dispensaries and the LAPD provided protection from random attacks. There were a lot of attacks too. A lot of robberies.

Look at it from the dispensary point of view. Would you take a check from a pothead? If you are a pothead, would you give your credit card to a bunch of potheads? The dispensaries dealt in cash only. Lots of cash, making them an ideal target for random crime.

[...]

The topic is marijuana legalization, not government supervised distribution of a prescribed medication, so the reference to dispensaries is not relevant. Marijuana is a naturally occurring entity. A weed. Legalizing it means elimination of government controls over it.

Marijuana was decriminalized throughout the 1970s in New York City, meaning the laws remained on the books but enforcement was administratively suspended except for public use or sale, possession and use by or distribution to minors, and possession of quantities in excess of four ounces. There were head shops all over and E.J. Korvette sold rolling papers, pipes, bongs and screens in its tobacco shops.

My across-the-street neighbor and friend in Brooklyn had a beautiful fenced garden in back of his brownstone where he grew a plot of marijuana plants in addition to his beloved flowers and vegetables. In exchange for an occasional "special" carrot cake he often handed us big cuttings with fat buds which, when dried, yielded pounds of high-quality sinsemilla -- worth thousands of dollars by today's market standard.

Sources were plentiful and street prices back then reflected the ready availability of every grade of marijuana. Ordinary "ditch weed" could be had for $20 an ounce (more or less) and an ounce of the finest hydroponically grown Indica could be had for $75. ($500, today.)

There were absolutely no negative consequences as the result of that relative freedom. One of the positive effects was the City's law-enforcement resources were unburdened. But it all came to a rude and abrupt end when Ronald and Nancy Reagan saw fit to inflict the madness of a "drug war" on the Nation.

I fail to see how cartels could impose themselves over that kind of unconstrained freedom of access to and availability of something which may be grown almost anywhere. If it were legal the majority of the cartels' pot customers would either be growing their own or buying clean, safe, certified potencies from licensed dealers at competitive prices.

 

[Widdekind]

Drug users do everyone a favor when they, like River Phoenix, drop dead on the street.

human life is cheap? What if the drugs were cheap instead, "low cost low crime"?

 

[GreatestIam]

Drug users do everyone a favor when they, like River Phoenix, drop dead on the street.

human life is cheap? What if the drugs were cheap instead, "low cost low crime"?

I would say between 2 and 3 thousand $ in every tax payers pocket.

What are we insane?

Regards
DL

 

[Katzndogz]

Drug users do everyone a favor when they, like River Phoenix, drop dead on the street.

human life is cheap? What if the drugs were cheap instead, "low cost low crime"?

That's why drugs should be very low cost, or preferably free. The lives of drug users aren't cheap, they are worthless. Whether it would appreciably lower the crime rate is debatable. The crimes not committed to get drugs would have to be offset by the crimes committed while users are on drugs and the crimes committed because there is no other source of funds to buy desirables.

In the beginning, it would probably mean a serious increase in criminal acticity, as users die off that would go down.

As far as saving money generally, it would not help the families of users who are deluded into providing medical care for them or rehabilitation services. As HG has said, his father spent thousands of dollars on a worthless brother. That was money ill spent. Now if people stopped wasting their money like that, there might be a savings. As long as there are tax supported clinics and centers, the tax payers won't see any relief either. Whatever is spent on keeping users off the streets through the court system will be spent on their care and coddling. Again, though, as users die, these expenses will go down so it's more or less and investment in the future.

 

[High_Gravity]

Drug users do everyone a favor when they, like River Phoenix, drop dead on the street.

human life is cheap? What if the drugs were cheap instead, "low cost low crime"?

That's why drugs should be very low cost, or preferably free. The lives of drug users aren't cheap, they are worthless. Whether it would appreciably lower the crime rate is debatable. The crimes not committed to get drugs would have to be offset by the crimes committed while users are on drugs and the crimes committed because there is no other source of funds to buy desirables.

In the beginning, it would probably mean a serious increase in criminal acticity, as users die off that would go down.

As far as saving money generally, it would not help the families of users who are deluded into providing medical care for them or rehabilitation services. As HG has said, his father spent thousands of dollars on a worthless brother. That was money ill spent. Now if people stopped wasting their money like that, there might be a savings. As long as there are tax supported clinics and centers, the tax payers won't see any relief either. Whatever is spent on keeping users off the streets through the court system will be spent on their care and coddling. Again, though, as users die, these expenses will go down so it's more or less and investment in the future.

Shoot, my dad has spent so much money on that worthless scumbag in the last 4 years to buy a new house, or put someone through a top university.

 

[Katzndogz]

human life is cheap? What if the drugs were cheap instead, "low cost low crime"?

That's why drugs should be very low cost, or preferably free. The lives of drug users aren't cheap, they are worthless. Whether it would appreciably lower the crime rate is debatable. The crimes not committed to get drugs would have to be offset by the crimes committed while users are on drugs and the crimes committed because there is no other source of funds to buy desirables.

In the beginning, it would probably mean a serious increase in criminal acticity, as users die off that would go down.

