I ain't no Birther, but what's up with this?

[Care4all]

Berg's smackdown:

BERG v OBAMA (Original Case) - PRECEDENTIAL OPINION -Transport Room - Fullscreen

Why bother? it won't be read?

 

[Emma]

Berg's smackdown:

BERG v OBAMA (Original Case) - PRECEDENTIAL OPINION -Transport Room - Fullscreen

Why bother? it won't be read?

Too bad. It's quite entertaining

 

[Liability]

Berg's smackdown:

BERG v OBAMA (Original Case) - PRECEDENTIAL OPINION -Transport Room - Fullscreen

Why bother? it won't be read?

I read it.

It was very much on the smackdown side, too.

I'm not a "birther," either (although I readily admit I am closer to being a "birther" than many folks who deride that belief with the dismissive term).

But the smackdown was NOT on the merits of whether President Obama WAS definitively born outside of the USA or not.

The smackdown was on the manner in which the legal "case" was "presented."

A true embarrassment.

 

[Emma]

But the smackdown was NOT on the merits of whether President Obama WAS definitively born outside of the USA or not.

Never said it was.


I suspect the judiciary is getting a bit fed up with these nutcases.

DOC 21 - Rivernider (and Lincoln) v US Bank Natl Assn, ORDER to SHOW CAUSE Re Fraudulent Filing

Poor Orly.

 

[Liability]

But the smackdown was NOT on the merits of whether President Obama WAS definitively born outside of the USA or not.

Never said it was.


I suspect the judiciary is getting a bit fed up with these nutcases.

DOC 21 - Rivernider (and Lincoln) v US Bank Natl Assn, ORDER to SHOW CAUSE Re Fraudulent Filing

Poor Orly.

I don't believe I ever suggested that YOU had said the "smackdown" was on the merits ofthe main issue. I just wanted to clarify that I was not making that claim.

It WAS a smackdown, imho. But it was a smackdown premised on the highly questionable professionalism of the legal presentation.

That being said, it is abundantly clear to me that the whole topic is never going to get any actual legal challenge worthy of the name. It is, effectively, therefore, a dead-letter issue.

 

[Care4all]

Good avoid. His birth certificate is a technicality. His father and step-father were both foreign citizens (that would make him a dual-citizen, unqualified).

No, by law, this is NOT correct...just as with the USA...there are rules and regs for anyone to claim 2 citizen-ships, obama would have had to gone through measures and requirements to get this citizenship of either of his fathers....please look the law up, your assumption is not correct.

Did he, Obama or Barry sorento or what ever his name was when he attended college, as an adult, claim to be a foreign citizen and sign legal documents as an adult, stating just that? I don't care if his excuse was a grant or scholarship payment. Did he, as an adult, claim to be a foreign citizen? He will not release the documents that prove otherwise.

The answer to your question, is NO, HE DID NOT. And you REALLY NEED to just google these things on YOUR OWN to research whether they are true or not, don;t you think? That's what I do....

SEE BELOW LINK:
snopes.com: Obama's Occidental College Records / Meet the Soetoros


NOTHING BUT LIES, LIES AND LIES, yet you continue to repeat them, gossip, pass on these lies....the works of the Deceiver ? Why?

If you don't know these things, you cannot prove that this man is a US citizen, you, like the rest of us can only guess 'what' he really is. The muslims believe that people should be judged on their merits and deeds above their words, so far, it is not looking to good for his integrity.

If you have some proof of 'his integrity' or his 'honesty', or 'his love for this country', please provide the evidence. I am desperately 'hoping' this man that won the office of president cares about the citizens and the country. Not much to go on, so far.


Sadly, it is your integrity in question, because you failed to do due diligence, and didn't even bother to look up and see if what your master birthers tell you, is true, in both cases that you mentioned above.

As for who is perpetuating the crime, that would be, none other, than the current president. By his lack of 'transparency', he is weakening the integrity of the office of the president of the USA. By his lack of 'transparency', he is showing himself to be without honor and integrity as the commander and chief of our military. He is not a leader, he is a lecturer, that is what he does. His actions are silent (except for when it comes to hurting the USA or its citizens). I pray for him and his family and our country that he will grow a set and become the leader we need. I do have 'hope'.

All I can say is that is just a bunch of partisan dribble....and meaninlgess, faux, religious rhetoric about your prayers for him imo, because you did not bother to keep your mouth shut until you researched those lies that you spewed above....just think about it, you chose to harm him, by gossiping and bearing false witness, so to say....so i seriously do have doubt on your prayers for him and his family Logic.....so just more dribble.

I have no reason to support Obama blindly, I did not vote for him. When I first heard these claims, the dozen or so, from the Birthers, I spent days if not weeks, researching them all and researching our laws regarding it, because I THOUGHT the Birthers had some valid questions....until....through research, I found that ALL that they were claiming was nothing but hot air, and they did not have one legitimate piece of evidence that showed obama couldn't have been born in Hawaii.

NOw, how about answering those questions of mine that you say i put up to avoid your questions?

You keep calling me a liar when I am asking questions. You have no proof that Obama did not declare himself as a foreign citizen to attend college (any one of them). You have a snopes blog that states 'a group' was not 'real' when it claimed that. It does not show the records and his records are unavailable for public review (by order of the transparent man, himself).

logi, you can accuse any human being on this earth of as far fetched things as you wish, does that alone make the CLAIM of such things legitimate to you? Does that make these far fetched claims any less than a lie or fabricated accusations made up from thin air? We as citizens should NOT have to defend ourselves for every lie made up about us should we?

