I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and civil unions.

actsnoblemartin

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I believe homosexuality is wrong based on what the bible says. I think gay marriage and civil unions are unneccesary because the problems gays are facing with not being able to see each other in the hospital is caused by h.i.p.p.a., and could be fixed. Also, they dont need marriage or a union, to be able to retire, leave inheritence, or anything else.

I dont think homosexuals deserve special treatment, marriage is already on the rocks, and by changing the definition of marriage, you put one more nail in its coffin.
If we dont save marriage, for the sake of kids, we are doomed.
 

Truthmatters

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I think no one should be able to get a marriage from their gov.

They need to go to church to get that.

The gov should do civil unions for who ever wants to enter them for whatever reason.

It is not my business what others do with consenting adults where no one is harmed.

NO ones religion should be allowed to dictate American law.
 
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actsnoblemartin

actsnoblemartin

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I respect your opinion, but I ask you this, if gay marriage happens, and most americans dont want it, is this forced?

Perhaps civil unions are a good comprimise, I dont want either side dictating american policy.

Kids should not be forced to learn that homosexuality is acceptable, their parents, and later on the kids, should make that decision himself

Where am i wrong here lol :)

I enjoy chatting with you truthmatters, I really think you care about the truth, and i respect that.

I think no one should be able to get a marriage from their gov.

They need to go to church to get that.

The gov should do civil unions for who ever wants to enter them for whatever reason.

It is not my business what others do with consenting adults where no one is harmed.

NO ones religion should be allowed to dictate American law.
 

Truthmatters

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My Son knew about as much as any five year old can know about the gay lifestyle.

My best friends were a gay couple acrossed the street from us.

They were like his extra uncles and now at 19 we still go and visit them and he has agreat time.

My son is as straight as a young man can get.

They dont catch gay.

Families have gay members and it does not hurt the kids.

I thank you for the compliments my friend and it is VERY refreshing to talk and differ without the venom.
 
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actsnoblemartin

actsnoblemartin

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you are most kind. No need for venom, you are a nice person. I dont think gay is a virus that is caught.

with all due respect, I would like a study or two if you dont mind, because frankly, I have no idea if being raised by gay parents is great, bad, or no difference.

I am not opposed to being wrong, cause if i claimed to be right, there would be no room for healthy debate and discouse :)
 

Truthmatters

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I wouldnt appose a study.

I think it would help people see that it is harmless.

BTW I asked both of the guys in this couple how and when they nknew they were gay.

They both had very simular answers.

About the time all kids start having crushes they realised that they would have a crush on a guy.

They both felt it was a inbor thing.

They both were troubled as young men that it would turn the world against them if they were open about it.

The one friend said "if it was a choice NO ONE would chose it".

They are fine people ad I really enjoy them.

Decent ,honest ,funny, kind just really great guys.

I think having my son arround was great fun for them and they never did anything off color.

They just played with him and talked to him about their many animals.

It was a great lesson for him.

In JR high one of his friends at school came out as gay and he defended him.

I was very proud of my son for NOT abandoning a friend who was facing a very hateful world.

He stood by and told the taunters to grow up and realise people are different and if they didnt want to date him why were they worried about it.
 
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actsnoblemartin

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I agree with you that the world is hateful, and gays should be defended, I just think, that if somebody chooses to believe homosexuality is wrong, they should not be treated as if they are hateful bigots.

Their are two kinds of people against homosexuality.

1. those who hate gays

2. those who do not hate gays, but simply oppose homosexuality

with all due respect my friend, I think we should make a distinction.

Now, I think great comprimise is possible on this issue.

You could have the most fervert gay activist, and the most fervert religious person opposed to homosexuality, and still find a way, that gays, can visit each other in the hospital, have inheritence, and fight against hate and discrimination, while still respecting the beliefs of those who oppose homosexuality, but are decent people too.

Gays are not good or bad, they are human beings, for which I and in my opinion, everyone else has no right to judge, thats gods job, we have a right to opinion, and if someone asks for your opinion or mine, then we have the right to say what we believe.

but its not a war... and it should never be...

comprimise gets things done
 
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actsnoblemartin

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im glad youre son was such a fine, upstanding citizen.

If a few good men, dont speak up against evil, then it will triumph, and let me be clear, i cant begin to understand what its like to be gay, and frankly, i dont think its impossible for gays to be friends with believe who disagree with either their choice, or how they were born, i dont know which, but i hope you get my point.

we can agree to disagree and still go out for a bite to eat or hang out with each other.
 

Truthmatters

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I agree,you should be allowed to believe what you want.

I do think any two people who wish to should be allowed to enter a civil union for whatever reason they wish.

Two divorced straight women who want a civil union to pool their lives together for the purpose of raising kids and protecting their futures.

A man and a woman who are friends and want to do the same but never plan on having sex.

Two people should be able to tie themselfs together financially for any reason they want.

Thus Civil Unions.
 

maineman

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I respect your opinion, but I ask you this, if gay marriage happens, and most americans dont want it, is this forced?

