CDZ Inviting ALL leftists for an HONEST conversation

Status
Not open for further replies.

P@triot

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
54,277
Reaction score
7,073
Points
1,860
Location
United States
The left is pushing harder than ever for socialism. I've posed this question before but have been unable to get a single leftist to provide an answer: why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?

I'm asking an honest question here. Nobody is stopping the left from all getting together and creating a foundation/co-op/association/etc. in which everyone interested of their own free will puts their resources in for say "universal healthcare" or housing, etc. Nobody has ever stopped the left from doing that and nobody ever would. It has been an option since the U.S. was founded. And yet the left has refused. Why?
 

Billy_Kinetta

Paladin of the Lost Hour
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
50,386
Reaction score
18,002
Points
2,280
They want your immortal soul forever.
 

Confounding

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
7,106
Reaction score
1,530
Points
280
So what are you labeling as socialism exactly?

Is universal healthcare socialism?

Public universities?
 

mamooth

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
23,359
Reaction score
5,435
Points
290
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?
Because the left isn't out to create socialism. That's a fake story the right pushes to deflect from the failure of conservative policies.

That is, you're not asking an honest question. You set up a dishonest strawman, so the correct response to that is to point out it's a dishonest strawman.
 

koshergrl

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
79,997
Reaction score
13,020
Points
2,190
why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?
Because the left isn't out to create socialism. That's a fake story the right pushes to deflect from the failure of conservative policies.

That is, you're not asking an honest question. You set up a dishonest strawman, so the correct response to that is to point out it's a dishonest strawman.
Don't lie..
Back in 2010, 68 percent of young people, 18-29 years old, said they approved of capitalism, while 51 percent said they approved of socialism, according to Gallup. Fast-forward to August 2018, and that same age group backs socialism over capitalism, 51 percent to 45 percent.

Democrats, meanwhile, were evenly split between capitalism and socialism back in 2010. But now, 57 percent say they hold a positive view of socialism, compared with just 47 percent who say the same for capitalism.
Americans warming to socialism over capitalism, polls show
 

Confounding

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
7,106
Reaction score
1,530
Points
280
We all know what socialism is.
No, we don't all know what it means, because its meaning can be different depending on who is using the word in what context, and sometimes the same people will give the word two different meanings depending on what argument they're trying to make.

So right out of the gate I would like it to be defined by the OP.
 

debbiedowner

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
9,565
Reaction score
1,587
Points
275
The left is pushing harder than ever for socialism. I've posed this question before but have been unable to get a single leftist to provide an answer: why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?

I'm asking an honest question here. Nobody is stopping the left from all getting together and creating a foundation/co-op/association/etc. in which everyone interested of their own free will puts their resources in for say "universal healthcare" or housing, etc. Nobody has ever stopped the left from doing that and nobody ever would. It has been an option since the U.S. was founded. And yet the left has refused. Why?
There is no honest conversation on this board when you start out the left is pushing harder than ever for socialism, the left that is pushing is a handful of misguided children.
 
OP
P@triot

P@triot

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
54,277
Reaction score
7,073
Points
1,860
Location
United States
why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?
Because the left isn't out to create socialism. That's a fake story the right pushes to deflect from the failure of conservative policies.
Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and more have gone on record stating otherwise. I asked for an HONEST conversation. You came with the intent of a dishonest conversation. You just proved as much. Please leave now or be reported. Honest discussion only on this CDZ thread.
 

Confounding

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
7,106
Reaction score
1,530
Points
280
why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?
Because the left isn't out to create socialism. That's a fake story the right pushes to deflect from the failure of conservative policies.
Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and more have gone on record stating otherwise. I asked for an HONEST conversation. You came with the intent of a dishonest conversation. You just proved as much. Please leave now or be reported. Honest discussion only on this CDZ thread.
I think you misunderstand what Bernie represents. He doesn't want to shut down free market competition and give the government unlimited control. Yes, he calls himself a socialist, but if you listen to him you will quickly learn that he's talking about emulating what they do in Scandinavia. Scandinavian countries are actually capitalist. It would be more accurate to call Bernie a Nordic capitalist.
 