The "Birthers" claim as their evidence supporting their accusations, that Obama's records of his college days at occidental were released and that they show that he received Foreign Aid from a Group that does not even give foreign aid to undergraduates, but only Graduates at the university, which Obama was an undergraduate when he was at Occidental, so NOT even eligible to receive the foreign aid the birthers have accused him receiving, as proof of him being a foreigner?

You seem to think that because Obama has not released his college records, it gives you and the groups you support, to just make up things about him? It gives you no justification to just LIE logi? Make up, what far fetched stories and lies you like to support your theory that he is a foreigner and not a natural born citizen, is NOT being truthful or honest, but downright pretty skummy, don't you think? Where is your integrity?

As I said before, don't you THINK that you should substantiate your accusations, with proof that HE IS LYING before you make up a bunch of shit, accuse him of it, and then charge that he is not being open and honest becasue he doesn;t open up his records to prove that your made up, far fetched accusation with no proof to back it up, is not true for goodness sakes.

Why, can YOU not see this is "not right and just"?

To answer your questions, my family had announcements put in the local paper for children born out of state. Some just listed sex and weight, and grandparents, while others listed where the child was born. Hawaii had a policy where if a child was born out of country, it could get a Hawaiin birth certificate, up to a certain time period (I believe it was under a month). "Theoretically", his family could have a 'legal' birth certificate for the child even if he was born in another country. That has never been my focus.

How about FACTS. The Announcement of Obama's birth was put in 2 Honolulu newspapers by the Dept of Health Bureau of vital Statistics, AS THE HEADER OF THE SECTION IN THE NEWS PAPER STATES, in plain view. Not by his grandparents, not by his parents, NOT by anyone other than the Hawaii Dept of Health, AS THE AD STATES. Why is it that YOU have not googled this to SEE the actual ad in the newspapers that it ran in and the Header of this section STATING it was the Bureau of Health that put out these statistics?

THIS is a perfect example of what I am upset with you about....all this speculation and yes, lies being spouted, without YOU DOING THE RESEARCH to support those accusations, while demanding that Obama defend the supportless accusations?

Hawaii has NO SUCH LAW that a baby born in another state or country after 1 month can get a hawaiian birth certificate willy nilly.....

ALL BULL CRAP and yes again, lies.

IF YOU RESEARCHED IT, you would find that there is no such thing....or clause for someone like Obama....WHOSE BIRTH WAS REGISTERED within 4 DAYS OF BEING BORN.


HERE ARE THE RULES DEAR: Hawai‘i State Department of Health


Again, that is not where my UNANSWERED questions are. You have not answered them and are 'spouting' kool aid answers for which you cannot prove. That, is my entire point, that the records that could prove, one way or another, have been sealed, to prevent anyone from knowing. If actions are all we have to go on, his are lacking.

how were your legitimate questions NOT ANSWERED?

If you don't know these things, you cannot prove that this man is a US citizen, you, like the rest of us can only guess 'what' he really is. The muslims believe that people should be judged on their merits and deeds above their words, so far, it is not looking to good for his integrity.

Prove what things? PROVE WHAT? Dont' know what things? I've answered THEM ALL, you either threw out lies or bogus accusations with no support they are even feasible, there is nothing to prove to you if your accusations are not even in the realm of being possible??? and they are not possible.

If you have some proof of 'his integrity' or his 'honesty', or 'his love for this country', please provide the evidence. I am desperately 'hoping' this man that won the office of president cares about the citizens and the country. Not much to go on, so far.

How does one prove to someone who has no integrity themselves, that they themselves have integrity and why should they have to prove something like this to them now? Because it is "them" that is making up the false accusations in the first place?

Again, I am not stating 'facts'. I am asking questions, and you, like the rest of the people that are blindly protecting him, will not answer the questions and refuse to admit that there are documents that could prove it, either way. If you do not 'know' that he claimed to be a citizen of a foreign country to attend some fairly expensive colleges (those tuitions were never explained either for a 'middle' class kid), how can you say that he didn't? He attended more than one college, did he claim foreign citizenship (as an adult and sign the paperwork stating it), to get into those colleges?

Do you have any proof AT ALL that Obama was not born in Hawaii? Do you have any proof AT ALL that he accepted foreign aid to go to college?

Do you have any PROOF AT ALL that if a child born in the usa, with one American parent and one foreign born parent can not receive foreign aid from his father's country and STILL BE A CITIZEN of this one?

Do you have any proof AT ALL to support these accusations?

i KNOW Obama IS A CITIZEN because the COLB, the official State documents lists honolulu, hawaii as his state of birth and there is NO LAW on the hawaii books that would allow his mother to file a late birth for him and still have the FILED REGISTRATION DATE of 4 days after Obama's birth.

I also KNOW via Hawaiin law, that there is NO WAY obama could be born in a foreign country and be given a hawaiian birth certificate, because the LAW only allows birth certificates to be amended by those who were born in hawaii and those born in a foreign country THAT WERE ADOPTED.

HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN Hawai‘i State Department of Health

Please feel free to call me a liar again, it shows that you, as a person, are unwilling to be reflective about the absence of proof, and instead believe a politician that has proven 'not to let the truth get in the way of a good story' (See his speeches on health care and being transparent). Do you care to answer my questions, yet?

I DISAGREE, you are lying, because YOU have no support for your own accusations, either lying or WILLFULLY STAYING IGNORANT, because the PROOF is right before your eyes, if you would only open them to the research and what the facts say....

what you say, is merely fabricated stuff and impossible to even occur, BECAUSE OF THE LAWS in Hawaii regarding this...

