Introduction / Obama and Clinton Aren't That Different

[SingingMongoose]

Hello!

I haven't been on a politics message board in years, so I'm not totally sure how to introduce myself. I'm a college student who likes green tea and mismatched clothing, which should be all you need to make a decent guess about my political views, hehe.

I suppose I'm here because I'm interested in politics, and remember being much better-informed when I spent my time arguing about it on the internet. It also helps that school's out for the summer, which gives me enough time to do stuff like this.

Finally, if I'm unwittingly breaking any rules, I assure you I don't really want to, and would love to know how to stop breaking them.

I think that about does it for an intro. I think it would be boring to just introduce myself, so I'll throw in my two cents on our country's two favorite left-of-center Democrats:

From MAPLight.org, the Top Ten Interests Donating to Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton...

Clinton:
Attorneys and Law Firms - $18,017,518
Retired - $9,037,375
General commerce - $7,356,134
Security brokers & investment companies - $4,450,348
Schools & colleges - $3,063,884
Real estate - $2,695,967
Business services - $2,242,681
Real Estate developers & subdividers - $2,013,705
Real estate agents - $1,967,037
Investment banking - $1,930,710

Obama:
Attorneys & law firms - $15,515,104
General commerce - $10,446,476
Retired - $10,149,738
Schools & colleges - $4,462,721
Security brokers & investment companies - $4,090,001
Business services - $1,782,227
Civil servant/public employee - $1,778,497
Real estate - $1,555,152
Book, newspaper & periodical publishing - $1,483,892
Investment banking - $1,396,930

Is it just me, or have we wasted several months of time, energy and resources on a completely pointless power struggle? (And why does it give me deja vu?)

 

[Jon]

Now you have to look at it from a different angle. Separate by race, gender, religion, age, income, hair color, shoe size, location, and weight, and you pretty much sum up what people have been arguing about for a year.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Hillary is smart enough to know the ropes and how to work with Congress, including that "vast right wing Conspiracy" Obama is not.

Obama is farther left then Hillary and in my opinion unlikely to work with anyone. Another Carter in the making. He has way to much racial baggage to be our President.

Anyone that would spend 20 years listening to Wright, call him a close personal friend, a mentor and have him as their spiritual advisor has racial issues. He can disclaim them all he wants, he is lying.

The only "change" he will bring is racial bigotry and far left ideals.

 

[midcan5]

Donations mean little as I'm sure the same groups give to McCain. What matters is a sense of the values America was founded on. Both Hillary and Barack represent these values, actually McCain, minus his illegal war stance, does too. But we need a change from politics that support only trickle down, the corporation, or the pentagon.

http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

Obama/Huckabee 2008

 

[doeton]

race, gender, religion, age, income, hair color, shoe size, location, and weight, and you pretty much sum up what people have been arguing about for a year.

err ah...indeed that sums it for sanders...

people able to look beyond that might considered.


oh i don't THE VOTE ON THE WAR!

or oh hillary's continued bellicosity alla "obliterate iran" or i don't talk to enemies. in other words more of GW's failed foreign policy.

or her fear mongering campaign ads, worthy of a publican.

but it is refreshing to see sanders come to terms with what this campaign has been about for him

 

[rayboyusmc]

The only "change" he will bring is racial bigotry

Sorry, but he's too late on that one. The racial bigotry already exists. Maybe if we finally have a black president, it might lessen.
and far left ideals.

To many on this board, those are a lot better than far right ideals.

Their biggest difference is on how they would handle Iraq. Clinton will stay longer, Obama will move to remove us a little faster.

 

[SingingMongoose]

For those who remain unconvinced, take a quick glance at the candidates' voting records. Unlike "values America was founded on," which are just vague and meaningless enough to be the morals of Disney movies, voting records give some indication of what a candidate will actually do (or not do).

The voting records are pretty revealing. The National Journal's website shows it clearly, as part of their calculations for "most liberal senator" (incidentally, that's a very misleading moniker, but the records are still useful). I'd post the link, but I don't have privileges to do so, so I simply advise googling "most liberal senators," selecting the entry regarding the National Journal, and selecting "Obama and Clinton's key votes" on the right side of the following page.

And that's more enlightening than a year's-worth of talking heads babbling about "character" and "values."

 

[Jon]

For those who remain unconvinced, take a quick glance at the candidates' voting records. Unlike "values America was founded on," which are just vague and meaningless enough to be the morals of Disney movies, voting records give some indication of what a candidate will actually do (or not do).

