CDZ Inviting ALL leftists for an HONEST conversation

[Oddball]

A means to the same totalitarian ends....You really think those who come after ol' Batshit Bernie are going to just stop there?

Once AGAIN there's nothing "totalitarian" about it on its own terms. Where a moment ago you were dropping an adjective as inconvenient, now you're inserting one in.

Socialism is totalitarian as a matter of course.

Prove that.

Nazi Germany, USSR, Maoist China, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea.

I said "Prove that", not "take a finger walk around your globe".

Nazi Germany was in no way "socialist" anyway, and you know that.

I gave you proof...You rejected that proof right on cue...Good job, comrade.

 

[Confounding]

Nazi Germany had lots of social programs intended to improve the quality of life for their citizens, didn't they?

Yep.

Hitler woulda been alright if not for all the Jew killing and nation conquering. He turned Germany into an economic powerhouse in just a handful of years.

 

[P@triot]

The Only reason Capitalism "works" is Because you don't Care about Equality like Socialism.

It is you leftists who don’t care about “equality”. You don’t want to put in equal effort, you don’t want to put in equal talent, and you really don’t want to put in equal time, but yet you want the end result to be “equal”.

Sorry, that equation doesn’t balance.

 

[Pogo]

Once AGAIN there's nothing "totalitarian" about it on its own terms. Where a moment ago you were dropping an adjective as inconvenient, now you're inserting one in.

Socialism is totalitarian as a matter of course.

Prove that.

Nazi Germany, USSR, Maoist China, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea.

I said "Prove that", not "take a finger walk around your globe".

Nazi Germany was in no way "socialist" anyway, and you know that.

Nazi Germany had lots of social programs intended to improve the quality of life for their citizens, didn't they?

Not that they came up with, no.

Universal healthcare, for instance, was already in place when Hitler was born (although in Austria).

The word "socialist" (as well as the word "workers'") was already in the name of the party before Hitler even joined it. He didn't like it but went along for the marketing value. Soon as he could though, he organized the SA ("brownshirts") to intimidate the actual Socialists, and soon as he came to power he declared their political party illegal, and soon as he had Dachau ready he made the Socialists, Communists and Liberals the first prisoners there. The NSDAP had as much to do with "socialism" as the cereal "Grape Nuts" has either of those ingredients. It's a name, put there to sell the product.

 

[P@triot]

Hitler woulda been alright if not for all the Jew killing and nation conquering. He turned Germany into an economic powerhouse in just a handful of years.

That was only made possible by “all the Jew killing and nation conquering”. Both of them created massive demand for massive industries.

 

[Pogo]

The Only reason Capitalism "works" is Because you don't Care about Equality like Socialism.

It is you leftists who don’t care about “equality”. You don’t want to put in equal effort, you don’t want to put in equal talent, and you really don’t want to put in equal time, but yet you want the end result to be “equal”.

Sorry, that equation doesn’t balance.

Yeah sorry Gomer but Equality is more a Liberal value than a "leftist" one.

 

[Pogo]

Once AGAIN there's nothing "totalitarian" about it on its own terms. Where a moment ago you were dropping an adjective as inconvenient, now you're inserting one in.

Socialism is totalitarian as a matter of course.

Prove that.

Nazi Germany, USSR, Maoist China, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea.

I said "Prove that", not "take a finger walk around your globe".

Nazi Germany was in no way "socialist" anyway, and you know that.

I gave you proof...You rejected that proof right on cue...Good job, comrade.

You gave me NOTHING. You gave me a laundry list of random countries, notably excluding Scandinavian ones.

When I say "prove that" your burden is to show cause and effect, not to point to a map and say "I see Germany I see France, I see somebody's underpants", K? Don't sit here and insult the audience. Association Fallacies and a five dollar bill will get you a cup of Starbucks but not without the latter.

 

[impuretrash]

Nazi Germany had lots of social programs intended to improve the quality of life for their citizens, didn't they?

Yep.

Hitler woulda been alright if not for all the Jew killing and nation conquering. He turned Germany into an economic powerhouse in just a handful of years.