I don't mean to be so harsh Logical....it is more out of frustration and all the time I have spent researching all of these far fetched accusations myself, only to find it is clear as day once researched, that what is being accused, isn't even in the realm of possibilities....

Care

Here are the rules:

Who is Eligible to Apply for an Amended Certificate of Birth?

As provided by law (HRS §§338-17.7, 338-20.5), the following persons may apply for an amended certificate of birth:

* A person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and

1. has become legally adopted, or
2. has undergone a sex change operation, or
3. a legal determination of the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file has been made, or
4. previously recorded information in relation to the person’s surname and/or the father’s personal particulars has been altered pursuant to law.

* A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii.

How to Apply for an Amended Certificate of Birth

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and has become legally adopted

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of a certified copy of a final adoption decree or an abstract of the decree, and after payment of any fees.

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and has undergone a sex change operation:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of an affidavit of a physician that the physician has examined the individual and determined that the individual has had a sex change operation and the sex designation on the individual’s birth certificate is no longer correct, subject to further investigation and submission of additional information if deemed necessary, and payment of fees.

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and a legal determination of the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file has been made:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of a final order, judgment, or decree of a court of competent jurisdiction that determined the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file and the person, and payment of any fees.

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and previously recorded information in relation to the person’s surname and/or the father’s personal particulars has been altered pursuant to law:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of an affidavit of paternity, a court order establishing paternity, or a certificate of marriage establishing the marriage of the natural parents to each other, and payment of any fees.

For a person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of a certified copy of the adoption decree or the certificate of adoption, and payment of fees.

Note: Any additional application forms that may be required will be provided by the Department of Health after receipt of the necessary documents in support of the establishment of an amended certificate of birth.

And here is who can apply for a late registration of birth...which is already not applicable to Obama because his birth WAS REGISTERED ON AUGUST 8, 1961, 4 days after his birth.

Who is Eligible to Apply for Late Registration?

As provided by law (HRS §§338-15, 338-29.5), the following persons may apply for late registration:

* Any person born in Hawaii who is one year old or older and whose birth has not been previously registered in Hawaii, or that person’s parent, guardian, next of kin, or older person acting for that person and having knowledge of the facts of birth may request the registration of a late certificate of birth, except that an application will not be accepted for a deceased person.
* Registration of a late certificate of death, marriage, or divorce may be requested by the person in charge of the disposition of the body, marriage officiant or performer, or court clerk, respectively.

 

[Emma]

And here is who can apply for a late registration of birth...which is already not applicable to Obama because his birth WAS REGISTERED ON AUGUST 8, 1961, 4 days after his birth.

He was born at 7:24 pm on a Friday. Meaning it was registered on the second business day after his birth.

Also, just a couple of points related to what you posted above, that the birthers seem to ignore:

Here are the rules:

Who is Eligible to Apply for an Amended Certificate of Birth?

As provided by law (HRS §§338-17.7, 338-20.5), the following persons may apply for an amended certificate of birth:

Hawaiian statute §338-20.5 [Adoption; foreign born persons] became law in 1979.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0020_0005.htm

Hawaiian statute §338-17.7 [Establishment of new certificates of birth, when. (a) The department of health shall establish, in the following circumstances, a new certificate of birth for a person born in this State who already has a birth certificate filed with the department and who is referred to below as the “birth registrant”:] became law in 1973.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0007.htm

However, the statute in effect when he was born states:

§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates.

(a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0016.htm

His certificate is NOT marked "late" or "altered", therefore it wasn't amended. The information on the COLB is what was contained on the original birth certificate.

 

[DiveCon]

i dont understand WHY you guys are digging up these facts for people that will only reject them

 

[logical4u]

All I can say is that is just a bunch of partisan dribble....and meaninlgess, faux, religious rhetoric about your prayers for him imo, because you did not bother to keep your mouth shut until you researched those lies that you spewed above....just think about it, you chose to harm him, by gossiping and bearing false witness, so to say....so i seriously do have doubt on your prayers for him and his family Logic.....so just more dribble.

I have no reason to support Obama blindly, I did not vote for him. When I first heard these claims, the dozen or so, from the Birthers, I spent days if not weeks, researching them all and researching our laws regarding it, because I THOUGHT the Birthers had some valid questions....until....through research, I found that ALL that they were claiming was nothing but hot air, and they did not have one legitimate piece of evidence that showed obama couldn't have been born in Hawaii.

NOw, how about answering those questions of mine that you say i put up to avoid your questions?

You keep calling me a liar when I am asking questions. You have no proof that Obama did not declare himself as a foreign citizen to attend college (any one of them). You have a snopes blog that states 'a group' was not 'real' when it claimed that. It does not show the records and his records are unavailable for public review (by order of the transparent man, himself).

logi, you can accuse any human being on this earth of as far fetched things as you wish, does that alone make the CLAIM of such things legitimate to you? Does that make these far fetched claims any less than a lie or fabricated accusations made up from thin air? We as citizens should NOT have to defend ourselves for every lie made up about us should we?

The "Birthers" claim as their evidence supporting their accusations, that Obama's records of his college days at occidental were released and that they show that he received Foreign Aid from a Group that does not even give foreign aid to undergraduates, but only Graduates at the university, which Obama was an undergraduate when he was at Occidental, so NOT even eligible to receive the foreign aid the birthers have accused him receiving, as proof of him being a foreigner?