The voting records are pretty revealing. The National Journal's website shows it clearly, as part of their calculations for "most liberal senator" (incidentally, that's a very misleading moniker, but the records are still useful). I'd post the link, but I don't have privileges to do so, so I simply advise googling "most liberal senators," selecting the entry regarding the National Journal, and selecting "Obama and Clinton's key votes" on the right side of the following page.

And that's more enlightening than a year's-worth of talking heads babbling about "character" and "values."

Wow, Mongoose, thanks for the tip.

Looking at Obama's voting record, I'm most disgusting with all the "Did not votes".

Things he did not vote for:

-Create a national action plan for reducing oil consumption by 35 percent by 2030.
-Increase financial aid for college students and reduce subsidies for student-loan lenders.
-Block most non-pregnant adults from coverage under the State Children's Health Insurance Program.
-Eliminate an immigrant guest-worker program.
-Limit debate on a measure expressing no confidence in Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.

No wonder the guy has no experience in politics. It seems he doesn't even vote half the time.

 

[SingingMongoose]

Wow, Mongoose, thanks for the tip.

Looking at Obama's voting record, I'm most disgusting with all the "Did not votes".

No problem, but I think that's pretty common for presidential candidates. Clinton missed almost as many as Obama, and I know McCain also had a lot of no-votes (not sure how he stacks up against the other two though). Unfortunately, one can't succeed in a presidential election without shirking other duties.

 

[jreeves]

err ah...indeed that sums it for sanders...

people able to look beyond that might considered.


oh i don't THE VOTE ON THE WAR!

or oh hillary's continued bellicosity alla "obliterate iran" or i don't talk to enemies. in other words more of GW's failed foreign policy.

or her fear mongering campaign ads, worthy of a publican.

but it is refreshing to see sanders come to terms with what this campaign has been about for him

Yeah let's let our senior foriegn policy leader go cut underhanded deals with Hamas and alienate ourselves from our allies...

 

[Jon]

No problem, but I think that's pretty common for presidential candidates. Clinton missed almost as many as Obama, and I know McCain also had a lot of no-votes (not sure how he stacks up against the other two though). Unfortunately, one can't succeed in a presidential election without shirking other duties.

Every no-vote she had except for one, Obama also had. But the issues I just mentioned, the ones that, in my opinion, matter most, he had no voice.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/votes.htm

Here's the record. I counted roughtly 17 no-votes for her, and 34 for Obama. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[doeton]

"Yeah let's let our senior foriegn policy leader go cut underhanded deals with Hamas and alienate ourselves from our allies..."

underhanded? your thinking of ronald reagan and his guns for hostages.

Obama plans nothing of the sort.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

"Yeah let's let our senior foriegn policy leader go cut underhanded deals with Hamas and alienate ourselves from our allies..."

underhanded? your thinking of ronald reagan and his guns for hostages.

Obama plans nothing of the sort.

Iran was scared to death of what was about to happen before Reagan's inaugaration. Carter's misdirections, failed policies, allowed the mullahs to rule the country which is what we see today. Nope, it wasn't the guns for hostages, it was Iran's fear of what Reagan would do when he took over the presidency. Iran couldn't stop laughing at Carter.

 

[doeton]

scared? or hungry for more?


"The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing was a major incident on October 23, 1983, during the Lebanese Civil War. Two truck bombs struck separate buildings in Beirut housing U.S. and French members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon, killing hundreds of servicemen, the majority being U.S. Marines. The blasts led to the withdrawal of the international peacekeeping force from Lebanon, where they had been stationed since the Israeli 1982 invasion of Lebanon. "Islamic Jihad" took responsibility for the bombing, but that organization is thought to have been a nom de guerre for Hezbollah receiving help from the Islamic Republic of Iran.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

Wow, I've never read such a Billary fanatic like jsanders in my life.

 

[Gunny]

err ah...indeed that sums it for sanders...

people able to look beyond that might considered.


oh i don't THE VOTE ON THE WAR!

or oh hillary's continued bellicosity alla "obliterate iran" or i don't talk to enemies. in other words more of GW's failed foreign policy.

or her fear mongering campaign ads, worthy of a publican.

but it is refreshing to see sanders come to terms with what this campaign has been about for him

What's it been about for you? Besides insulting conservatives with no other substance to your posts?

Oh ... answered my own question ....