If you don't believe in God...

[PratchettFan]

If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?

What do you mean by "God"?

I thought about that too.

There are a whole shit load of gods to choose from.

Quite right. I personally believe in God, but my idea of what that means may be so different from the OP that, from his perspective, I do not believe in God. The question is difficult to answer without some idea of what is being discussed.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?

One cannot not believe in something that doesn't exist to begin with.

 

[Moonglow]

How in the Hell did Gysmo! Become the topic of God?

 

[Moonglow]

Science, logic, reality.

Our world/planet/universe is as it is because it can't be any other way.

Given the givens, it is the only thing it can be.

An example: When I lived in the desert southwest, people would ooo and awww over the incredible saguaro cactus.

They would say, 'isn't it amazing that they grow here in this inhospitable desert?'

The answer is, they grow there because the conditions are perfect for them. If you try to grow them someplace else, they will wither and die.

Some people want to believe that some magical sky fairy created human beings but fact is, we evolved here because the conditions are perfect for that to happen.

That's no excuse for bland clothing styles...

 

[PixieStix]

Most people have a god, most worship something without even understanding that they have made some entity their god.

From what I see, many people worship at the altar of technology. Cell phones are a must, internet connection is a need. Being connected to the rest of the world is absolutely necessary.

The question is, what must one sacrifice on this altar?

 

[PixieStix]

If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?

What do you mean by "God"?

I thought about that too.

There are a whole shit load of gods to choose from.

What or whom, is your god?

 

[PratchettFan]

If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?

One cannot not believe in something that doesn't exist to begin with.

By that logic, you have just proven the existence of God. i.e., Given that one cannot believe in that which does not exist, it is a fact people do believe, therefore what they believe must exist.

 

[sealybobo]

If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?

I believe we don't know everything. I believe in justice. I believe in karma good and bad. I believe man made up the idea of god and not the other way around. I believe everything written and said in the bible or koran are from one man's mind to his mouth and then a man wrote down those things and anyone today who's religious is basically still believing a fairytale much like our children believe in Santa.

I believe the born again who doesn't even think other christians are going to heaven because they haven't been born again IS INSANE. Seriously, if anyone else told you they talked to an invisible man who banishes people to hell for jacking off or butt sex and that invisible man wasn't jesus you would think he was crazy.

I believe all the people on tv are only out to get your money sucka.

I believe in what I can see/prove. To DEMAND we believe your impossible stories or go to hell is unbelievable.

Why, what do you believe? You can't possible really believe that. You've been brainwashed from a little baby. A cult.

 

[sealybobo]

If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?

One cannot not believe in something that doesn't exist to begin with.

By that logic, you have just proven the existence of God. i.e., Given that one cannot believe in that which does not exist, it is a fact people do believe, therefore what they believe must exist.

So Santa is real?

 

[sealybobo]

Most people have a god, most worship something without even understanding that they have made some entity their god.

From what I see, many people worship at the altar of technology. Cell phones are a must, internet connection is a need. Being connected to the rest of the world is absolutely necessary.

The question is, what must one sacrifice on this altar?

If you are going to worship something worship the sun. That's how it all started. Then the tribal leaders/kings/pharaohs gave themselves divine rights and corrupted what started off an innocent and appropriate thing to worship, the sun. It provides us with life. We should pray every night that it comes back. Pray to her little brother the moon too.

Not an invisible man that acts like big brother when the law isn't around. Imagine a god that doesn't want you to steal, jack off, think dirty thoughts, dishonor your parents. That one alone, dishonor your parents is all the proof you should need to know who invented religion. The elders used it to control the masses, their kids, their slaves, the flock.

 

[PratchettFan]

One cannot not believe in something that doesn't exist to begin with.

By that logic, you have just proven the existence of God. i.e., Given that one cannot believe in that which does not exist, it is a fact people do believe, therefore what they believe must exist.

So Santa is real?

So it would seem. I think OSHA should do a suprise inspection on that sweat shop he runs at the North Pole.

 

[PixieStix]

blah, blah blah

Same old, same old

 

[sealybobo]

By that logic, you have just proven the existence of God. i.e., Given that one cannot believe in that which does not exist, it is a fact people do believe, therefore what they believe must exist.