You seem to think that because Obama has not released his college records, it gives you and the groups you support, to just make up things about him? It gives you no justification to just LIE logi? Make up, what far fetched stories and lies you like to support your theory that he is a foreigner and not a natural born citizen, is NOT being truthful or honest, but downright pretty skummy, don't you think? Where is your integrity?

As I said before, don't you THINK that you should substantiate your accusations, with proof that HE IS LYING before you make up a bunch of shit, accuse him of it, and then charge that he is not being open and honest becasue he doesn;t open up his records to prove that your made up, far fetched accusation with no proof to back it up, is not true for goodness sakes.

Why, can YOU not see this is "not right and just"?

To answer your questions, my family had announcements put in the local paper for children born out of state. Some just listed sex and weight, and grandparents, while others listed where the child was born. Hawaii had a policy where if a child was born out of country, it could get a Hawaiin birth certificate, up to a certain time period (I believe it was under a month). "Theoretically", his family could have a 'legal' birth certificate for the child even if he was born in another country. That has never been my focus.

How about FACTS. The Announcement of Obama's birth was put in 2 Honolulu newspapers by the Dept of Health Bureau of vital Statistics, AS THE HEADER OF THE SECTION IN THE NEWS PAPER STATES, in plain view. Not by his grandparents, not by his parents, NOT by anyone other than the Hawaii Dept of Health, AS THE AD STATES. Why is it that YOU have not googled this to SEE the actual ad in the newspapers that it ran in and the Header of this section STATING it was the Bureau of Health that put out these statistics?

THIS is a perfect example of what I am upset with you about....all this speculation and yes, lies being spouted, without YOU DOING THE RESEARCH to support those accusations, while demanding that Obama defend the supportless accusations?

Hawaii has NO SUCH LAW that a baby born in another state or country after 1 month can get a hawaiian birth certificate willy nilly.....

ALL BULL CRAP and yes again, lies.

IF YOU RESEARCHED IT, you would find that there is no such thing....or clause for someone like Obama....WHOSE BIRTH WAS REGISTERED within 4 DAYS OF BEING BORN.


HERE ARE THE RULES DEAR: Hawai‘i State Department of Health


Again, that is not where my UNANSWERED questions are. You have not answered them and are 'spouting' kool aid answers for which you cannot prove. That, is my entire point, that the records that could prove, one way or another, have been sealed, to prevent anyone from knowing. If actions are all we have to go on, his are lacking.

how were your legitimate questions NOT ANSWERED?

If you don't know these things, you cannot prove that this man is a US citizen, you, like the rest of us can only guess 'what' he really is. The muslims believe that people should be judged on their merits and deeds above their words, so far, it is not looking to good for his integrity.

Prove what things? PROVE WHAT? Dont' know what things? I've answered THEM ALL, you either threw out lies or bogus accusations with no support they are even feasible, there is nothing to prove to you if your accusations are not even in the realm of being possible??? and they are not possible.

If you have some proof of 'his integrity' or his 'honesty', or 'his love for this country', please provide the evidence. I am desperately 'hoping' this man that won the office of president cares about the citizens and the country. Not much to go on, so far.

How does one prove to someone who has no integrity themselves, that they themselves have integrity and why should they have to prove something like this to them now? Because it is "them" that is making up the false accusations in the first place?

Again, I am not stating 'facts'. I am asking questions, and you, like the rest of the people that are blindly protecting him, will not answer the questions and refuse to admit that there are documents that could prove it, either way. If you do not 'know' that he claimed to be a citizen of a foreign country to attend some fairly expensive colleges (those tuitions were never explained either for a 'middle' class kid), how can you say that he didn't? He attended more than one college, did he claim foreign citizenship (as an adult and sign the paperwork stating it), to get into those colleges?

Do you have any proof AT ALL that Obama was not born in Hawaii? Do you have any proof AT ALL that he accepted foreign aid to go to college?

Do you have any PROOF AT ALL that if a child born in the usa, with one American parent and one foreign born parent can not receive foreign aid from his father's country and STILL BE A CITIZEN of this one?

Do you have any proof AT ALL to support these accusations?

i KNOW Obama IS A CITIZEN because the COLB, the official State documents lists honolulu, hawaii as his state of birth and there is NO LAW on the hawaii books that would allow his mother to file a late birth for him and still have the FILED REGISTRATION DATE of 4 days after Obama's birth.

I also KNOW via Hawaiin law, that there is NO WAY obama could be born in a foreign country and be given a hawaiian birth certificate, because the LAW only allows birth certificates to be amended by those who were born in hawaii and those born in a foreign country THAT WERE ADOPTED.

HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN Hawai‘i State Department of Health

Please feel free to call me a liar again, it shows that you, as a person, are unwilling to be reflective about the absence of proof, and instead believe a politician that has proven 'not to let the truth get in the way of a good story' (See his speeches on health care and being transparent). Do you care to answer my questions, yet?

I DISAGREE, you are lying, because YOU have no support for your own accusations, either lying or WILLFULLY STAYING IGNORANT, because the PROOF is right before your eyes, if you would only open them to the research and what the facts say....

what you say, is merely fabricated stuff and impossible to even occur, BECAUSE OF THE LAWS in Hawaii regarding this...

I don't mean to be so harsh Logical....it is more out of frustration and all the time I have spent researching all of these far fetched accusations myself, only to find it is clear as day once researched, that what is being accused, isn't even in the realm of possibilities....

Care

Here are the rules:

Who is Eligible to Apply for an Amended Certificate of Birth?

