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well, first of all, it is wrong (and very liberal, it seems) to focus on how many people believe something before considering it may be valid truth...I wouldn't suggest that you are virtually alone, but I'm at least asking you if there's an appreciable size element in the flock that feels the same way?
I can only guess that there would have to be some unrest with those who can't accept the practice of hiding pedophiles, as one example of just one of the pope's errant behaviours.
The point is, the body of the church could be about to choose two different paths, as has happened before. Nothing can be gained by arguing for one of the paths, against the other.The members of the Church are the Body of Christ. As long as we exist, the Church exists. Any organization - by necessity - requires a hierarchy. The hierarchy of the organization - while some may see it as the face of the organization - is never and will never be the organization. The reality of it is the leadership or hierarchy of any organization exists to serve the members. In effect, they are supposed to be servants. The same can and should be said for government or any other voluntary organization.
The reason to go to mass is communion. You can do everything else they do outside of mass. But you can't do that. Whether you realize it or not your attacks on the Church bring everything into question. It's akin to Protestants attacking the Church, it brings all of Christianity into question.huh?
don't get it
In the days of the Inquisition, the clergy decided who was a heretic or criminal and the civil authorities executed punishment (or not).Like in the 1300s! When the supposed Pope was in Avignon. (And there were a couple others in other places.) I am fascinated by how the Catholic Church persists in certain issues for CENTURIES, such as whether the church alone was responsible for dealing with churchmen who turned criminal. That was the issue with the Murder in the Cathedral in 1172 (Thomas a Becket) and may have finally been settled recently in the 2020s with the determination around the world that criminal church pedophiles should be reported and tried by civil authorities.
Thank you for your attempt to answer the questions that need to be answered.There's always been a "battle" between conservationism and liberalism within the Church. Always. Just like there has always been "battle" between conservationism and liberalism outside of the Church. Always. And there always will be a "battle" between conservationism and liberalism. It's healthy. It's natural.
But to answer your question people like the OP are a small minority of the conservatives in the Church. I'm as conservative as they come but they do not represent me. I'm so conservative I won't tolerate other conservatives making conservatives look bad.
Did you even read the OP?The reason to go to mass is communion. You can do everything else they do outside of mass. But you can't do that. Whether you realize it or not your attacks on the Church bring everything into question. It's akin to Protestants attacking the Church, it brings all of Christianity into question.
Before you talk about deviant behavior in the Church. You really should read the John Jay report. Because until you do, you are speaking from a position of ignorance and I don't have the time to correct every one of your erroneous beliefs about that time period when you could just read the damn report and discover it for yourself. Then we could have an intelligent conversation where we aren't wasting each other's time. Does that sound reasonable to you?Is the side that you oppose of any significance or is the deviant behaviour of Catholic priests still being supported?
And if you say you don't believe that, the human smoke rises at Smithfield.You can do every other thing outside the mass that you can do in the mass except for devouring the flesh of Christ and drinking the blood of Christ.
They aren't two different paths per se. They are opposite sides of the same coin. There are no differences of opinions about problems (the coin). Differences are about the solutions (two sides of the coin) to the problems. The beauty of God's world is that we are free to pursue wrong things but since error can't stand eventually we discover the truth. Diversity of thought is critical to that process. It's OK to have different opinions. It's how one goes about discussing the different opinions that matters.The point is, the body of the church could be about to choose two different paths, as has happened before. Nothing can be gained by arguing for one of the paths, against the other.
I haven't the time to read reports that may or may not deal with the perversions of many Catholic priests and the Pope's response (or lack of) to those incidents of pedophilia.Before you talk about deviant behavior in the Church. You really should read the John Jay report. Because until you do, you are speaking from a position of ignorance and I don't have the time to correct every one of your erroneous beliefs about that time period when you could just read the damn report and discover it for yourself. Then we could have an intelligent conversation where we aren't wasting each other's time. Does that sound reasonable to you?
I don't get this... I only in passing brought up the pedophilia problemThat's really the question the OP is putting to us, in that the problem is supported by various popes.
I've already addressed this with this guy. And I doubt you would accept that answer because the answer goes against your bias. But here goes anyway... Dissenting opinions are allowed and encouraged in the Catholic Church. It's how it's done that matters. Pope's can be wrong about things. Their being wrong, doesn't invalidate them. It just means they are wrong about something. The OP doesn't get that because he's been evangelized by far right wing radicals within the Church. He's not going to accept anything unless they are the one's who tell him.That's really the question the OP is putting to us, in that the problem is supported by various popes.
How about this information:I haven't the time to read reports that may or may not deal with the perversions of many Catholic priests and the Pope's response (or lack of) to those incidents of pedophilia.
If you can recommend some reading that can somehow justify it or excuse it, I would at least give it a chance.
It entirely deals with it. That's its purpose.I haven't the time to read reports that may or may not deal with the perversions of many Catholic priests and the Pope's response (or lack of) to those incidents of pedophilia.
If you can recommend some reading that can somehow justify it or excuse it, I would at least give it a chance.
I can perceive no beauty in a god's world unless the pedophilia is roundly condemned and actions are taken to rid the church of it completely.They aren't two different paths per se. They are opposite sides of the same coin. There are no differences of opinions about problems (the coin). Differences are about the solutions (two sides of the coin) to the problems. The beauty of God's world is that we are free to pursue wrong things but since error can't stand eventually we discover the truth. Diversity of thought is critical to that process. It's OK to have different opinions. It's how one goes about discussing the different opinions that matters.
Saying it doesn't make it true. Popes can be wrong. It doesn't make them invalid.key words: supposed to
neither govt or what appears to be the Church (but isn't... namely the Vatican) are serving anyone but themselves these days
There is no apostrophe in the plural word PopesI've already addressed this with this guy. And I doubt you would accept that answer because the answer goes against your bias. But here goes anyway... Dissenting opinions are allowed and encouraged in the Catholic Church. It's how it's done that matters. Pope's can be wrong about things. Their being wrong, doesn't invalidate them. It just means they are wrong about something. The OP doesn't get that because he's been evangelized by far right wing radicals within the Church. He's not going to accept anything unless they are the one's who tell him.
So your case is based on your belief that the church has been taken over by liberals and communists. At least we now know your position!How about this information:
There was no huge pedo scandal in the Catholic Church (now known as Vatican sect) until Vatican II. I have been telling people until I'm blue in the face that the Vatican has been highjacked by liberals/Communists... etc.. There is no other explanation, to speak of, for all the pedo cases the "Church" has had (but the Church is no longer in the Vatican) since 1958, getting worse every year, I am sure..
You should talk to a mod. OP's are subject to questions of motive and bias. It comes with the territory.Thank you for your attempt to answer the questions that need to be answered.
I'll register your opinion with some caution, on account of it being a personal attack against the OP. Not to suggest that would disqualify your opinion completely.
