I ain't no Birther, but what's up with this?

[Emma]

Here's a freebie for ya. His Selective Service registration. (somehow I missed all the hoopla over this one)

Obama’s Forged Selective Service Registration | Obama Conspiracy Theories


Attorney Debbie Schlussel is the main proponent of this conspiracy theory at debbieschlussel.com, and I call it a conspiracy theory because the claim is that a document obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) from the federal government is faked, and this would require a government cover-up to have taken place.

Robert Stevens asks:

"From the analysis provided by Debbie Schlussel, there is something very amiss with what purports to be Obama’s Selective Service registration. Were the documents the result of a forgery by a “helpful” clerk? Were they the result of a coordinated effort or a request from the Obama Campaign itself? Would the email correspondence show evidence of this? The telephone records? Was there a reason it took around a year to get ahold of this document? Why does the document appear to be a fake?

…I think there is enough evidence here to suggest a crime has taken place…"

This is another one of those Barack Obama cannot become President because… stories. Someone claiming to be an expert found various anomalies with the FOIA obtained copy of Barack Obama’s selective service registration. US law at various times required Americans to register for the draft. The purported anomalies including a file number that seems to have too many digits and a postal stamp that was obsolete. Update: Since the writing of this story, Internet investigators have come up with many examples of the same postal stamp used on registered mail from the same time period when Obama registered; that is, the postal stamp is just fine.

Part of the claimed evidence is the difference between a 27 year old signature from Obama from the supposed Selective Service registration and his signature today.

As someone who has had occasion to sign his name 100 times in a day, I can fully appreciate how a signature changes dramatically towards something simpler and faster when you do it as much as Barack Obama must.

Any time you have a claim that a government agency, in this case, the Selective Service, is faking documents, some serious evidence is required to back it up. So far the evidence hasn’t risen to the level of “serious”.

------

March 30, 2009 at 3:45 pm (Quote)
I received this email today from the SSS

FW: SSS Document Locator Numbers

Sent By:
“Richard Flahavan” On: Mar 03/30/09 12:09 PM
To: [email protected]

Dear Mr. Arduini:

Facts will never trump speculation by conspiracy theorists. But the reality is the following:

a. The 10-character Document Locator Number (DLN) was placed on Selective Service Registration Forms beginning prior to the establishment of our current Data Management Center on 31 August 1981.

b. Prior to 1981, the DLN configuration was different from what is used today.

c. At that time when Mr. Obama registered, the first three characters (089) indicated that the form was keyed in by one of the contract keying centers – in this case 089 equated to the Internal Revenue Service.

d. Later, an 11th digit was added to the DLN just prior to Y2K to differentiate another decade.

Thus, the first three characters of the DLN do NOT represent the year the form was keyed into the SSS registrant database, despite what some may hold dear.

Richard S. Flahavan
Associate Director, Public and Intergovernmental Affairs
Selective Service System National Headquarters





[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE[/ame]

 

[Care4all]

For the fourth, maybe fifth time, the birth certificate is not where my primary QUESTIONS (not accusations) are. My questions are about Obama's early adulthood when he declared himself a citizen (of where, we do not know) to get into college. Did he declare himself to be a foreign citizen to ease financial costs for some very expensive colleges? Did he declare himself to be a US citizen at that time? There is no way to know because 'Mr. Transparency' will not allow those documents to be viewed. If he, the president declared himself to be a foreign citizen as a young adult, and signed paperwork stating that 'declaration', then he would be ineligible. I am amazed that the same people that wanted Bush to find all his paperwork concerning his National Guard service are BLINDLY ignoring what could be an unlawful usurping of this nation. Where are your stones, I mean fortitude?
PS If the 'transparent one' would present the documents that proved him to be eligible, it would be hard to ask any more questions on this subject. Why do you, 'you' think he will not release documents that have been released by other presidents (not all)? Doesn't it make you wonder what the 'transparent one' is HIDING?
Your lack of evidence that he IS a US citizen (or claimed to be a US citizen as a young adult), makes you look as if you are protecting a 'liar'. All you can present are arguements that he is eligible, not any proof. How do you expect to sway people by saying "I looked it up and I am satisfied, I know I have no evidence, but TRUST ME, I know"?

But logi, wanting college information on him is not the same issue as where he was born or birthed, except your part on wanting to see who he got aid from to pay for his college??

If you accept his COLB then why all these questions about whether he received foreign aid or not...

SINCE HE WAS BORN IN HONOLULU, as his COLB STATES, why the pending questions by you on foreign aid? WHAT even makes you THINK that he received foreign aid for you to be so concerned over it? This is what i am talking about....WHY even question whether he received foreign aid????? Is there any proof that he was given foreing aid for you to even question it? Or is this ANOTHER THING that you all PULLED OUT OF THE AIR, that you expect him to answer...?

so essentially you MAKE UP A LIE that he received foreign aid, and then want him to answer up and prove that he did not receive foreign aid?

just toooooo much scumminess for me...but continue to have at it....