As provided by law (HRS §§338-17.7, 338-20.5), the following persons may apply for an amended certificate of birth:

* A person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and

1. has become legally adopted, or
2. has undergone a sex change operation, or
3. a legal determination of the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file has been made, or
4. previously recorded information in relation to the person’s surname and/or the father’s personal particulars has been altered pursuant to law.

* A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii.

How to Apply for an Amended Certificate of Birth

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and has become legally adopted

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of a certified copy of a final adoption decree or an abstract of the decree, and after payment of any fees.

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and has undergone a sex change operation:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of an affidavit of a physician that the physician has examined the individual and determined that the individual has had a sex change operation and the sex designation on the individual’s birth certificate is no longer correct, subject to further investigation and submission of additional information if deemed necessary, and payment of fees.

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and a legal determination of the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file has been made:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of a final order, judgment, or decree of a court of competent jurisdiction that determined the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file and the person, and payment of any fees.

For a person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and previously recorded information in relation to the person’s surname and/or the father’s personal particulars has been altered pursuant to law:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of an affidavit of paternity, a court order establishing paternity, or a certificate of marriage establishing the marriage of the natural parents to each other, and payment of any fees.

For a person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii:

* An amended birth certificate will be prepared upon receipt of a certified copy of the adoption decree or the certificate of adoption, and payment of fees.

Note: Any additional application forms that may be required will be provided by the Department of Health after receipt of the necessary documents in support of the establishment of an amended certificate of birth.

And here is who can apply for a late registration of birth...which is already not applicable to Obama because his birth WAS REGISTERED ON AUGUST 8, 1961, 4 days after his birth.

Who is Eligible to Apply for Late Registration?

As provided by law (HRS §§338-15, 338-29.5), the following persons may apply for late registration:

* Any person born in Hawaii who is one year old or older and whose birth has not been previously registered in Hawaii, or that person’s parent, guardian, next of kin, or older person acting for that person and having knowledge of the facts of birth may request the registration of a late certificate of birth, except that an application will not be accepted for a deceased person.
* Registration of a late certificate of death, marriage, or divorce may be requested by the person in charge of the disposition of the body, marriage officiant or performer, or court clerk, respectively.

For the fourth, maybe fifth time, the birth certificate is not where my primary QUESTIONS (not accusations) are. My questions are about Obama's early adulthood when he declared himself a citizen (of where, we do not know) to get into college. Did he declare himself to be a foreign citizen to ease financial costs for some very expensive colleges? Did he declare himself to be a US citizen at that time? There is no way to know because 'Mr. Transparency' will not allow those documents to be viewed. If he, the president declared himself to be a foreign citizen as a young adult, and signed paperwork stating that 'declaration', then he would be ineligible. I am amazed that the same people that wanted Bush to find all his paperwork concerning his National Guard service are BLINDLY ignoring what could be an unlawful usurping of this nation. Where are your stones, I mean fortitude?
PS If the 'transparent one' would present the documents that proved him to be eligible, it would be hard to ask any more questions on this subject. Why do you, 'you' think he will not release documents that have been released by other presidents (not all)? Doesn't it make you wonder what the 'transparent one' is HIDING?
Your lack of evidence that he IS a US citizen (or claimed to be a US citizen as a young adult), makes you look as if you are protecting a 'liar'. All you can present are arguements that he is eligible, not any proof. How do you expect to sway people by saying "I looked it up and I am satisfied, I know I have no evidence, but TRUST ME, I know"?

 

[jvn]

Logi -

Your "question" is kind of silly.

Someone, somewhere speculates that the President with the foreign sounding name MUST have lied about his American citizenship in order to get extra financial aid to go to college, and you feel that this is somehow a legitimate issue?

Please.

Tell you what. Find us a member of the Foreign Student's Association at Occidental when the President was there who will testify (under oath, of course) that "Barry and I talked often about all of the financial aid we were getting because we were foreign students..."

Then maybe I would agree that Occidental should release the President's records.

Forcing people or institutions into spending time and money to humor the legal fishing expeditions of cranks doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That's why no judge yet has allowed any of the so called "plaintiffs" in these cases to have discovery.

Others have speculated that Glen Beck raped and killed a girl in 1989. Why won't Beck produce his proof of where he was that year? I mean, his employers no doubt hav documents showing that he as at work, right? If he wasn't a rapist and murderer, why wouldn't he show us that proof?

Get some evidence and get back to us...

 

[Emma]

What cracks me up about Orly and the rest in all these ridiculous lawsuits is that they are demanding Obama provide "proof" (of whatever---if anything---would satisfy them). They seem to forget that the burden of proof is on them, not Obama.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Like I've said many times before..........

McCain was taking heat from the Democrats when he first started running (I think it was Hillary that started it), by talking about him being born in Panama to American parents stationed abroad.

After that was settled? The Republicans decided to use the same tactics on Obama, which is where the birthers got their start.

I'm also wondering why a Russian Jew (who has NO US CITIZENSHIP) is bitching about this anyway? Shit......doesn't she have her own country to go hassle and spew crap in?

 

[DiveCon]

actually, it was started by the clinton machine
at least thats the rumor

 

[Emma]

actually, it was started by the clinton machine
at least thats the rumor

I wouldn't be so sure

 

[logical4u]

Logi -

Your "question" is kind of silly.

Someone, somewhere speculates that the President with the foreign sounding name MUST have lied about his American citizenship in order to get extra financial aid to go to college, and you feel that this is somehow a legitimate issue?

Please.

