Illusion vs. Reality: The Rampant Voter Fraud Myth

[phoenyx]

Here is a good summation of minor issue that voter fraud is:
**In August, Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola University Law School, detailed for Wonkblog 31 instances of documented, in-person voter fraud that would have been prevented by stricter rules around identification at the polling place. The most severe instance Levitt outlined involved as many as 24 voters in Brooklyn who tried to vote under assumed names.

There are almost no elections in which 24 votes makes a significant difference, particularly at the federal level. The graph below compares the vote total and the margin of victory for every race with less than a million votes in general elections since 2006.**

Source: The disconnect between voter ID laws and voter fraud

Some more points:
**
Here are some selections from our reporting on the voter fraud myth and the impact of anti-voter-fraud laws:

• The rate of fraud in US elections is close to zero.
• UFO sightings are more common than voter fraud.
• So is getting struck by lightning.
• Florida’s aggressive efforts to root out voter fraud before the 2000 election erroneously purged 12,000 names from the voter rolls—of the 12,000, 44 percent, more than 4,700 voters—were African American. That was more than enough votes to change the outcome of that year's presidential election.
• Native Americans are fighting a slew of high-stakes legal battles over voting rights; many of the lawsuits are linked to rules that were designed to prevent voting fraud.
• Voter ID laws are among a host of hurdles that minorities face when they cast a ballot.
• A national voter ID card could end the debate on voter fraud, but both parties hate that idea.
• GOP presidential contender Ted Cruz's Iowa chairman spent $250,000 to stop people from voting.
• Interestingly, a conservative activist inadvertently demonstrated how hard it is to commit voter fraud.**

Source: 9 facts that blow up the voter fraud myth

I'm interested in hearing constructive views as to the validity of these sources.

I've already been discussing voter fraud in my introduction thread, so I'll be moving my responses to points there into this thread...

 

[phoenyx]

Don't discount your northern neighbours. You think people outside of the U.S. can't influence who Americans vote for? We may be smaller in number, but some of us are quite intelligent, and with intelligence comes to ability to influence. Or for those like me who are avid Game of Thrones fans, "a small man can cast a very large shadow"...

If you are democrats, I am sure there are places where you can vote in the US, but for the most part, no.

Not the old canard of voter fraud -.-...
9 facts that blow up the voter fraud myth

You also seem to have missed the issue of influence -.-

Voter fraud isn't a myth. Canadians influencing US elections, not that my friend, is a bona fide Canadian myth.

Nothing like a discussion where one side brings up facts and the other side simply contradicts. I've entered into the 'argument clinic', time to move on ...

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

 

[Dekster]

If you are democrats, I am sure there are places where you can vote in the US, but for the most part, no.

Not the old canard of voter fraud -.-...
9 facts that blow up the voter fraud myth

You also seem to have missed the issue of influence -.-

Voter fraud isn't a myth. Canadians influencing US elections, not that my friend, is a bona fide Canadian myth.

Nothing like a discussion where one side brings up facts and the other side simply contradicts. I've entered into the 'argument clinic', time to move on ...

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

 

[phoenyx]

Not the old canard of voter fraud -.-...
9 facts that blow up the voter fraud myth

You also seem to have missed the issue of influence -.-

Voter fraud isn't a myth. Canadians influencing US elections, not that my friend, is a bona fide Canadian myth.

Nothing like a discussion where one side brings up facts and the other side simply contradicts. I've entered into the 'argument clinic', time to move on ...

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

 

[Dekster]

Voter fraud isn't a myth. Canadians influencing US elections, not that my friend, is a bona fide Canadian myth.

Nothing like a discussion where one side brings up facts and the other side simply contradicts. I've entered into the 'argument clinic', time to move on ...

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

What you think they seem to do doesn't really play out in reality. The people most hurt by voter ID laws are elderly conservatives in rural areas. What the DNC is doing to pander to its base with the unending "racism" card is keeping the GOP from slitting its own throat with their most loyal off year election base.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here is a good summation of minor issue that voter fraud is:
**In August, Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola University Law School, detailed for Wonkblog 31 instances of documented, in-person voter fraud that would have been prevented by stricter rules around identification at the polling place. The most severe instance Levitt outlined involved as many as 24 voters in Brooklyn who tried to vote under assumed names.

