How to get to heaven...

[Chuckt]

Chuck, I don't want to engage in the discussion which is pointless and divisive.
And on a lot of other matters we agree.

Please, just answer the question.

WHICH one? that you are going to prove me wrong? No, you won't.

I already stated above, that I do not consider English translations to be the most perfect ones.

When I refer to the phrase I have it in my head in my native language.

So you can not prove me wrong using problems with English variations as those are not the ones I refer to.
I just quote it here in English

Basically it doesn't matter if I have the truth or not because you won't listen.

 

[Vox]

This is all so confusing. I was baptized, but was I really? I was dunked, and a bunch of prayers said over me, and I was told I was now "saved" and I would be filled with glory and the love of God...didn't I feel different already? I nodded. Oh yes. I felt wonderful. Um. No. I felt relieved I would not be stung forever and ever by scorpions and be torn to pieces over and over again in this place called hell...cuz that is what they said would happen if I were not "saved". I think I was about 12. Give or take. Did I feel different after the dunking? Nope.

With that said, I have always believed in God. Even when younger than the dunking. I would write God childish notes and tape Dear God letters on the wall. One day I taped a dollar bill from my piggy bank cuz I wanted to give Him a present. Next morning it was still there but I figured he didn't need it. I think I was about 6ish at that time. And today, at 61, I still believe in God. So was I truly baptized? And if not, since it was done because I was afraid of what they told me would happen to me if I wasn't, did it count in the eyes of God? Or is just believing in Him enough?

I don't torture animals. I don't steal. I don't murder. I don't con people. I don't go out of my way to be cruel. I try to do as Jesus taught. I am not perfect. I made and make mistakes. But I give to those less fortunate than I, I share, I rarely ask for something and prefer to give than get. I think I am doing ok. But according to this one or that one, that group or this group, that religion vs another religion...it is all different answers. Which leads me to believe what I believe...that God knows your heart more than you do or anyone else does. And if you die, are a good person, try the best you can, then yes...God will receive you. And hell is not a place of neverending torture and pain. My God would not do that to His children. They are just...absent from His presence. But they have to be REALLY bad to be in that void without his light.

Probably didn't make sense, but if I try to make sense of it all...I'd probably go crazy. Or be crazier than some think I already am.

I think you have all the needed components - your faith, your good deeds and your desire to help.
And the Grace of God is universal.

He came here, was tortured and crucified for all of us.
Redemption is universal. You are working on the salvation part. As we all are.

 

[Gracie]

If you believe that Jesus died in your place for your sins, was buried and rose again then that is enough faith to save you from hell and give you new eternal life. It pretty much sums up the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15.

I'm good then, because I believe exactly that. And have since I was old enough to know who Jesus was to begin with...which was about 5 years old..give or take.

But I knew I was good with Him anyway. I have faith in God. And He knows my heart.

 

[Vox]

Please, just answer the question.

WHICH one? that you are going to prove me wrong? No, you won't.

I already stated above, that I do not consider English translations to be the most perfect ones.

When I refer to the phrase I have it in my head in my native language.

So you can not prove me wrong using problems with English variations as those are not the ones I refer to.
I just quote it here in English

Basically it doesn't matter if I have the truth or not because you won't listen.

you believe you have the truth. It does not mean it IS one.

 

[rebelgirl]

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
___________________________________________________________________
I believe that if we are truly born again we will want to do good works and witness to other people about the Grace of God but we are not saved by our works. Salvation is free to all who ask.

 

[Chuckt]

WHICH one? that you are going to prove me wrong? No, you won't.

I already stated above, that I do not consider English translations to be the most perfect ones.

When I refer to the phrase I have it in my head in my native language.

So you can not prove me wrong using problems with English variations as those are not the ones I refer to.
I just quote it here in English

Basically it doesn't matter if I have the truth or not because you won't listen.

you believe you have the truth. It does not mean it IS one.

You've passed judgment on what you haven't read and shown unwillingness that I found something that was already there.

 

[Vox]

Basically it doesn't matter if I have the truth or not because you won't listen.

you believe you have the truth. It does not mean it IS one.

You've passed judgment on what you haven't read and shown unwillingness that I found something that was already there.

Chuck I do not agree with the concept that faith alone is enough for salvation.
So I just do not want to engage in the fruitless discussion.
I love you as a brother in Christ and I believe we all have our road to salvation.
It does not mean that I have to "convert" you, or vice verse.