Tell you what. Find us a member of the Foreign Student's Association at Occidental when the President was there who will testify (under oath, of course) that "Barry and I talked often about all of the financial aid we were getting because we were foreign students..."

Then maybe I would agree that Occidental should release the President's records.

Forcing people or institutions into spending time and money to humor the legal fishing expeditions of cranks doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That's why no judge yet has allowed any of the so called "plaintiffs" in these cases to have discovery.

Others have speculated that Glen Beck raped and killed a girl in 1989. Why won't Beck produce his proof of where he was that year? I mean, his employers no doubt hav documents showing that he as at work, right? If he wasn't a rapist and murderer, why wouldn't he show us that proof?

Get some evidence and get back to us...

Is Beck the 'leader of the free world'?
Is he the 'commander and chief' that must command the respect of his military command?
Is Beck going around the world, taking SUBMISSIVE poses in front of other national leaders?
Is Beck acting like he is ashamed of this country and everything it represents?
Did Beck go into China and complement 'them' on their civilization, while NEVER praising the 'people' of the USA?
Is Beck trying to subvert the Bill of Rights by forcing an unconstitutional health care bill on taxpayers (over 50% that do not want it)?
Is Beck trying to 'cap n trade' our energy to a point where people can no longer afford to cool/heat their homes?
Is Beck pushing for immigration (illegal) reform to be passed next year?
Is Beck supporting 'green' causes over human life (valley in CA where farmers lose, fish win)?
Is Beck bringing terrorists into the US and giving them a trial that "citizens" must pay for, that is not a right for foreign army members?
Is he bringing terrorists into middle America, promising (we have seen how well those promises have worked) citizen safety?

Just a few things that this president is doing that makes me question: EVERY SINGLE THING ABOUT HIM. I have requested any evidence that would prove that he loves this country, its culture(s) and its people, any sign that he wants this country to remain strong and independent, any evidence that the 'plans' he proposes will not destroy this country ('cause a lot of 'em have been tried elsewhere and failed, see: Venuzuela, Cuba, Zimbawe). Please, feel free to add you examples to the list of ZERO.

If Glen Beck committed a crime, he will pay, hopefully in this life, if not, he will in the next. He cannot influence my life, unless, I choose to let him. That other one, is trying to subjugate me, my family and my country. Maybe you will walk through fire for the false god, not me.

 

[Care4all]

You keep calling me a liar when I am asking questions. You have no proof that Obama did not declare himself as a foreign citizen to attend college (any one of them). You have a snopes blog that states 'a group' was not 'real' when it claimed that. It does not show the records and his records are unavailable for public review (by order of the transparent man, himself).

logi, you can accuse any human being on this earth of as far fetched things as you wish, does that alone make the CLAIM of such things legitimate to you? Does that make these far fetched claims any less than a lie or fabricated accusations made up from thin air? We as citizens should NOT have to defend ourselves for every lie made up about us should we?

The "Birthers" claim as their evidence supporting their accusations, that Obama's records of his college days at occidental were released and that they show that he received Foreign Aid from a Group that does not even give foreign aid to undergraduates, but only Graduates at the university, which Obama was an undergraduate when he was at Occidental, so NOT even eligible to receive the foreign aid the birthers have accused him receiving, as proof of him being a foreigner?

You seem to think that because Obama has not released his college records, it gives you and the groups you support, to just make up things about him? It gives you no justification to just LIE logi? Make up, what far fetched stories and lies you like to support your theory that he is a foreigner and not a natural born citizen, is NOT being truthful or honest, but downright pretty skummy, don't you think? Where is your integrity?

As I said before, don't you THINK that you should substantiate your accusations, with proof that HE IS LYING before you make up a bunch of shit, accuse him of it, and then charge that he is not being open and honest becasue he doesn;t open up his records to prove that your made up, far fetched accusation with no proof to back it up, is not true for goodness sakes.

Why, can YOU not see this is "not right and just"?

To answer your questions, my family had announcements put in the local paper for children born out of state. Some just listed sex and weight, and grandparents, while others listed where the child was born. Hawaii had a policy where if a child was born out of country, it could get a Hawaiin birth certificate, up to a certain time period (I believe it was under a month). "Theoretically", his family could have a 'legal' birth certificate for the child even if he was born in another country. That has never been my focus.

How about FACTS. The Announcement of Obama's birth was put in 2 Honolulu newspapers by the Dept of Health Bureau of vital Statistics, AS THE HEADER OF THE SECTION IN THE NEWS PAPER STATES, in plain view. Not by his grandparents, not by his parents, NOT by anyone other than the Hawaii Dept of Health, AS THE AD STATES. Why is it that YOU have not googled this to SEE the actual ad in the newspapers that it ran in and the Header of this section STATING it was the Bureau of Health that put out these statistics?

THIS is a perfect example of what I am upset with you about....all this speculation and yes, lies being spouted, without YOU DOING THE RESEARCH to support those accusations, while demanding that Obama defend the supportless accusations?

Hawaii has NO SUCH LAW that a baby born in another state or country after 1 month can get a hawaiian birth certificate willy nilly.....

ALL BULL CRAP and yes again, lies.

IF YOU RESEARCHED IT, you would find that there is no such thing....or clause for someone like Obama....WHOSE BIRTH WAS REGISTERED within 4 DAYS OF BEING BORN.


HERE ARE THE RULES DEAR: Hawai‘i State Department of Health


Again, that is not where my UNANSWERED questions are. You have not answered them and are 'spouting' kool aid answers for which you cannot prove. That, is my entire point, that the records that could prove, one way or another, have been sealed, to prevent anyone from knowing. If actions are all we have to go on, his are lacking.

how were your legitimate questions NOT ANSWERED?