For the fifth, maybe sixth time, I feel it is important to know if the president of the USA declared 'himself' to be a foreign citizen to get through college. If he did, he is not eligible to serve as the POTUS. I am not making anything up, I am asking questions that should have been answered before he could become a canidate. If the people that determine this has been derilict in their duties, it is our job as citizens to question why. The press has all its people trying to find out how much toilet paper Sarah Palin uses and if she double flushes. They have never done 'serious' investigative reporting on our current president. This thread wanted to know about the birthers, since, I think they have a legitimate beef, I responded and added some other questions, THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN ANSWERED WITH DOCUMENTS.
You seem to want to ridicule and poke fun at people that would like to know the truth. Is that because you can't imagine anyone wanting the law applied equally? Does it bother you to think, that maybe the Obama voters jumped to conclusions (with the help of the press)? Does it bother you that this president is doing NOTHING to grow this country? Or is it because you think it is more important to hide the truth?
As I have said in previous posts, the man that could end this with a stroke of a pen, has spent around a million dollars hiding these documents from public view, why?
Are you afraid of the truth?

Now, if patterns repeat themselves, you will call me a liar for ASKING questions, and provide no, that is zero answers (because the documents are not available for you, either). Ready....set...go...

logi, why do you even speculate or even think obama lied and claimed he was a foreign citizen to get school financial aid?

what makes you say such? or basically what kind of proof do you have to even MAKE THIS ACCUSATION and then on top of that... expect obama to answer your 'made up' accusation?

for the third or fourth time, DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF, that obama claimed to be a foreign student... yes or no answer please.

 

[jvn]

To follow up Care's question Logi,

Do you question whether or not George Bush claimed some financial aid that he wasn't entitled to?

Bill Clinton?

Ronald Reagan?

Mitt Romney? (His father was born in Mexico, you know, making Romney a potential Mexican citizen...)

For you to be making this claim applying to only President Obama makes it seem like you do so solely because of his "foreign sounding" name and his skin color...

 

[SFC Ollie]

The question of Mr Obama possibly receiving aid as a foreign student arises from the possibility that when he was Adopted By an Indonesian citizen he may have lost his American Citizenship. Unfortunately the records regarding all this have been hidden or covered up somehow also.

Again there is little doubt that Mr Obama is hiding something. Just no idea what.

 

[Jay Canuck]

[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Rage Grows In America[/SIZE]
Racism, Conspiracy Theories Fuel Anti-Government Fervor

Link Excerpt:
Rumors about gun confiscations. Angry protests about the government's tax policies, replete with Nazi comparisons. A resurgent militia movement. Rage at the election of a president deemed to be illegitimate and threatening. Distrust and anger toward the government fueled by paranoia and conspiracy theories. They are among the crosscurrents of anger and hostility that have swept certain sectors of the country since Obama took office nearly a year ago. And they are contributing to "a toxic atmosphere of rage in America," according to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), which today issued a report looking at the various sources that have given rise to a climate of anti-government fervor in the United States. Since Obama became president we have seen a tremendous amount of anger and hostility," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "There is a toxic atmosphere of rage in America being witnessed at many levels, and it raises fundamental questions for our society."

 

[ABikerSailor]

The question of Mr Obama possibly receiving aid as a foreign student arises from the possibility that when he was Adopted By an Indonesian citizen he may have lost his American Citizenship. Unfortunately the records requarding all this have been hidden or covered up somehow also.

Again there is little doubt that Mr Obama is hiding something. Just no idea what.

First question.........what is "re quard ing"?

Second question.........what the fuck is it about you that made you such a paranoid pussy?

I thought Army guys were supposed to be brave. But then again.........from your look in your avi, I'm guessing a REMF.

Am I right? Main reason I ask is because you REMF motherfuckers like to gossip like little old women and bring up conspiracy theories.

Inquiring minds wanna know Ollie.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The question of Mr Obama possibly receiving aid as a foreign student arises from the possibility that when he was Adopted By an Indonesian citizen he may have lost his American Citizenship. Unfortunately the records requarding all this have been hidden or covered up somehow also.

Again there is little doubt that Mr Obama is hiding something. Just no idea what.

First question.........what is "re quard ing"?

Second question.........what the fuck is it about you that made you such a paranoid pussy?

I thought Army guys were supposed to be brave. But then again.........from your look in your avi, I'm guessing a REMF.

Am I right? Main reason I ask is because you REMF motherfuckers like to gossip like little old women and bring up conspiracy theories.

Inquiring minds wanna know Ollie.