 

[mskafka]

Read scripture. Research the history, beginning with the Catholic church. My understanding has always been that baptism is essential. (Mark 16:16) But make sure that you understand why you're getting baptized. The New American Bible (School and Church Edition) has been the most helpful to me; and I've been reading scripture, since age 6...yes, the "children's Bible", and King James at 9.

 

[Chuckt]

you believe you have the truth. It does not mean it IS one.

You've passed judgment on what you haven't read and shown unwillingness that I found something that was already there.

Chuck I do not agree with the concept that faith alone is enough for salvation.
So I just do not want to engage in the fruitless discussion.
I love you as a brother in Christ and I believe we all have our road to salvation.
It does not mean that I have to "convert" you, or vice verse.

I'm sure I'll make it and you might not.

 

[theword]

This is all so confusing. I was baptized, but was I really? I was dunked, and a bunch of prayers said over me, and I was told I was now "saved" and I would be filled with glory and the love of God...didn't I feel different already? I nodded. Oh yes. I felt wonderful. Um. No. I felt relieved I would not be stung forever and ever by scorpions and be torn to pieces over and over again in this place called hell...cuz that is what they said would happen if I were not "saved". I think I was about 12. Give or take. Did I feel different after the dunking? Nope.

With that said, I have always believed in God. Even when younger than the dunking. I would write God childish notes and tape Dear God letters on the wall. One day I taped a dollar bill from my piggy bank cuz I wanted to give Him a present. Next morning it was still there but I figured he didn't need it. I think I was about 6ish at that time. And today, at 61, I still believe in God. So was I truly baptized? And if not, since it was done because I was afraid of what they told me would happen to me if I wasn't, did it count in the eyes of God? Or is just believing in Him enough?

I don't torture animals. I don't steal. I don't murder. I don't con people. I don't go out of my way to be cruel. I try to do as Jesus taught. I am not perfect. I made and make mistakes. But I give to those less fortunate than I, I share, I rarely ask for something and prefer to give than get. I think I am doing ok. But according to this one or that one, that group or this group, that religion vs another religion...it is all different answers. Which leads me to believe what I believe...that God knows your heart more than you do or anyone else does. And if you die, are a good person, try the best you can, then yes...God will receive you. And hell is not a place of neverending torture and pain. My God would not do that to His children. They are just...absent from His presence. But they have to be REALLY bad to be in that void without his light.

Probably didn't make sense, but if I try to make sense of it all...I'd probably go crazy. Or be crazier than some think I already am.

I understand you very well. Your story is much like many of the chosen believers who are listening to the true gospel I preach to them here in Campbell, CA.

God chose His believers and unbelievers during this age who would either listen to the gospel His saints preach or reject His voice, which is the gospel. I have many testimonies in this forum so if you can hear something different than what you hear from religious Christians, then you may be one of God's believers. I can't tell you who you are unless you begin to read my written testimonies or listen to my spoken word of God. This will determine whether God chose you to hear Him or not.

Do you think God would leave it up to His ignorant children to decide their own salvation? That would be like letting your young children leave the house and make their own decisions on how to live their lives. Most young children would be too afraid to leave the house and survive on their own. Well, this is what is happening to ALL God's people in this world delusion that causes them to be confused and fearful as you are today. I can teach you all about God's delusion and why He created for this age only.

 

[Vox]

You've passed judgment on what you haven't read and shown unwillingness that I found something that was already there.

Chuck I do not agree with the concept that faith alone is enough for salvation.
So I just do not want to engage in the fruitless discussion.
I love you as a brother in Christ and I believe we all have our road to salvation.
It does not mean that I have to "convert" you, or vice verse.

I'm sure I'll make it and you might not.

OK, I can live with that

 

[Chuckt]

Read scripture. Research the history, beginning with the Catholic church. My understanding has always been that baptism is essential. (Mark 16:16) But make sure that you understand why you're getting baptized. The New American Bible (School and Church Edition) has been the most helpful to me; and I've been reading scripture, since age 6...yes, the "children's Bible", and King James at 9.

I refer to Catholicism as an incomplete gospel and that is as polite as I can come without repelling Catholics. You have to be born from above which is not baptism but being born again means different things to the Catholic.