So Santa is real?

So it would seem. I think OSHA should do a suprise inspection on that sweat shop he runs at the North Pole.

OMG I had an adult DOT HEAD Indian come in last week and start telling me about his non denominational church and I'm fascinated that an indian is a christian and so I'm asking him all kinds of questions and I find out he is a born again. I don't want to freak him out so I just tell him I'm a greek orthodox who was baptized as a baby. I know this is going to get him going and finally he says I am not going to heaven I need to be saved.

So all you christians out there who aren't christiany enough beware. Apparently you aren't doing enough either and so we will see you in hell!

Anyone who isn't a strict DOGMA religious person is only a hop skip and a jump away from being atheists.

When I wake up in the middle of the night and watch these religious shows begging for money I wonder what fools are up so late and will actually call in and give $ to these con artists and then that guy came in and I see. FOOLS like Gismys who think they have purchased their way into heaven.

Oh, what about the one where they said call and get this "holy water" and whatever you want you will get. One guy got $4700 the very next day, blablabla, and they didn't say what it would cost to get this water, just to call them for it. I wonder how many people call and order that shit? Suckas.

Religion is like cancer. They'll never come up with a cure for either because they are too big of business' to fail. If religion went away what would all those con artists I mean preachers do? It'd be like if basketball didn't exist. WHat would all those giants be doing?

 

[sealybobo]

blah, blah blah

Same old, same old

I use to argue politics all the time and I stopped because I realized if Republicans are religious then you can not argue with them because they believe in things even without having any proof.

For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women’s rights, sexual equality and even global warming.

 

[PratchettFan]

So Santa is real?

So it would seem. I think OSHA should do a suprise inspection on that sweat shop he runs at the North Pole.

OMG I had an adult DOT HEAD Indian come in last week and start telling me about his non denominational church and I'm fascinated that an indian is a christian and so I'm asking him all kinds of questions and I find out he is a born again. I don't want to freak him out so I just tell him I'm a greek orthodox who was baptized as a baby. I know this is going to get him going and finally he says I am not going to heaven I need to be saved.

So all you christians out there who aren't christiany enough beware. Apparently you aren't doing enough either and so we will see you in hell!

Anyone who isn't a strict DOGMA religious person is only a hop skip and a jump away from being atheists.

When I wake up in the middle of the night and watch these religious shows begging for money I wonder what fools are up so late and will actually call in and give $ to these con artists and then that guy came in and I see. FOOLS like Gismys who think they have purchased their way into heaven.

Oh, what about the one where they said call and get this "holy water" and whatever you want you will get. One guy got $4700 the very next day, blablabla, and they didn't say what it would cost to get this water, just to call them for it. I wonder how many people call and order that shit? Suckas.

Religion is like cancer. They'll never come up with a cure for either because they are too big of business' to fail. If religion went away what would all those con artists I mean preachers do? It'd be like if basketball didn't exist. WHat would all those giants be doing?

That is a simplistic view of religion and it ignores the obvious. My point to C Clayton was that people do believe and to ignore that reality makes no sense. So my response to you is much the same, religion does exist and to ignore that reality makes no sense.

Taken purely from biological perspective, whenever you find a behavior within a species the assumption must be that it is a benefit to that species. Otherwise, the behavior would not have survived. Religion and government are two behaviors you find in all human societies - at least those above a small clan and even there it will be around in most cases. So the logical assumption is that religion provides a benefit to that society.

IMO, religion is simply another aspect of government. It is a way for the group to identify with each other and provide cohesiveness. Government is a temporary thing, because it is run by human beings who die. Religion, otoh, is theoretically run by immortal being(s). Therefore, it provides stability to government.

And yes, I know a lot of people have been killed in the name of religion. A lot have been killed in the name of government. A lot of people have been killed to see whose butt will sit on a throne, as if that truly matters to most of the people in the society who will never get a glimpse of that butt. People don't kill because of religion or government. They kill because we are our own predator.

 

[alang1216]

If you don't believe in God, what do you believe in?

Early man lived in a strange and dangerous world he tried to understand and control. He was obviously at the mercy of forces much greater than he. Anything that might bring rain was during a drought was worth trying and if they appeared to work they were repeated and became traditions. Some plants cured his illnesses and their preparation and use became rituals passed down through the generations. With endless time around the campfire stories were mixed with rituals and traditions and religions grew and prospered.