I ask YOU this: do you think that most white Americans south of the Mason-Dixon Line wanted their children to attend school with black children?

I agree with TM on this: government should only be involved in issuing licences for civil contracts...and their contract should have no force on churches...and churches should only be involved in holy matrimony, and their ceremonies should have no force on government.

Binding themselves in civil union to enjoy all the legal benefits now granted only to married couples is the RIGHT of gays and lesbians just like attending the "good" schools with all the other (white) children in their neighborhood was the RIGHT of black children in 1954 (and today).
 
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actsnoblemartin

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You make a compelling argument, for not only why civil unions should be allowed, but why they could actually be a good idea.

I must admit, ive been back and forth on this whole issue, but u you make a really excellent point, so i shall concede the argument on civil unions.

I agree,you should be allowed to believe what you want.

I do think any two people who wish to should be allowed to enter a civil union for whatever reason they wish.

Two divorced straight women who want a civil union to pool their lives together for the purpose of raising kids and protecting their futures.

A man and a woman who are friends and want to do the same but never plan on having sex.

Two people should be able to tie themselfs together financially for any reason they want.

Thus Civil Unions.
 

Toro

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I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever that gay people doing the same thing as everyone else harms society.

Gays having sex does not harm me. Gays in civil unions does not harm me. Gays in marriage does not harm me.

People are opposed to homosexuality for religious reasons and because they project it on themselves.

But since religious people think its okay to get rich, even though the bible says a rich man has as much chance getting into the kingdom of heaven as a camel passing through an eye of the needle, the churches should also come around and see that discrimination against gay people harms society.
 

hjmick

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I believe homosexuality is wrong based on what the bible says.
Should homosexuals be put to death? The Bible says the should:

Leviticus 20:13: If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

How does this apply to lesbians? There is no mention of lesbians in the Bible so lesbianism must be okay, right?

Leviticus 20:9: If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

Do you believe this?

20:10: If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

What about that one?

Here's a goodie:

Deuteronomy 22:20-1: If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

Shall we start stoning unmarried non-virgins? The Bible says we should.

Exodus 35:2: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Watch out, your favorite Target cashier is marked for death.

Seems we ended slavery for no good reason, the Bible says it's okeedokee:

Leviticus 25:44-45: Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

Exodus 21:20-21: If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

1 Peter 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.


Let us not forget about the subjugation of women:

Ephesians 5:22-24: Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Why is incest allowed in the Bible with no clear punishment?

Just because it's in the Bible doesn't make it right. Just because it's in the Bible doesn't make it good.
 

Kagom

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Being gay, I'm obviously for gay marriage and gay adoption. I'd be happy with civil unions even. I just would like to get the same benefits (and bullshit) regular heterosexual couples can get. As for adoption, I want to have kids eventually. I'd prefer to get a surrogate mother if I can afford to.

As for using the Bible to justify things, it's sad. If that's the only reason you have, then whatever, that's just how you do things. I have more respect for people who try to justify things without it.
 
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actsnoblemartin

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im fine with that.

Truth be told, I was never completely opposed to civil unions. Rights are fine, i have no problem with, just tolerate those who believe its a sin, as long as they bother you.

I ask YOU this: do you think that most white Americans south of the Mason-Dixon Line wanted their children to attend school with black children?

I agree with TM on this: government should only be involved in issuing licences for civil contracts...and their contract should have no force on churches...and churches should only be involved in holy matrimony, and their ceremonies should have no force on government.

Binding themselves in civil union to enjoy all the legal benefits now granted only to married couples is the RIGHT of gays and lesbians just like attending the "good" schools with all the other (white) children in their neighborhood was the RIGHT of black children in 1954 (and today).
 
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actsnoblemartin

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The truth is im very conflicted. part of me, supports gay rights, and has no problem with gays, and the other says, how can god be wrong?.

Its a true confliction. Im not really completely against homosexuality. But ever had friends on both sides of an issue, its tough


Being gay, I'm obviously for gay marriage and gay adoption. I'd be happy with civil unions even. I just would like to get the same benefits (and bullshit) regular heterosexual couples can get. As for adoption, I want to have kids eventually. I'd prefer to get a surrogate mother if I can afford to.

As for using the Bible to justify things, it's sad. If that's the only reason you have, then whatever, that's just how you do things. I have more respect for people who try to justify things without it.
 

Shogun

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"but I ask you this, if gay marriage happens, and most americans dont want it, is this forced?"


whats up actsnoblemartin.. I just wanted to ask the same question back at you:

It INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE happens and most americans dont want it.. was that forced too? People used the bible to claim that such was ALSO a travesty in the eyes of god. We as a nation survived.


as have many, MANY other cultures including a few you might be suprised to learn about..

The Beautiful Way

The ever-so-slightly hidden history of Japan's gay samurai
Nighttime. We see a yukata-clad figure slip into a dark room, its floor covered with sleeping bodies. Picking his way over the futons, he heads for one already occupied and, without hesitating, slides under the covers. But as he starts to get comfortable, his quarry turns suddenly and holds a dagger to his throat, asking: "Cry out? Or shall I do it for you?"
"I don't want to die without making love to you," he replies.