I fought the baptism debate for years and I have four printouts of my debates that equal the size of a book and it is quite a lengthy debate but you'll never prove to me or win a debate where you become Christian by being baptized. Start a new thread and address me if you wish to go down that road but I'll give you an introduction and I also have all the arguments written down and I can win but first look at this introductory information:

Meaning of the Word Baptize

Do Mark 16:16 and John 3:5 Teach Salvation by Baptism?

Do Acts 2;38 and Romans 6:4 Teach Salvation by Baptism?

What Is Required For Salvation?

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

A "like figure" in 1 Peter 3:21 would be the equivalent to a photograph today. Photographs don't create history or make history happen. Photographs only record a past or present reality. Photographs don't create present realities so that is a big part of my argument why Baptism does not save a person.

Baptism doesn't represent life because it represents DEATH:

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

There are these other symbols of baptism:

1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

We have this symbolism. Noah is also a symbol of baptism. The eight souls in the ark were baptized. The people outside of the ark were baptized too and died. You have to put your faith in Jesus (the ark) because everyone outside was baptized and died just like millions of Catholics will be baptized and die in their sins because they aren't saved.

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

You want to go to heaven? Don't be misled.

 

[Chuckt]

Chuck I do not agree with the concept that faith alone is enough for salvation.
So I just do not want to engage in the fruitless discussion.
I love you as a brother in Christ and I believe we all have our road to salvation.
It does not mean that I have to "convert" you, or vice verse.

I'm sure I'll make it and you might not.

OK, I can live with that

But you can't argue as long as you won't open your eyes.

 

[theword]

Read scripture. Research the history, beginning with the Catholic church. My understanding has always been that baptism is essential. (Mark 16:16) But make sure that you understand why you're getting baptized. The New American Bible (School and Church Edition) has been the most helpful to me; and I've been reading scripture, since age 6...yes, the "children's Bible", and King James at 9.

Water baptism is a Jewish tradition that got started by disobedient Jewish leaders who tried to wash away their sins with holy water. They didn't understand what the Old Covenant "veil" was about and that ALL God's people were born into this delusion. It was a way for God to connect with His invisible servant called Christ through the flesh of His prophets and saints.

Jesus asked the religious Jews about their water baptism because he knew they didn't understand that their earthly fathers started this religious practice that came from the beast. God doesn't need His people to try wash away their sins by themselves. He already planned the salvation of ALL His people before this visible world appeared in the eyes of His first people.

 

[Vox]

I'm sure I'll make it and you might not.

OK, I can live with that

But you can't argue as long as you won't open your eyes.

I do not NEED to argue

that is what you fail to understand.

 

[Chuckt]

OK, I can live with that

But you can't argue as long as you won't open your eyes.

I do not NEED to argue

that is what you fail to understand.

You already are arguing. You are asserting your doctrine over mine.

 

[Vox]

whatever. good night. it is past midnight here.

 

[mskafka]

Read scripture. Research the history, beginning with the Catholic church. My understanding has always been that baptism is essential. (Mark 16:16) But make sure that you understand why you're getting baptized. The New American Bible (School and Church Edition) has been the most helpful to me; and I've been reading scripture, since age 6...yes, the "children's Bible", and King James at 9.

Water baptism is a Jewish tradition that got started by disobedient Jewish leaders who tried to wash away their sins with holy water. They didn't understand what the Old Covenant "veil" was about and that ALL God's people were born into this delusion. It was a way for God to connect with His invisible servant called Christ through the flesh of His prophets and saints.

Jesus asked the religious Jews about their water baptism because he knew they didn't understand that their earthly fathers started this religious practice that came from the beast. God doesn't need His people to try wash away their sins by themselves. He already planned the salvation of ALL His people before this visible world appeared in the eyes of His first people.

You know as well as I, that 10 people can read Scripture, and then give 10 different interpretations. Catholics and the churches of Christ require baptism, before one can partake in communion.

And I agree that salvation doesn't necessitate water. If an individual learns of the Gospel, but is unable to be officially baptized...it's doubtful that one would be condemned to Hell. Catholics call it: "The baptism of desire." That's good enough for me. But then, I don't think that one has to be a Christian to be saved. There are too many things left to consider-like indigenous people.

 

[Chuckt]

whatever. good night. it is past midnight here.

Good night.

 

[Gracie]

Chuck...lighten up, please? You are starting to thump. It leaves lumps. Let vox go her path. You go yours. She just doesn't want to talk about it further because it is accomplishing nothing and the more you push, the more she steps away. Is that the goal? I think not. So please let her be.