Ah you actually caught me with a mis-spelling. Isn't that precious. And no I was not a REMF. But I am obviously smart enough to know that no one uses lawyers to bury their paperwork unless they have something to hide. I say again, Mr Obama is hiding something, What, I haven't a clue.

Never knew you could tell what a man did by looking at a picture. maybe I should post an updated one someday.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well.......considering that I can read your fitness level from your pic (8 years as a Physical Fitness Counselor), you kinda look a bit soft.

Sort of like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.

And from what I can read of your ribbons, they look like you got 'em because you had a pulse and could fog a mirror.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Well.......considering that I can read your fitness level from your pic (8 years as a Physical Fitness Counselor), you kinda look a bit soft.

Sort of like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.

And from what I can read of your ribbons, they look like you got 'em because you had a pulse and could fog a mirror.

Well, most people would think that was a respectable display of salad for 1987. The only one I wear today is the National Defense ribbon. It's the only one that truly matters. At any rate, at least I am honest enough to put the picture out there. And not ashamed as you would have me be. Nice try though. But I'm also not some thin skinned punk kid.

I do still wonder why you want to try to degrade other veterans and retirees....Is your own self esteem that low?

Oh not that it's any of your business but my PT score was usually around 260 out of a possible 300, Respectable. Never claimed to be super Sergeant. In fact I don't brag about anything I've done. Look in the mirror much?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well.......considering that I can read your fitness level from your pic (8 years as a Physical Fitness Counselor), you kinda look a bit soft.

Sort of like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.

And from what I can read of your ribbons, they look like you got 'em because you had a pulse and could fog a mirror.

Well, most people would think that was a respectable display of salad for 1987. The only one I wear today is the National Defense ribbon. It's the only one that truly matters. At any rate, at least I am honest enough to put the picture out there. And not ashamed as you would have me be. Nice try though. But I'm also not some thin skinned punk kid.

I do still wonder why you want to try to degrade other veterans and retirees....Is your own self esteem that low?

Oh not that it's any of your business but my PT score was usually around 260 out of a possible 300, Respectable. Never claimed to be super Sergeant. In fact I don't brag about anything I've done. Look in the mirror much?

National Defense? THAT is the one that matters most to you? REALLY?

Well, considering that when you only wear a few ribbons, you generally wear only the top 3 awards.

Me? 3 Navy Achievements, several Expeditionary Medals, as well as some other rather decent PERSONAL, not UNIT awards.

Apparently, unlike you, I actually did something with my career, which is why I don't keep looking for stupid conspiracy theories.

Oh yeah.....260 out of 300? Well.........during the time I was PRT coordinator at the War College in Newport RI, when it came to PRT, there were 2 top scores in the command each cycle. Lt Roux's and mine.

It was a toss up each cycle to see who would beat each other. Scores were ALWAYS 296 to 300.

Try again Dough Boy (which incidentally, is a WWI term for an army dude).

Oh yeah..........the reason they made me PRT coordinator? I raced bicycles. My average mileage PER DAY was 50 - 150 miles.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Well.......considering that I can read your fitness level from your pic (8 years as a Physical Fitness Counselor), you kinda look a bit soft.

Sort of like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.

And from what I can read of your ribbons, they look like you got 'em because you had a pulse and could fog a mirror.

Well, most people would think that was a respectable display of salad for 1987. The only one I wear today is the National Defense ribbon. It's the only one that truly matters. At any rate, at least I am honest enough to put the picture out there. And not ashamed as you would have me be. Nice try though. But I'm also not some thin skinned punk kid.

I do still wonder why you want to try to degrade other veterans and retirees....Is your own self esteem that low?

Oh not that it's any of your business but my PT score was usually around 260 out of a possible 300, Respectable. Never claimed to be super Sergeant. In fact I don't brag about anything I've done. Look in the mirror much?

National Defense? THAT is the one that matters most to you? REALLY?

Well, considering that when you only wear a few ribbons, you generally wear only the top 3 awards.

Me? 3 Navy Achievements, several Expeditionary Medals, as well as some other rather decent PERSONAL, not UNIT awards.

Apparently, unlike you, I actually did something with my career, which is why I don't keep looking for stupid conspiracy theories.

Oh yeah.....260 out of 300? Well.........during the time I was PRT coordinator at the War College in Newport RI, when it came to PRT, there were 2 top scores in the command each cycle. Lt Roux's and mine.

It was a toss up each cycle to see who would beat each other. Scores were ALWAYS 296 to 300.

Try again Dough Boy (which incidentally, is a WWI term for an army dude).

Oh yeah..........the reason they made me PRT coordinator? I raced bicycles. My average mileage PER DAY was 50 - 150 miles.