Over the millenia they evolved into those we have today. We personified the forces of nature we tried to influence by giving them names and back stories.

There may be an intelligent power that created the universe but I see no reason to believe that power takes any active part in our births, lives, or deaths. In all my years I've never encountered anything that was unequivically supernatural, no burning bushes, so until I do I believe what you see is what you get.

 

[indiajo]

So it would seem. I think OSHA should do a suprise inspection on that sweat shop he runs at the North Pole.

OMG I had an adult DOT HEAD Indian come in last week and start telling me about his non denominational church and I'm fascinated that an indian is a christian and so I'm asking him all kinds of questions and I find out he is a born again. I don't want to freak him out so I just tell him I'm a greek orthodox who was baptized as a baby. I know this is going to get him going and finally he says I am not going to heaven I need to be saved.

So all you christians out there who aren't christiany enough beware. Apparently you aren't doing enough either and so we will see you in hell!

Anyone who isn't a strict DOGMA religious person is only a hop skip and a jump away from being atheists.

When I wake up in the middle of the night and watch these religious shows begging for money I wonder what fools are up so late and will actually call in and give $ to these con artists and then that guy came in and I see. FOOLS like Gismys who think they have purchased their way into heaven.

Oh, what about the one where they said call and get this "holy water" and whatever you want you will get. One guy got $4700 the very next day, blablabla, and they didn't say what it would cost to get this water, just to call them for it. I wonder how many people call and order that shit? Suckas.

Religion is like cancer. They'll never come up with a cure for either because they are too big of business' to fail. If religion went away what would all those con artists I mean preachers do? It'd be like if basketball didn't exist. WHat would all those giants be doing?

That is a simplistic view of religion and it ignores the obvious. My point to C Clayton was that people do believe and to ignore that reality makes no sense. So my response to you is much the same, religion does exist and to ignore that reality makes no sense.

Taken purely from biological perspective, whenever you find a behavior within a species the assumption must be that it is a benefit to that species. Otherwise, the behavior would not have survived. Religion and government are two behaviors you find in all human societies - at least those above a small clan and even there it will be around in most cases. So the logical assumption is that religion provides a benefit to that society.

IMO, religion is simply another aspect of government. It is a way for the group to identify with each other and provide cohesiveness. Government is a temporary thing, because it is run by human beings who die. Religion, otoh, is theoretically run by immortal being(s). Therefore, it provides stability to government.

And yes, I know a lot of people have been killed in the name of religion. A lot have been killed in the name of government. A lot of people have been killed to see whose butt will sit on a throne, as if that truly matters to most of the people in the society who will never get a glimpse of that butt. People don't kill because of religion or government. They kill because we are our own predator.

I agree partially, seeing religion as a kind of evolutionary advantage, building up group cohesion. But the foundation of that is ignorance, which is understandable considering the level of knowledge at certain times.
Only thing is, todays level of knowledge is in general totally contradicting any kind of religion. So what we miss, and what religikons desperatly try to fill whilst losing ground, is another glue for society.
There are, of course, attempts of non religious power hungry manipulators, as there is communism, ecology and a lot of other -isms to install other top to bottom society frames.
But none of them is rational, as it should be for an enlightened humynity.
That's what is troubling me.

 

[GWV5903]

Interesting answers...

Do you believe in Love?

Do you believe their is good and bad?

Do you make decisions that are either good or bad multiply times a day?

Are you tempted?

Why do you choose to do the wrong thing when you know it's wrong?

 

[PratchettFan]

OMG I had an adult DOT HEAD Indian come in last week and start telling me about his non denominational church and I'm fascinated that an indian is a christian and so I'm asking him all kinds of questions and I find out he is a born again. I don't want to freak him out so I just tell him I'm a greek orthodox who was baptized as a baby. I know this is going to get him going and finally he says I am not going to heaven I need to be saved.

So all you christians out there who aren't christiany enough beware. Apparently you aren't doing enough either and so we will see you in hell!

Anyone who isn't a strict DOGMA religious person is only a hop skip and a jump away from being atheists.