If you don't know these things, you cannot prove that this man is a US citizen, you, like the rest of us can only guess 'what' he really is. The muslims believe that people should be judged on their merits and deeds above their words, so far, it is not looking to good for his integrity.

Prove what things? PROVE WHAT? Dont' know what things? I've answered THEM ALL, you either threw out lies or bogus accusations with no support they are even feasible, there is nothing to prove to you if your accusations are not even in the realm of being possible??? and they are not possible.

If you have some proof of 'his integrity' or his 'honesty', or 'his love for this country', please provide the evidence. I am desperately 'hoping' this man that won the office of president cares about the citizens and the country. Not much to go on, so far.

How does one prove to someone who has no integrity themselves, that they themselves have integrity and why should they have to prove something like this to them now? Because it is "them" that is making up the false accusations in the first place?

Again, I am not stating 'facts'. I am asking questions, and you, like the rest of the people that are blindly protecting him, will not answer the questions and refuse to admit that there are documents that could prove it, either way. If you do not 'know' that he claimed to be a citizen of a foreign country to attend some fairly expensive colleges (those tuitions were never explained either for a 'middle' class kid), how can you say that he didn't? He attended more than one college, did he claim foreign citizenship (as an adult and sign the paperwork stating it), to get into those colleges?

Do you have any proof AT ALL that Obama was not born in Hawaii? Do you have any proof AT ALL that he accepted foreign aid to go to college?

Do you have any PROOF AT ALL that if a child born in the usa, with one American parent and one foreign born parent can not receive foreign aid from his father's country and STILL BE A CITIZEN of this one?

Do you have any proof AT ALL to support these accusations?

i KNOW Obama IS A CITIZEN because the COLB, the official State documents lists honolulu, hawaii as his state of birth and there is NO LAW on the hawaii books that would allow his mother to file a late birth for him and still have the FILED REGISTRATION DATE of 4 days after Obama's birth.

I also KNOW via Hawaiin law, that there is NO WAY obama could be born in a foreign country and be given a hawaiian birth certificate, because the LAW only allows birth certificates to be amended by those who were born in hawaii and those born in a foreign country THAT WERE ADOPTED.

HERE IS THE LINK AGAIN Hawai‘i State Department of Health

Please feel free to call me a liar again, it shows that you, as a person, are unwilling to be reflective about the absence of proof, and instead believe a politician that has proven 'not to let the truth get in the way of a good story' (See his speeches on health care and being transparent). Do you care to answer my questions, yet?

I DISAGREE, you are lying, because YOU have no support for your own accusations, either lying or WILLFULLY STAYING IGNORANT, because the PROOF is right before your eyes, if you would only open them to the research and what the facts say....

what you say, is merely fabricated stuff and impossible to even occur, BECAUSE OF THE LAWS in Hawaii regarding this...

I don't mean to be so harsh Logical....it is more out of frustration and all the time I have spent researching all of these far fetched accusations myself, only to find it is clear as day once researched, that what is being accused, isn't even in the realm of possibilities....

Care

Here are the rules:



And here is who can apply for a late registration of birth...which is already not applicable to Obama because his birth WAS REGISTERED ON AUGUST 8, 1961, 4 days after his birth.

Who is Eligible to Apply for Late Registration?

As provided by law (HRS §§338-15, 338-29.5), the following persons may apply for late registration:

* Any person born in Hawaii who is one year old or older and whose birth has not been previously registered in Hawaii, or that person’s parent, guardian, next of kin, or older person acting for that person and having knowledge of the facts of birth may request the registration of a late certificate of birth, except that an application will not be accepted for a deceased person.
* Registration of a late certificate of death, marriage, or divorce may be requested by the person in charge of the disposition of the body, marriage officiant or performer, or court clerk, respectively.

For the fourth, maybe fifth time, the birth certificate is not where my primary QUESTIONS (not accusations) are. My questions are about Obama's early adulthood when he declared himself a citizen (of where, we do not know) to get into college. Did he declare himself to be a foreign citizen to ease financial costs for some very expensive colleges? Did he declare himself to be a US citizen at that time? There is no way to know because 'Mr. Transparency' will not allow those documents to be viewed. If he, the president declared himself to be a foreign citizen as a young adult, and signed paperwork stating that 'declaration', then he would be ineligible. I am amazed that the same people that wanted Bush to find all his paperwork concerning his National Guard service are BLINDLY ignoring what could be an unlawful usurping of this nation. Where are your stones, I mean fortitude?
PS If the 'transparent one' would present the documents that proved him to be eligible, it would be hard to ask any more questions on this subject. Why do you, 'you' think he will not release documents that have been released by other presidents (not all)? Doesn't it make you wonder what the 'transparent one' is HIDING?
Your lack of evidence that he IS a US citizen (or claimed to be a US citizen as a young adult), makes you look as if you are protecting a 'liar'. All you can present are arguements that he is eligible, not any proof. How do you expect to sway people by saying "I looked it up and I am satisfied, I know I have no evidence, but TRUST ME, I know"?

But logi, wanting college information on him is not the same issue as where he was born or birthed, except your part on wanting to see who he got aid from to pay for his college??

If you accept his COLB then why all these questions about whether he received foreign aid or not...