Brag much? Some day I might list my awards and decorations, if there is ever a need. Other than that, 2 Awards of the National Defense. Yes I consider those the most important. It means I served during 2 separate times of national conflict. No Brag, just fact.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know..........National Defense Service medals are awarded to ANYONE during a time of war.

Criteria: a. The National Defense Service Medal was awarded for honorable active service for any period between 27 June 1950 and 27 July 1954; between 1 January 1961 and 14 August 1974; between 2 August 1990 and 30 November 1995 and between 11 September 2001 and a closing date to be determined. For the purpose of the award, the following persons will not be considered as performing active service:

(1) Guard and Reserve forces personnel on short tours of duty to fulfill training obligations under an inactive duty training program.

(2) Any person on active duty for the sole purpose of undergoing a physical examination.

(3) Any person on temporary active duty to serve on boards, courts, commissions and like organizations or on active duty for purposes other than extended active duty.

(4) A one time only exception, for members of the Army National Guard and United States Army Reserve, who were part of the selected reserve in good standing, was authorized, per executive orders 12778, dated 18 October 1991, for the period 2 August 1990 to 30 November 1995.

b. The National Defense Service Medal may be awarded to members of the Reserve Components who are ordered to Federal active duty, regardless of duration, except for the categories listed above. Any member of the Guard or Reserve who, after 31 December 1960, becomes eligible for the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, Vietnam Service Medal or the Southwest Asia Service Medal is also eligible for the National Defense Service Medal.

c. To signify receipt of a second or subsequent award of the NDSM, a bronze service star will be worn on the service ribbon by U.S. Army personnel so qualified. Second or third award of the NDSM is authorized for soldiers who served in one or more of the four qualifying time periods. It is not authorized for soldiers who met the criteria in one time period, left active duty and returned during the same period of eligibility.

d. Cadets of the U.S. Military Academy are eligible for the NDSM, during any of the inclusive periods listed above, upon completion of the swearing-in ceremonies as a cadet.

Me? I place more value on my Expeditionary Medals. Why? Simple........you actually have to go to the conflict zone to earn them.

National Defense? All you need is a pulse and an honorable.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Please see previous post.

 

[ABikerSailor]

So........in other words......you didn't do anything special.

Okay. Got it.

You're a class A pud.

 

[Emma]

The question of Mr Obama possibly receiving aid as a foreign student arises from the possibility that when he was Adopted By an Indonesian citizen he may have lost his American Citizenship. Unfortunately the records regarding all this have been hidden or covered up somehow also.

Again there is little doubt that Mr Obama is hiding something. Just no idea what.

One does not "lose" their US citizenship that easily. First of all, you must be of age. Second, I've seen no proof of any 'adoption'.

POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING ACTS

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

• obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
  
  
• taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
  
  
• entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
  
  
• accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
  
  
• formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
  
  
• formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only under strict, narrow statutory conditions) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
  
  
• conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

(italics in original)

Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality


BTW, Indonesia does NOT allow dual nationality, and neither does Kenya.

 

[Emma]

US CODE: Title 8,1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions


(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or


(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or


(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or


(4)
(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or

(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or


(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or


(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or


(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.


[note the title of this statute... NATIVE born or naturalized. The only two legally recognized types of US citizenship, for those who claim there's a difference between "native born" and "natural born".]

 

[Emma]

President Obama could not have simply "lost" his US citizenship by living in Indonesia (even if he HAD been adopted), and although the US does allow for dual citizenship, Kenya and Indonesia do NOT; furthermore, he returned to the US long before his 18th birthday, therefore Obama is a US citizen. And since by statute there are only two forms of US citizenship --- native born and naturalized --- he is eligible to serve as POTUS as a native born (i.e. NATURAL born) citizen.

 

[Care4all]

The question of Mr Obama possibly receiving aid as a foreign student arises from the possibility that when he was Adopted By an Indonesian citizen he may have lost his American Citizenship. Unfortunately the records regarding all this have been hidden or covered up somehow also.

Again there is little doubt that Mr Obama is hiding something. Just no idea what.

A born American can NOT lose their citizenship as a child....they are not of legal age to swear their allegiance to a new country, or to give up their citizenship....

once i looked up the law it made sense, and it should to you as well....you can't TAKE someones citizenship away easily and one must be of LEGAL AGE to give it up.

obama was nearly 5 years old when he got to indonesia and was there about 3-4 years before being sent back to his grandmother in hawaii....on the application for the school obama was sent to in indonesia by his step father, it lists HAWAII as his birth place as well.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So........in other words......you didn't do anything special.

Okay. Got it.

You're a class A pud.

Nope nothing special at all. At least nothing that I consider worth bragging about. Unlike other people we have heard from.

Simply put, you go ahead and Brag all you like, I simply do not choose to do so. And that's Sergeant First Class A pud. to you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

No......it's just pud. You're a civilian now.