Rambunctious

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
37,291
Reaction score
17,357
Points
1,590
Libs think socialism means easy street for them...where all of their daily needs are taken care of by Government via taxes....most Americans pay no income tax so they believe they won't under socialism too...but they are wrong...everyone will pay big if people like AOC and the dems get their way....
 

candycorn

Alis volat propriis
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
70,195
Reaction score
13,010
Points
2,180
The left is pushing harder than ever for socialism. I've posed this question before but have been unable to get a single leftist to provide an answer: why doesn't the left just create socialism within the confines of the free market?

I'm asking an honest question here. Nobody is stopping the left from all getting together and creating a foundation/co-op/association/etc. in which everyone interested of their own free will puts their resources in for say "universal healthcare" or housing, etc. Nobody has ever stopped the left from doing that and nobody ever would. It has been an option since the U.S. was founded. And yet the left has refused. Why?
Who is going to represent the right? You’re the guy who thinks Trump doesn’t lie. So you’re disqualified.

As for the proposal….

I’ve long held that the NEA and CPB could be funded by a consortium of movie studios who could fund an endowment and fund the projects that are currently funded. Its about $300M. It may take a few years to get there but funding levels could be restored in about 20 years.

Despite Threats of Budget-Slashing, the NEA Actually Saw Its Funding Increase in Congress's Newly Passed Budget | artnet News

I would also contend that the endowment would be much better for the arts in general. What you would see (rightly so in my view) is less of the dead air. PBS has some useless programming which appeals to very few people. Frontline, American Experience, NOVA, Masterpiece Theater etc… won’t have to worry. History of the ladybug? Yeah…that may fall off the earth.
 
OP
P@triot

P@triot

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
54,277
Reaction score
7,073
Points
1,860
Location
United States
I think you misunderstand what Bernie represents. He doesn't want to shut down free market competition and give the government unlimited control. Yes, he calls himself a socialist, but if you listen to him you will quickly learn that he's talking about emulating what they do in Scandinavia. Scandinavian countries are actually capitalist. It would be more accurate to call Bernie a Nordic capitalist.
Then why has Bernie Sanders himself declared his is a “Socialist” instead of a “Nordic Capitalist”? Why can’t you guys just have an honest conversation here?

But...even playing this silly game...why doesn’t Bernie Sanders and his supporters achieve their “Nordic capitalism” through free-will in some sort of an organization/co-op/association/etc.? This is a simple question. Let’s not run from it. Let’s discuss it.
 

impuretrash

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
10,292
Reaction score
2,076
Points
290
Let's face it, no offense lefties...but the reason why socialism is so popular with the young and hip crowd is because it has the word "social" in it.
 

Confounding

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
7,106
Reaction score
1,530
Points
280
Then why has Bernie Sanders himself declared his is a “Socialist” instead of a “Nordic Capitalist”?
I would love to ask him. He apparently sucks at marketing himself.

But...even playing this silly game...why doesn’t Bernie Sanders and his supporters achieve their “Nordic capitalism” through free-will in some sort of an organization/co-op/association/etc.? This is a simple question. Let’s not run from it. Let’s discuss it.
Because it wouldn't work that way. Compulsory contribution is required to reach the numbers needed to effectively mitigate the problems they're trying to mitigate.
 

mamooth

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
23,359
Reaction score
5,435
Points
290
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and more have gone on record stating otherwise.
If you didn't make it up, I'm sure you can point out where they said the government should nationalize all means of production.

Words mean things. Socialism means the government owns all means of production. You don't get to make up fake definitions of socialism without getting called on it. Single payer health care is not socialism. Someone calling themselves a Democratic Socialist is not socialism.

I asked for an HONEST conversation.
And I'm giving it to you. The fact that it upsets you doesn't change that.

You came with the intent of a dishonest conversation. You just proved as much. Please leave now or be reported. Honest discussion only on this CDZ thread.
If you'd like to switch the dishonest strawman question in your OP to an honest question, I suggest "Why don't liberals implement independent insurance markets?". Would you like to do that?
 
OP
P@triot

P@triot

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
54,277
Reaction score
7,073
Points
1,860
Location
United States
Because it wouldn't work that way. Compulsory contribution is required to reach the numbers needed to effectively mitigate the problems they're trying to mitigate.
What are the “numbers needed”? What is that range?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top