There are almost no elections in which 24 votes makes a significant difference, particularly at the federal level. The graph below compares the vote total and the margin of victory for every race with less than a million votes in general elections since 2006.**

Source: The disconnect between voter ID laws and voter fraud

Some more points:
**
Here are some selections from our reporting on the voter fraud myth and the impact of anti-voter-fraud laws:

• The rate of fraud in US elections is close to zero.
• UFO sightings are more common than voter fraud.
• So is getting struck by lightning.
• Florida’s aggressive efforts to root out voter fraud before the 2000 election erroneously purged 12,000 names from the voter rolls—of the 12,000, 44 percent, more than 4,700 voters—were African American. That was more than enough votes to change the outcome of that year's presidential election.
• Native Americans are fighting a slew of high-stakes legal battles over voting rights; many of the lawsuits are linked to rules that were designed to prevent voting fraud.
• Voter ID laws are among a host of hurdles that minorities face when they cast a ballot.
• A national voter ID card could end the debate on voter fraud, but both parties hate that idea.
• GOP presidential contender Ted Cruz's Iowa chairman spent $250,000 to stop people from voting.
• Interestingly, a conservative activist inadvertently demonstrated how hard it is to commit voter fraud.**

Source: 9 facts that blow up the voter fraud myth

I'm interested in hearing constructive views as to the validity of these sources.

I've already been discussing voter fraud in my introduction thread, so I'll be moving my responses to points there into this thread...

The rate of fraud in US elections is close to zero.

Thanks. Always like to start my day with a good laugh.

 

[Manonthestreet]

There are over 100 counties and couple of states that have more registered voters than actual voters........several counties reported over 100% voter participation last election

 

[Obiwan]

There are over 100 counties and couple of states that have more registered voters than actual voters........several counties reported over 100% voter participation last election

Well, you know the saying...

Once you die, you go to heaven, become a Democrat, and can vote early and often!!!

 

[Vastator]

Yeah like that accounts for the massive amounts of fraud the democrats commit without being held to account for it...

 

[phoenyx]

There are over 100 counties and couple of states that have more registered voters than actual voters........several counties reported over 100% voter participation last election

Do you have any evidence that voters themselves were registering more then once? Have you ever considered these extra registrations may have been caused by the wider umbrella of electoral fraud, made by those running the system instead of regular voters? Here's something to consider:
**
Tampering with electronic voting machines[edit]
All voting systems face threats of some form of electoral fraud. The types of threats that affect voting machines can vary from other forms of voting systems, some threats may be prevented and others introduced.[37]

Some forms of electoral fraud specific to electronic voting machines are listed below. Recent research at Argonne National Laboratories demonstrates that if a malicious actor is able to gain physical access to a voting machine, it can be a simple process to manipulate certain electronic voting machines, such as the Diebold Accuvote TS, by inserting inexpensive, readily available electronic components inside the machine.[38][39]

• Tampering with the software of a voting machine to add malicious code altering vote totals or favor any candidate. In any way even by the products making company.
  • Multiple groups have demonstrated this possibility.[40][41][42]
  • Private companies manufacture these machines. Many companies will not allow public access or review of the machines source code, claiming fear of exposing trade secrets.[43]
• Tampering with the hardware of the voting machine to alter vote totals or favor any candidate.[41]
  • Some of these machines require a smartcard to activate the machine and vote. However, a fraudulent smart card could attempt to gain access to vote multiple times.[44]
• Abusing the administrative access to the machine by election officials might also allow individuals to vote multiple times.
• Election results that are sent directly over the internet from a county count center to the state count center can be vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack, where they are diverted to an intermediate web site where the man in the middle flips the votes in favor of a certain candidate and then immediately forwards them on to the state count center. All votes sent over the internet violate chain of custody and hence should be avoided by driving or flying memory cards in locked metal containers from county count centers to the state count center. For purposes of getting quick preliminary statewide results on election night, encrypted votes can be sent over the internet, but final official results should be tabulated the next day only after the actual memory cards arrive in secure metal containers and are counted.[45]**

Source: Electoral fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BULLDOG]

Nothing like a discussion where one side brings up facts and the other side simply contradicts. I've entered into the 'argument clinic', time to move on ...

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

What you think they seem to do doesn't really play out in reality. The people most hurt by voter ID laws are elderly conservatives in rural areas. What the DNC is doing to pander to its base with the unending "racism" card is keeping the GOP from slitting its own throat with their most loyal off year election base.

You can look at it any way you want. The main thing is that the new voter ID laws prevent people from voting no matter which party is effected most, and they should be done away with.