As far as saving money generally, it would not help the families of users who are deluded into providing medical care for them or rehabilitation services. As HG has said, his father spent thousands of dollars on a worthless brother. That was money ill spent. Now if people stopped wasting their money like that, there might be a savings. As long as there are tax supported clinics and centers, the tax payers won't see any relief either. Whatever is spent on keeping users off the streets through the court system will be spent on their care and coddling. Again, though, as users die, these expenses will go down so it's more or less and investment in the future.

Shoot, my dad has spent so much money on that worthless scumbag in the last 4 years to buy a new house, or put someone through a top university.

That's why I don't see any serious financial savings coming from the legalization of drugs. It's just putting money in one pocket rather than another. China really has the best way of dealing with drug users. It is treated as a medical condition with a reasonable period of time allowed for a cure. If the user continues to use, he or she goes off to a labor camp for three years, repeat as necessary. Since there is no "crime" there is no expense of trial. It is an admirable solution.

 

[High_Gravity]

That's why drugs should be very low cost, or preferably free. The lives of drug users aren't cheap, they are worthless. Whether it would appreciably lower the crime rate is debatable. The crimes not committed to get drugs would have to be offset by the crimes committed while users are on drugs and the crimes committed because there is no other source of funds to buy desirables.

In the beginning, it would probably mean a serious increase in criminal acticity, as users die off that would go down.

As far as saving money generally, it would not help the families of users who are deluded into providing medical care for them or rehabilitation services. As HG has said, his father spent thousands of dollars on a worthless brother. That was money ill spent. Now if people stopped wasting their money like that, there might be a savings. As long as there are tax supported clinics and centers, the tax payers won't see any relief either. Whatever is spent on keeping users off the streets through the court system will be spent on their care and coddling. Again, though, as users die, these expenses will go down so it's more or less and investment in the future.

Shoot, my dad has spent so much money on that worthless scumbag in the last 4 years to buy a new house, or put someone through a top university.

That's why I don't see any serious financial savings coming from the legalization of drugs. It's just putting money in one pocket rather than another. China really has the best way of dealing with drug users. It is treated as a medical condition with a reasonable period of time allowed for a cure. If the user continues to use, he or she goes off to a labor camp for three years, repeat as necessary. Since there is no "crime" there is no expense of trial. It is an admirable solution.

That would never work here because we are too PC now to build labor camps, even though thats what those junkies deserve.

 

[Katzndogz]

Expand stand your ground laws.

There is no easy answer. The number of users has to be reduced. However it's done. We have a population with a significant percentage of drug users. For what ever reason these people can't function and need to get high to get through the day. They have been accommodated as far as accommodation can go. There has been no real war on drugs, perhaps ever. Something you know very well. At this point, legalization and very cheap or free product, in enough quantity to end their miserable existences might at least reduce their number and make taking drugs unattractive.

 

[High_Gravity]

Expand stand your ground laws.

There is no easy answer. The number of users has to be reduced. However it's done. We have a population with a significant percentage of drug users. For what ever reason these people can't function and need to get high to get through the day. They have been accommodated as far as accommodation can go. There has been no real war on drugs, perhaps ever. Something you know very well. At this point, legalization and very cheap or free product, in enough quantity to end their miserable existences might at least reduce their number and make taking drugs unattractive.

Thats an interesting strategy there but I don't see our government ever going for that, at least in our lifetimes.

 

[Katzndogz]

Expand stand your ground laws.

There is no easy answer. The number of users has to be reduced. However it's done. We have a population with a significant percentage of drug users. For what ever reason these people can't function and need to get high to get through the day. They have been accommodated as far as accommodation can go. There has been no real war on drugs, perhaps ever. Something you know very well. At this point, legalization and very cheap or free product, in enough quantity to end their miserable existences might at least reduce their number and make taking drugs unattractive.

Thats an interesting strategy there but I don't see our government ever going for that, at least in our lifetimes.

They might not have a choice. Between users, and as you can see, the deluded who want even more coddling of users, drugs will be legalized. First pot, then the same arguments used to legalize pot will be used for every other drug out there from X to heroin. We may as well seize the circumstances and legalize it all now and take the results on the chin until the lifestyle itself starts reducing the number of users.

 

[High_Gravity]

Expand stand your ground laws.

There is no easy answer. The number of users has to be reduced. However it's done. We have a population with a significant percentage of drug users. For what ever reason these people can't function and need to get high to get through the day. They have been accommodated as far as accommodation can go. There has been no real war on drugs, perhaps ever. Something you know very well. At this point, legalization and very cheap or free product, in enough quantity to end their miserable existences might at least reduce their number and make taking drugs unattractive.

Thats an interesting strategy there but I don't see our government ever going for that, at least in our lifetimes.

They might not have a choice. Between users, and as you can see, the deluded who want even more coddling of users, drugs will be legalized. First pot, then the same arguments used to legalize pot will be used for every other drug out there from X to heroin. We may as well seize the circumstances and legalize it all now and take the results on the chin until the lifestyle itself starts reducing the number of users.

