CDZ Inviting ALL leftists for an HONEST conversation

[P@triot]

Socialism is nationalizing the means of production.

More misinformation. Here is the official definition. It is not just “nationalizing the means of production”. Regulation places control over “private” industry as well.

 

[P@triot]

You’re openly admitting that it doesn’t work.

You actually just don't understand what I am saying at all.

Ok...so explain it to me. You did in the last post and I admitted you were right and I was wrong.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The left is pushing harder than ever for socialism. I've posed this question before but have been unable to get a single leftist to provide an answer: why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?

I'm asking an honest question here. Nobody is stopping the left from all getting together and creating a foundation/co-op/association/etc. in which everyone interested of their own free will puts their resources in for say "universal healthcare" or housing, etc. Nobody has ever stopped the left from doing that and nobody ever would. It has been an option since the U.S. was founded. And yet the left has refused. Why?

This is a lie – ‘the left’ is doing no such thing.

Clearly most conservatives are incapable of an ‘honest’ conversation.

 

[mamooth]

Appropriate. Bingo is a game and he is engaging in a childish game (such as claimfin Bernie Sanders isn’t a socialist when Bernie Sanders openly calls himself a socialist)

No, I didn't say that either. You're playing word games there. There's a distinct difference between "being a socialist" and "advocating government ownership of the means of production".

You refuse to define your terms. We can't have a discussion until you do. You are solely responsible for the lack of discussion on your own topic.

So, define "socialism", as you are using the term. Be precise.

If you want to have a discussion, that is. If you prefer to keep evading the discussion of your own topic, continue refusing to define your terms.

 

[Confounding]

You’re openly admitting that it doesn’t work.

You actually just don't understand what I am saying at all.

Ok...so explain it to me. You did in the last post and I admitted you were right and I was wrong.

People aren't focused enough on their own, and a lot of them just don't give a fuck. You can't start a gofundme for the big problems and call it a day. It's not going to be enough. That doesn't mean public universities and healthcare etc don't work. It just proves that the government is necessary for some things.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So what are you labeling as socialism exactly? Is universal healthcare socialism? Public universities?

Oh come on...enough with the games. We all know what socialism is.

Clearly you and most others on the right don’t – or you know what it is yet you continue to propagate this ridiculous lie that ‘the left’ is advocating for ‘socialism.’

 

[Confounding]

or you know what it is yet you continue to propagate this ridiculous lie that ‘the left’ is advocating for ‘socialism.’

I think he knows damn well what he's doing. It's a bad faith argument.

 

[impuretrash]

or you know what it is yet you continue to propagate this ridiculous lie that ‘the left’ is advocating for ‘socialism.’

I think he knows damn well what he's doing. It's a bad faith argument.

Maybe not. You need to understand that a lot of conservatives especially the older generation have a major hangup when it comes to the word socialism. Very similar to their obsession with "our greatest ally" Israel. I can't even talk about these topics with my mom or dad without them blowing a gasket. On the other hand, the left, both the young and old generation seem to have a similar mental block when it comes to "racism" whether real or imagined. Just a whiff of it and they shut down, conversation over.

 

[P@triot]

People aren't focused enough on their own, and a lot of them just don't give a fuck.

So just proved why the left-wing ideology doesn’t work. Too many people who “don’t give a fuck”. They are just looking to mooch off of the system. And the left wants to force people into this system that we just saw doesn’t work and cannot work.

 

[P@triot]

You can't start a gofundme for the big problems and call it a day.

Nobody suggested “GoFundMe”. I specifically said something like a co-op. If the left was serious about it, all leftists could put in everything they have and then equally divide those assets based on needs. You’re telling me millions of Bernie fans couldn’t all create a single co-op for single payer for them? Come on. Don’t be disingenuous. This was supposed to be an honest conversation.

 

[P@triot]

I think he knows damn well what he's doing. It's a bad faith argument.