 

[phoenyx]

Here is a good summation of minor issue that voter fraud is:
**In August, Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola University Law School, detailed for Wonkblog 31 instances of documented, in-person voter fraud that would have been prevented by stricter rules around identification at the polling place. The most severe instance Levitt outlined involved as many as 24 voters in Brooklyn who tried to vote under assumed names.

There are almost no elections in which 24 votes makes a significant difference, particularly at the federal level. The graph below compares the vote total and the margin of victory for every race with less than a million votes in general elections since 2006.**

Source: The disconnect between voter ID laws and voter fraud

Some more points:
**
Here are some selections from our reporting on the voter fraud myth and the impact of anti-voter-fraud laws:

• The rate of fraud in US elections is close to zero.
• UFO sightings are more common than voter fraud.
• So is getting struck by lightning.
• Florida’s aggressive efforts to root out voter fraud before the 2000 election erroneously purged 12,000 names from the voter rolls—of the 12,000, 44 percent, more than 4,700 voters—were African American. That was more than enough votes to change the outcome of that year's presidential election.
• Native Americans are fighting a slew of high-stakes legal battles over voting rights; many of the lawsuits are linked to rules that were designed to prevent voting fraud.
• Voter ID laws are among a host of hurdles that minorities face when they cast a ballot.
• A national voter ID card could end the debate on voter fraud, but both parties hate that idea.
• GOP presidential contender Ted Cruz's Iowa chairman spent $250,000 to stop people from voting.
• Interestingly, a conservative activist inadvertently demonstrated how hard it is to commit voter fraud.**

Source: 9 facts that blow up the voter fraud myth

I'm interested in hearing constructive views as to the validity of these sources.

I've already been discussing voter fraud in my introduction thread, so I'll be moving my responses to points there into this thread...

The rate of fraud in US elections is close to zero.

Thanks. Always like to start my day with a good laugh.

They should have said the rate of -voter fraud- is close to zero. The wider umbrella of Electoral fraud is another matter:
Electoral fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[phoenyx]

Nothing like a discussion where one side brings up facts and the other side simply contradicts. I've entered into the 'argument clinic', time to move on ...

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

What you think they seem to do doesn't really play out in reality. The people most hurt by voter ID laws are elderly conservatives in rural areas. What the DNC is doing to pander to its base with the unending "racism" card is keeping the GOP from slitting its own throat with their most loyal off year election base.

What evidence do you have for your assertion? For my part of the argument:
Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

 

[Dekster]

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

What you think they seem to do doesn't really play out in reality. The people most hurt by voter ID laws are elderly conservatives in rural areas. What the DNC is doing to pander to its base with the unending "racism" card is keeping the GOP from slitting its own throat with their most loyal off year election base.

You can look at it any way you want. The main thing is that the new voter ID laws prevent people from voting no matter which party is effected most, and they should be done away with.

I think they should be expanded. Not having a photo ID puts you at such margins of society that enabling people to not be able to carry out most transactions we do every day other than voting is cruel and a disservice to them and society like being able to cash a check at a bank instead of a convenience store that takes a chunk of it.

 

[Obiwan]

There are over 100 counties and couple of states that have more registered voters than actual voters........several counties reported over 100% voter participation last election

Do you have any evidence that voters themselves were registering more then once? Have you ever considered these extra registrations may have been caused by the wider umbrella of electoral fraud, made by those running the system instead of regular voters? Here's something to consider:
**
Tampering with electronic voting machines[edit]
All voting systems face threats of some form of electoral fraud. The types of threats that affect voting machines can vary from other forms of voting systems, some threats may be prevented and others introduced.[37]

Some forms of electoral fraud specific to electronic voting machines are listed below. Recent research at Argonne National Laboratories demonstrates that if a malicious actor is able to gain physical access to a voting machine, it can be a simple process to manipulate certain electronic voting machines, such as the Diebold Accuvote TS, by inserting inexpensive, readily available electronic components inside the machine.[38][39]