When I wake up in the middle of the night and watch these religious shows begging for money I wonder what fools are up so late and will actually call in and give $ to these con artists and then that guy came in and I see. FOOLS like Gismys who think they have purchased their way into heaven.

Oh, what about the one where they said call and get this "holy water" and whatever you want you will get. One guy got $4700 the very next day, blablabla, and they didn't say what it would cost to get this water, just to call them for it. I wonder how many people call and order that shit? Suckas.

Religion is like cancer. They'll never come up with a cure for either because they are too big of business' to fail. If religion went away what would all those con artists I mean preachers do? It'd be like if basketball didn't exist. WHat would all those giants be doing?

That is a simplistic view of religion and it ignores the obvious. My point to C Clayton was that people do believe and to ignore that reality makes no sense. So my response to you is much the same, religion does exist and to ignore that reality makes no sense.

Taken purely from biological perspective, whenever you find a behavior within a species the assumption must be that it is a benefit to that species. Otherwise, the behavior would not have survived. Religion and government are two behaviors you find in all human societies - at least those above a small clan and even there it will be around in most cases. So the logical assumption is that religion provides a benefit to that society.

IMO, religion is simply another aspect of government. It is a way for the group to identify with each other and provide cohesiveness. Government is a temporary thing, because it is run by human beings who die. Religion, otoh, is theoretically run by immortal being(s). Therefore, it provides stability to government.

And yes, I know a lot of people have been killed in the name of religion. A lot have been killed in the name of government. A lot of people have been killed to see whose butt will sit on a throne, as if that truly matters to most of the people in the society who will never get a glimpse of that butt. People don't kill because of religion or government. They kill because we are our own predator.

I agree partially, seeing religion as a kind of evolutionary advantage, building up group cohesion. But the foundation of that is ignorance, which is understandable considering the level of knowledge at certain times.
Only thing is, todays level of knowledge is in general totally contradicting any kind of religion. So what we miss, and what religikons desperatly try to fill whilst losing ground, is another glue for society.
There are, of course, attempts of non religious power hungry manipulators, as there is communism, ecology and a lot of other -isms to install other top to bottom society frames.
But none of them is rational, as it should be for an enlightened humynity.
That's what is troubling me.

I don't think the foundation is ignorance, unless the foundation of all society is ignorance. We are either blessed or cursed, depending upon your perspective, with the ability to anticipate the future. We do not just react to the moment. But we are by the nature of time ignorant of the future. So our tendency is to fill in the blanks. That is a survival trait. We anticipate the lion around that rock by imagining it there and preparing based upon that imagination.

So too with religion. We did not know why lightning struck or winter came, so we filled in the blanks. As our knowledge increased, the gods were replaced with natural understanding. But we are by no means all knowing. There are still far more blanks than there is knowledge. So long as that is the case, we will continue to fill in those blanks.

That is on the individual level. On the group level we need continuity. When the clan leader dies, we need more than just the understanding that someone will be strong enough to step into the empty slot. When the king dies, we need something to justify putting the crown on his son's head. Moving into republican forms of government does not change that basic aspect of the group. We need the continuity. So long as that is a need, there will be an institution to fill that need. Frankly, I think religion does a far superior job in that regard than science ever will.

There is another aspect which I don't think should be ignored. The group's need for infallibility. There has to be something the group can turn to as the ultimate and unquestioned source of authority. When that is religion, then you can question anything the state might do. If you remove religion, or combine it with the state, then the state takes on that role. I think we can point to a lot of recent examples where that has occurred and none of them turned out well. In this way, religion can be a safety valve against oppression by the state.

Of course, religion can be a rallying point for violence and oppression. But that is because humans are violent and oppressive. We shouldn't use the institution as an excuse for our own behavior.

 

[PratchettFan]

Interesting answers...

Do you believe in Love?

Do you believe their is good and bad?

Do you make decisions that are either good or bad multiply times a day?

Are you tempted?

Why do you choose to do the wrong thing when you know it's wrong?

In order:
Yes
No
Yes
Yes
Almost all choices in life do not fall into categories of right and wrong. Most of them are wrong and more wrong. It is never a question of staying clean. It is how much dirt you can avoid.