Subtract the bad stuff and whats left is a socially conservative, fiscally socialist nation.

Is that Nationalism? Sounds pretty alright to me.

 

[P@triot]

It doesn't work with 10 people because 10 people aren't enough to make all the things we utilize.

Who said anything about “make”? Take healthcare. The left demands “single payer” or “universal” healthcare. Well, create a co-op that is completely voluntary and invite all socialists to join. Why can’t 10 people (or 10 million) people share each other’s healthcare costs in a voluntary program???

 

[P@triot]

That means there is no true Capitalism except in right wing fantasy.

That right. There is no true capitalism in the U.S. That was destroyed by the left in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s.

 

[impuretrash]

It doesn't work with 10 people because 10 people aren't enough to make all the things we utilize.

Who said anything about “make”? Take healthcare. The left demands “single payer” or “universal” healthcare. Well, create a co-op that is completely voluntary and invite all socialists to join. Why can’t 10 people (or 10 million) people share each other’s healthcare costs in a voluntary program???

Are you pretty well off financially? Secure in your future, got savings for retirement and all that?

 

[P@triot]

We still can't get P@triot to define what "socialism" is

I already did, but here it is again (for those who want to play childish games and pretend like they don’t know what the word means)

 

[Pogo]

That means there is no true Capitalism except in right wing fantasy.

That right. There is no true capitalism in the U.S. That was destroyed by the left in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s.

By "the left" you mean Teddy Roosevelt's trust-busting?

 

[impuretrash]

Socialism is totalitarian as a matter of course.

Prove that.

Nazi Germany, USSR, Maoist China, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea.

I said "Prove that", not "take a finger walk around your globe".

Nazi Germany was in no way "socialist" anyway, and you know that.

Nazi Germany had lots of social programs intended to improve the quality of life for their citizens, didn't they?

Not that they came up with, no.

Universal healthcare, for instance, was already in place when Hitler was born (although in Austria).

The word "socialist" (as well as the word "workers'") was already in the name of the party before Hitler even joined it. He didn't like it but went along for the marketing value. Soon as he could though, he organized the SA ("brownshirts") to intimidate the actual Socialists, and soon as he came to power he declared their political party illegal, and soon as he had Dachau ready he made the Socialists, Communists and Liberals the first prisoners there. The NSDAP had as much to do with "socialism" as the cereal "Grape Nuts" has either of those ingredients. It's a name, put there to sell the product.

I'm sorry but you seem to be doing the same thing Patriot does but in reverse. I know Nazis have a bad rep but just because they're "right wing" doesn't mean they're the devil, just as being "left" doesn;t make them angels. Look at what "socialism" did to Russia under Stalin. Are these labels really even all that useful? Right, left, socialist, capitalist...

 

[flacaltenn]

Having an HONEST discussion seems to be to much to ask.. But it doesn't help when the OP starts grading and counting the "leftist" responses..

Someone ASKS for clarification of terminology -- it SHOULD be given.. Y'all have forgotten HOW to discuss and create anything of value out of it..

Both sides just want quick scores and punch counts.. Try SLOWING DOWN, not tallying the score until YOU GET SOMEWHERE...

This COULD have been an interesting discussion if folks were honest and PATIENT.. But those concepts are also long gone...

You want to have CDZ discussions -- adjust your damn attitudes and report the OBVIOUS trolls to moderation..

 

[flacaltenn]

Just a few additional suggestions.. Write TIGHTER OPS when it's contentious.. Bypass the slogans and arguments over what fraction of this nation is NOW SUDDENLY socialist.. Go right for the question.. As in this OP --- if you had dropped the last line..

P@triot

And START the discussion with examples of co-ops, communes, employee owned businesses, ect.... LEAD INTO that discussion that you wanted. OR

If you want HONEST -- you need to CHOOSE honest and EXCLUDE the bombers, flamers, quibblers and shifty ones that moderation ends up tossing out and warning. So the other suggestion is to TRY the "Invite Only" format that is offered at USMB.. YOU CHOOSE the sides.. Without the mass participation... Stack them equally and your chances of honest discussion will astronomically increase... Contact me if you want help with the rules for Invite Only..