• Tampering with the software of a voting machine to add malicious code altering vote totals or favor any candidate. In any way even by the products making company.
  • Multiple groups have demonstrated this possibility.[40][41][42]
  • Private companies manufacture these machines. Many companies will not allow public access or review of the machines source code, claiming fear of exposing trade secrets.[43]
• Tampering with the hardware of the voting machine to alter vote totals or favor any candidate.[41]
  • Some of these machines require a smartcard to activate the machine and vote. However, a fraudulent smart card could attempt to gain access to vote multiple times.[44]
• Abusing the administrative access to the machine by election officials might also allow individuals to vote multiple times.
• Election results that are sent directly over the internet from a county count center to the state count center can be vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack, where they are diverted to an intermediate web site where the man in the middle flips the votes in favor of a certain candidate and then immediately forwards them on to the state count center. All votes sent over the internet violate chain of custody and hence should be avoided by driving or flying memory cards in locked metal containers from county count centers to the state count center. For purposes of getting quick preliminary statewide results on election night, encrypted votes can be sent over the internet, but final official results should be tabulated the next day only after the actual memory cards arrive in secure metal containers and are counted.[45]**

Source: Electoral fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting input...

Do you have two firing brain cells, where you can connect that post to this???

Soros-connected Vote-counting Firm Expands in U.S.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

What you think they seem to do doesn't really play out in reality. The people most hurt by voter ID laws are elderly conservatives in rural areas. What the DNC is doing to pander to its base with the unending "racism" card is keeping the GOP from slitting its own throat with their most loyal off year election base.

You can look at it any way you want. The main thing is that the new voter ID laws prevent people from voting no matter which party is effected most, and they should be done away with.

I think they should be expanded. Not having a photo ID puts you at such margins of society that enabling people to not be able to carry out most transactions we do every day other than voting is cruel and a disservice to them and society like being able to cash a check at a bank instead of a convenience store that takes a chunk of it.

People don't use convenience stores to cash checks because they don't have ID. They use convenience stores because they don't have bank accounts.

 

[Manonthestreet]

When you have over 100% participation thats called fraud..........when you have more registered voters than actual voters thats fraud.......this is allowed to persist and protected by one party...democrats

 

[Obiwan]

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

What you think they seem to do doesn't really play out in reality. The people most hurt by voter ID laws are elderly conservatives in rural areas. What the DNC is doing to pander to its base with the unending "racism" card is keeping the GOP from slitting its own throat with their most loyal off year election base.

What evidence do you have for your assertion? For my part of the argument:
Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

Really??.

So if you're a poor Democrat you can't get a FREE ID????

Gee, I thought Democrats had that "free shit" thing down pat!!!!

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

There are over 100 counties and couple of states that have more registered voters than actual voters........several counties reported over 100% voter participation last election

Provide the sources of your claim and at least some list of the examples you cited. If your daddy can beat up the OP author's daddy, fucking prove it. Non-purged voter rolls full of names of people who have relocated, died or been imprisoned are not proof of voter fraud! It indicates lazy auditor office staffs and piss poor management!

 

[phoenyx]

It's true that there have been a few cases of apparent voter fraud. However, as my opening article makes clear, the cases have been minimal. The disenfranchisement of voters through voter id laws as well as down and dirty disenfranchisement of voters without even the pretext of a voter id law to back it up, has been shown to be quite real, however, while I also believe my opening post in this thread demonstrates...

Why did you start a new thread when you could have just admitted in the other one that voter fraud isn't a myth? Just because it isn't rampant, does not mean it is a myth.

I started a new thread because the old one (my introduction thread) was not a place to be talking at length about political matters- that's what the -rest- of this forum is for . As to voter fraud not being a myth entirely, alright, fair enough, there have been a few reported cases. That being said, there have been a -massive- amount of disenfranchisement cases, many caused by voter id laws that seem to be targeted to suppress the votes of blacks and the poor.

What you think they seem to do doesn't really play out in reality. The people most hurt by voter ID laws are elderly conservatives in rural areas. What the DNC is doing to pander to its base with the unending "racism" card is keeping the GOP from slitting its own throat with their most loyal off year election base.

You can look at it any way you want. The main thing is that the new voter ID laws prevent people from voting no matter which party is effected most, and they should be done away with.

I think they should be expanded. Not having a photo ID puts you at such margins of society that enabling people to not be able to carry out most transactions we do every day other than voting is cruel and a disservice to them and society like being able to cash a check at a bank instead of a convenience store that takes a chunk of it.

You advocating that the government pay the -costs- of getting these voter ids as well? Or ensuring that state officials don't close down driver's registration offices even as they're instituting these voter id laws? If not, the result of any expansion will simply be the disenfranchisement of many more voters, regardless of what those supporting such expansions claim it will do for the poor.

Here's some reading you might want to look at:
Alabama DMV closings draw call for federal voting rights probe

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.