I'm curious about if they legalize drugs, what will the prices be? how much it will be for nickelbag of your finest smoke, or a gram of hashish?

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's why drugs should be very low cost, or preferably free.

As with everything else, let the market decide.

The lives of drug users aren't cheap, they are worthless. Whether it would appreciably lower the crime rate is debatable. The crimes not committed to get drugs would have to be offset by the crimes committed while users are on drugs and the crimes committed because there is no other source of funds to buy desirables.

You do realize that crimes committed while under the influence of marijuana are virtually non-existent, don't you?

In the beginning, it would probably mean a serious increase in criminal acticity, as users die off that would go down.

What do you base your claim on?

As far as saving money generally, it would not help the families of users who are deluded into providing medical care for them or rehabilitation services.

Do you think it is the responsibility of the government to make decisions for individual families?

Perhaps Michelle Obama can decide what your shopping list is...

As HG has said, his father spent thousands of dollars on a worthless brother. That was money ill spent.

As a free man, that was HIS decision, not yours.

Now if people stopped wasting their money like that, there might be a savings. As long as there are tax supported clinics and centers, the tax payers won't see any relief either. Whatever is spent on keeping users off the streets through the court system will be spent on their care and coddling. Again, though, as users die, these expenses will go down so it's more or less and investment in the future.

Do you have ANY idea how much is spent per year for incarcerating people?

Prison guard unions LOVE the drug war, they get their fat paychecks. The drug war serves the public employee unions, but not the public.

 

[Katzndogz]

Legalize all drugs, make them free or for very low cost.

Thinking that the main expenses of incarceration are for drugs is not true. Unless being high is an affirmative defense to criminal charges, the same people will be in prison for the same offenses. It isn't prisons making the money, it's the halfway houses, counseling centers, rehab and alternative sentencing that really rakes in the big money. Legalization should get rid of these institutions. Although, in San Francisco, users are demanding tax supported comfort rooms with a medical staff where they can get high and be monitored for collapse or overdose. That's something we can do without too.

Drugs should be treated like cupcakes. Just as legal, just as cheap, just as easily obtained. If HGs brother ate a lot of cupcakes there is no doubt that his father wouldn't be inclined to pay thousands of dollars to get him cupcake clean. He paid that money largely to keep the Bro out of trouble. Getting a addict clean, even for a short period of time, only prolongs their lives. Let them go, treat them like a collection of brain dead Terri Schiavos.

 

[High_Gravity]

Legalize all drugs, make them free or for very low cost.

Thinking that the main expenses of incarceration are for drugs is not true. Unless being high is an affirmative defense to criminal charges, the same people will be in prison for the same offenses. It isn't prisons making the money, it's the halfway houses, counseling centers, rehab and alternative sentencing that really rakes in the big money. Legalization should get rid of these institutions. Although, in San Francisco, users are demanding tax supported comfort rooms with a medical staff where they can get high and be monitored for collapse or overdose. That's something we can do without too.

Drugs should be treated like cupcakes. Just as legal, just as cheap, just as easily obtained. If HGs brother ate a lot of cupcakes there is no doubt that his father wouldn't be inclined to pay thousands of dollars to get him cupcake clean. He paid that money largely to keep the Bro out of trouble. Getting a addict clean, even for a short period of time, only prolongs their lives. Let them go, treat them like a collection of brain dead Terri Schiavos.

I get what you are saying however even with legalized drugs rehab center will still exist and hopeful parents will pay to send their drug addicted kids there, those places will have to close for the drug addicts to overdose themselves to death or to a commotuse state.

 

[Katzndogz]

Legalize all drugs, make them free or for very low cost.

Thinking that the main expenses of incarceration are for drugs is not true. Unless being high is an affirmative defense to criminal charges, the same people will be in prison for the same offenses. It isn't prisons making the money, it's the halfway houses, counseling centers, rehab and alternative sentencing that really rakes in the big money. Legalization should get rid of these institutions. Although, in San Francisco, users are demanding tax supported comfort rooms with a medical staff where they can get high and be monitored for collapse or overdose. That's something we can do without too.

Drugs should be treated like cupcakes. Just as legal, just as cheap, just as easily obtained. If HGs brother ate a lot of cupcakes there is no doubt that his father wouldn't be inclined to pay thousands of dollars to get him cupcake clean. He paid that money largely to keep the Bro out of trouble. Getting a addict clean, even for a short period of time, only prolongs their lives. Let them go, treat them like a collection of brain dead Terri Schiavos.

I get what you are saying however even with legalized drugs rehab center will still exist and hopeful parents will pay to send their drug addicted kids there, those places will have to close for the drug addicts to overdose themselves to death or to a commotuse state.

People can pay for anything they like. They pay thousands of dollars for centers that give them coffee enemas too. There are no public centers for coffee enemas. If we are legalizing drugs to somehow save money on prison incarceration, it makes no sense to then spend that money on the revolving door of rehab rather than the revolving door of prison. If the criteria is simply financial, it's senseless.