Nothing unusual so far, save for the fact that the object of his affections isn't a woman, but an androgynous young man.

The scene is from Nagisa Oshima's 1999 film Gohatto, known overseas by the title Taboo. A staid, marginally engaging samurai drama, it is however notable for focusing on a subject left quietly untouched by other such movies: the samurai tradition of male love.

read on at
http://www.seekjapan.jp/article-1/812/The+Beautiful+Way







http://www.japanator.com/samurai-do-exist-here’s-the-proof
 

Vintij

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The truth is im very conflicted. part of me, supports gay rights, and has no problem with gays, and the other says, how can god be wrong?.

Its a true confliction. Im not really completely against homosexuality. But ever had friends on both sides of an issue, its tough

There is no shame being in the middle of this debate without picking sides, the hard part is actually defending your position.

The part of you that supports gays, is that because you have gay friends? And even if you didnt, do you care what other people do with their lives?

The other part of you that says "how can god be wrong" is understandable because you were brought up into a religious family, but I will assume your of age to know that everything in the bible is not true. Therefore most of the bible literally can not be the "word" of god. Ofcourse if you believe that then thats what you choose to believe but at this age, at least you can choose what to buy into.

If it says in genesis that "homosexuality" is a sin and must be treated as such, well then that means you actually practice the old testamen. Which not many people do, unless your muslim.

The problem with this country is, the hypocracy with choosing which part of the bible to trust, and which part to throw away. If your going to be against homosexuality like the bible says, well then your going to have to be for stoning your children to death when they act up, giving your wife up to someone who raped her, selling slaves for wifes, taking orders to kill another man from god.

All of these things happend in your king james version of the bible, the same version which houses your beliefs in homosexuality, or "gods" beliefs.

Growing into religion is one thing, it keeps kids doing morally right things. Being an adult in a religion, is a choice to believe in the bible. If you havent read the entire bible, and believe what it all says, whats the point of having an opinion on something thats in the bible, that part of you does not even care about.

So you see, god is not wrong, god cant be wrong.....its the bible that is telling you what to do, not god. And if you believe that god IS literally in the bible, well you have problems, because the bible is not very omnipotent and loving.
 

mattskramer

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you are most kind. No need for venom, you are a nice person. I dont think gay is a virus that is caught.

with all due respect, I would like a study or two if you dont mind, because frankly, I have no idea if being raised by gay parents is great, bad, or no difference.

I am not opposed to being wrong, cause if i claimed to be right, there would be no room for healthy debate and discouse :)
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349#SEC6

In all its work, the AAP is committed to calling attention to the inextricable link between the health and well-being of all children, the support and encouragement of all parents, and the protection of strong family relationships. This analysis was prepared to bring to light the legal, financial, and psychosocial ramifications of recent and proposed public-policy initiatives affecting same-gender parents and their children.

Civil marriage is a legal status that promotes healthy families by conferring a powerful set of rights, benefits, and protections that cannot be obtained by other means. Civil marriage can help foster financial and legal security, psychosocial stability, and an augmented sense of societal acceptance and support. Legal recognition of a spouse can increase the ability of adult couples to provide and care for one another and fosters a nurturing and secure environment for their children. Children who are raised by civilly married parents benefit from the legal status granted to their parents.

Gay and lesbian people have been raising children for many years and will continue to do so in the future; the issue is whether these children will be raised by parents who have the rights, benefits, and protections of civil marriage. Same-gender couples are denied the right to civil marriage in every state except Massachusetts and the right to civil union except in Connecticut and Vermont. The federal government and other state governments do not recognize those civil marriages and civil unions.

There is ample evidence to show that children raised by same-gender parents fare as well as those raised by heterosexual parents. More than 25 years of research have documented that there is no relationship between parents' sexual orientation and any measure of a child's emotional, psychosocial, and behavioral adjustment. These data have demonstrated no risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with 1 or more gay parents. Conscientious and nurturing adults, whether they are men or women, heterosexual or homosexual, can be excellent parents. The rights, benefits, and protections of civil marriage can further strengthen these families.
 

RetiredGySgt

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I believe homosexuality is wrong based on what the bible says. I think gay marriage and civil unions are unneccesary because the problems gays are facing with not being able to see each other in the hospital is caused by h.i.p.p.a., and could be fixed. Also, they dont need marriage or a union, to be able to retire, leave inheritence, or anything else.

I dont think homosexuals deserve special treatment, marriage is already on the rocks, and by changing the definition of marriage, you put one more nail in its coffin.
If we dont save marriage, for the sake of kids, we are doomed.
It is not your buisness what consenting adults do as long as it is not illegal. Civil Unions are fine, I do not agree that Marriage should be a term applied to same sex couples.

The Bible is clear, the new testament has Jesus telling us to not JUDGE others in this manner. You don't like them, don't associate with them. Oppose laws that give them special privaleges ( I disagree with that also) but do NOT try and claim they should not be provided the same rights and safeguards everyone else is.
 

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