It’s a 100% legitimate question. The left just gets pissy because they can’t provide a rational, reasonable answer.

 

[Oddball]

People aren't focused enough on their own, and a lot of them just don't give a fuck.

So just proved why the left-wing ideology doesn’t work. Too many people who “don’t give a fuck”. They are just looking to mooch off of the system. And the left wants to force people into this system that we just saw doesn’t work and cannot work.

This is classic projection....They're not worried that others don't give a fuck....They know that they don't give a fuck, and want to force others to give a fuck for them.

 

[Confounding]

Maybe not. You need to understand that a lot of conservatives especially the older generation have a major hangup when it comes to the word socialism. Very similar to their obsession with "our greatest ally" Israel. I can't even talk about these topics with my mom or dad without them blowing a gasket. On the other hand, the left, both the young and old generation seem to have a similar mental block when it comes to "racism" whether real or imagined. Just a whiff of it and they shut down, conversation over.

It's only because I know he's not ignorant that I want to question the integrity of his argument.

 

[P@triot]

People aren't focused enough on their own, and a lot of them just don't give a fuck.

So just proved why the left-wing ideology doesn’t work. Too many people who “don’t give a fuck”. They are just looking to mooch off of the system. And the left wants to force people into this system that we just saw doesn’t work and cannot work.

This is classic projection....They're not worried that others don't give a fuck....They know that they don't give a fuck, and want to force others to give a fuck for them.

It’s unbelievable. They admit it doesn’t work and then demand that everyone be forced into a system that they admit doesn’t work.

 

[Confounding]

So just proved why the left-wing ideology doesn’t work. Too many people who “don’t give a fuck”. They are just looking to mooch off of the system. And the left wants to force people into this system that we just saw doesn’t work and cannot work.

I am saying voluntary good will doesn't work because not enough people give a fuck. That's why it will only work if the government forces people to contribute.

 

[P@triot]

No I am saying voluntary good will doesn't work because not enough people give a fuck. That's why we need the government.

So you’re saying that all socialists don’t care enough about the socialism they demand to actively engage in socialism in a voluntary capacity? Do I have that right?

 

[Pogo]

why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?

Because the left isn't out to create socialism. That's a fake story the right pushes to deflect from the failure of conservative policies.

That is, you're not asking an honest question. You set up a dishonest strawman, so the correct response to that is to point out it's a dishonest strawman.

Don't lie..
Back in 2010, 68 percent of young people, 18-29 years old, said they approved of capitalism, while 51 percent said they approved of socialism, according to Gallup. Fast-forward to August 2018, and that same age group backs socialism over capitalism, 51 percent to 45 percent.

Democrats, meanwhile, were evenly split between capitalism and socialism back in 2010. But now, 57 percent say they hold a positive view of socialism, compared with just 47 percent who say the same for capitalism.
Americans warming to socialism over capitalism, polls show

Add your own numbers up. Whattaya get?

You get that "capitalism" and "socialism" are not mutually exclusive, or opposites, or whatever it is you thought you were going for there.

Happy to help. Sleep on it.

 

[Confounding]

Nobody suggested “GoFundMe”. I specifically said something like a co-op. If the left was serious about it, all leftists could put in everything they have and then equally divide those assets based on needs. You’re telling me millions of Bernie fans couldn’t all create a single co-op for single payer for them? Come on. Don’t be disingenuous. This was supposed to be an honest conversation.

Your suggestion wouldn't work.

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism is nationalizing the means of production.

More misinformation. Here is the official definition. It is not just “nationalizing the means of production”. Regulation places control over “private” industry as well.

View attachment 250003

There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14]-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

 

[Confounding]

So you’re saying that all socialists don’t care enough about the socialism they demand to actively engage in socialism in a voluntary capacity? Do I have that right?

I'm saying they wouldn't be able to muster enough money to solve big problems on their own. They know that, so they will use the government to force you to help a little bit.