SINCE HE WAS BORN IN HONOLULU, as his COLB STATES, why the pending questions by you on foreign aid? WHAT even makes you THINK that he received foreign aid for you to be so concerned over it? This is what i am talking about....WHY even question whether he received foreign aid????? Is there any proof that he was given foreing aid for you to even question it? Or is this ANOTHER THING that you all PULLED OUT OF THE AIR, that you expect him to answer...?

so essentially you MAKE UP A LIE that he received foreign aid, and then want him to answer up and prove that he did not receive foreign aid?

just toooooo much scumminess for me...but continue to have at it....

 

[jvn]

Logi -

It seems that you have some very heartfelt POLITICAL reasons to not vote for the President when he runs for re-election in 2012.

But I think it is a mistake to turn those policy disagreements into attempts to overturn past elections.

Fringe politics very rarely influence policy.

So work hard to fight on legitimate political ground and may the best ideas win!

Otherwise you doom yourself and what might be your worthy ideas to obscurity.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Still, you have to wonder just what Mr Obama is hiding from us. Because there is little doubt he is hiding something.

 

[logical4u]

I DISAGREE, you are lying, because YOU have no support for your own accusations, either lying or WILLFULLY STAYING IGNORANT, because the PROOF is right before your eyes, if you would only open them to the research and what the facts say....

what you say, is merely fabricated stuff and impossible to even occur, BECAUSE OF THE LAWS in Hawaii regarding this...

I don't mean to be so harsh Logical....it is more out of frustration and all the time I have spent researching all of these far fetched accusations myself, only to find it is clear as day once researched, that what is being accused, isn't even in the realm of possibilities....

Care

Here are the rules:



And here is who can apply for a late registration of birth...which is already not applicable to Obama because his birth WAS REGISTERED ON AUGUST 8, 1961, 4 days after his birth.

For the fourth, maybe fifth time, the birth certificate is not where my primary QUESTIONS (not accusations) are. My questions are about Obama's early adulthood when he declared himself a citizen (of where, we do not know) to get into college. Did he declare himself to be a foreign citizen to ease financial costs for some very expensive colleges? Did he declare himself to be a US citizen at that time? There is no way to know because 'Mr. Transparency' will not allow those documents to be viewed. If he, the president declared himself to be a foreign citizen as a young adult, and signed paperwork stating that 'declaration', then he would be ineligible. I am amazed that the same people that wanted Bush to find all his paperwork concerning his National Guard service are BLINDLY ignoring what could be an unlawful usurping of this nation. Where are your stones, I mean fortitude?
PS If the 'transparent one' would present the documents that proved him to be eligible, it would be hard to ask any more questions on this subject. Why do you, 'you' think he will not release documents that have been released by other presidents (not all)? Doesn't it make you wonder what the 'transparent one' is HIDING?
Your lack of evidence that he IS a US citizen (or claimed to be a US citizen as a young adult), makes you look as if you are protecting a 'liar'. All you can present are arguements that he is eligible, not any proof. How do you expect to sway people by saying "I looked it up and I am satisfied, I know I have no evidence, but TRUST ME, I know"?

But logi, wanting college information on him is not the same issue as where he was born or birthed, except your part on wanting to see who he got aid from to pay for his college??

If you accept his COLB then why all these questions about whether he received foreign aid or not...

SINCE HE WAS BORN IN HONOLULU, as his COLB STATES, why the pending questions by you on foreign aid? WHAT even makes you THINK that he received foreign aid for you to be so concerned over it? This is what i am talking about....WHY even question whether he received foreign aid????? Is there any proof that he was given foreing aid for you to even question it? Or is this ANOTHER THING that you all PULLED OUT OF THE AIR, that you expect him to answer...?

so essentially you MAKE UP A LIE that he received foreign aid, and then want him to answer up and prove that he did not receive foreign aid?

just toooooo much scumminess for me...but continue to have at it....

For the fifth, maybe sixth time, I feel it is important to know if the president of the USA declared 'himself' to be a foreign citizen to get through college. If he did, he is not eligible to serve as the POTUS. I am not making anything up, I am asking questions that should have been answered before he could become a canidate. If the people that determine this has been derilict in their duties, it is our job as citizens to question why. The press has all its people trying to find out how much toilet paper Sarah Palin uses and if she double flushes. They have never done 'serious' investigative reporting on our current president. This thread wanted to know about the birthers, since, I think they have a legitimate beef, I responded and added some other questions, THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN ANSWERED WITH DOCUMENTS.
You seem to want to ridicule and poke fun at people that would like to know the truth. Is that because you can't imagine anyone wanting the law applied equally? Does it bother you to think, that maybe the Obama voters jumped to conclusions (with the help of the press)? Does it bother you that this president is doing NOTHING to grow this country? Or is it because you think it is more important to hide the truth?
As I have said in previous posts, the man that could end this with a stroke of a pen, has spent around a million dollars hiding these documents from public view, why?
Are you afraid of the truth?

Now, if patterns repeat themselves, you will call me a liar for ASKING questions, and provide no, that is zero answers (because the documents are not available for you, either). Ready....set...go...

 

[Emma]

For the fourth, maybe fifth time, the birth certificate is not where my primary QUESTIONS (not accusations) are.

<snip>

For the fifth, maybe sixth time, I feel it is important to know if the president of the USA declared 'himself' to be a foreign citizen to get through college. If he did, he is not eligible to serve as the POTUS.

Declaring himself a foreign citizen to get into college wouldn't change the fact that he was born in Hawaii in 1961 and is therefore eligible to serve as POTUS. IF he did such a thing, it would not strip him of his citizenship. That's not how it works.

At the most, he'd be guilty of fraud and owe someone some money.