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My understanding of scripture, is that a person is held accountable for the amount of knowledge he has acquired. If he grows up never having been exposed to the Gospel, how can he be held accountable? I know that some churches preach the "age of accountability." And Catholics believe in original sin, if memory serves me right.
I was once asked a very similar question, by a friend who had no strong roots in any religion. She asked me about tribes in third-world countries, and whether or not they would be held to the same level of accountability....and if they would go to Hell, if not converted. My answer was no.
1. How can we expect people who can't read, to know scripture? Sure there are missionaries, but have they reached all of the indigenous people?
2. Is it possible (as George Burns stated in "Oh God!") that God reached out to every religion and culture in a way that was meaningful to each group of people: Buddhists, Hindus, Shinto, etc..?
3. Regarding science and a supreme being-I think there's room for both. Think big. Our bodies are basically a life, within a life, within a life. Break it down-organism, organ system, organ, tissue, cell, molecule, and atom. Does it go to infinity? Now start with the human body, and go up. When we go the other direction, does it go to infinity? Are we a miniscule part of something MUCH bigger?
No, I don't think that's my idea alone. Scientists obsessively study it, every day. You can be a Christian, and believe in science.
I was thinking of this story, Drake. It came to me while you were telling your story about the compassionate atheist. It reminds me of this story I heard once about a young diver who was stung by 5 boxer jelly fish. He dragged himself into the boat and somehow made it back to shore, then he made it to a little outdoor cafe and said he heard a voice telling him to humble himself and beg these men for a ride to the hospital..... so he begged these men to take him to the hospital but he could barely talk by then ( I am telling by memory so I am telling this from recollection ) and the men thought he was drunk. They laughed at him and refused to help. Finally he says he saw a taxi driver, he had no money but he begged the man for a ride to the hospital too.. he was refused again and felt great anger towards the man... then suddenly his friends appeared and rushed him to hospital... he said he heard a voice asking him would he be willing to forgive the men who refused him help? He said yes. He was a very kind man, a loving man but an atheist who had rejected his mothers faith in God. He said he then felt himself leave his body and enter into the presence of a light and such love as he had never encountered.. he said then he saw a different place of utter perfection, so beautiful he just wanted to step into it, it was another place like earth but far more beautiful and perfect in every way and he desired to go there and live.. God spoke to him and he immediately accepted that this was God and that he did accept Him as God. In that moment his understanding became very clear and he embraced Gods love with his whole heart. God said to him, it is up to you. You can go back or you can stay here. In that moment he wanted to say I will stay here! Then suddenly he realized his mother would be broken hearted not knowing the fate of her son and he said I want to stay but should go back. I wouldn't want my mother to live out her life not knowing what became of me. In that moment he returned back into his body and although he was announced dead - the doctor saw a part of his body move and called the nurses to rush him back into the room to continue giving him some antidote. He survived and I believe he is one of the only people in the world to have survived such a thing. Today he believes in God and shares his story with others. Is he telling the truth? I think he must be because how else would an atheist who was announced dead return to life a believer if he had not encountered God? So I believe God knew this young mans heart and knew that when he met Him he would accept him. I do not say this is the case for all atheists but in this mans case God's mercy is quite evident.
About your other question. I have not changed my mind about this although my christian brethren would disagree with me. If a Christian is mean and yet says he loves God what good is it? If he does many good works for his church and his fellow brethren but hates the lost how does the love of God abide in his heart? I cannot believe such a Christian would go to heaven being mean to people because by doing so he has done it unto Jesus. So in answer to your latter question I would say no. That Christian would not go to heaven. I think as believers of course we can miss it but the right thing to do is repent of that and then return to what we know is right.
I know of a story of a man who was a Christian and had money but refused to help a family he knew because the father was taken to drinking. He used the bible verse if a man won't work neither shall he eat. He let that family go without and didn't offer any help. He died. I read about it in a book. It grieved me deeply. * I don't want to debate about any of this I just wanted to share my thoughts with you because you seemed sincere in asking.
No offense BD, but are you obsessed with music? Half of your posts are links to Youtube about some song or another! Again, no offense.
I was thinking of this story, Drake. It came to me while you were telling your story about the compassionate atheist. It reminds me of this story I heard once about a young diver who was stung by 5 boxer jelly fish. He dragged himself into the boat and somehow made it back to shore, then he made it to a little outdoor cafe and said he heard a voice telling him to humble himself and beg these men for a ride to the hospital..... so he begged these men to take him to the hospital but he could barely talk by then ( I am telling by memory so I am telling this from recollection ) and the men thought he was drunk. They laughed at him and refused to help. Finally he says he saw a taxi driver, he had no money but he begged the man for a ride to the hospital too.. he was refused again and felt great anger towards the man... then suddenly his friends appeared and rushed him to hospital... he said he heard a voice asking him would he be willing to forgive the men who refused him help? He said yes. He was a very kind man, a loving man but an atheist who had rejected his mothers faith in God. He said he then felt himself leave his body and enter into the presence of a light and such love as he had never encountered.. he said then he saw a different place of utter perfection, so beautiful he just wanted to step into it, it was another place like earth but far more beautiful and perfect in every way and he desired to go there and live.. God spoke to him and he immediately accepted that this was God and that he did accept Him as God. In that moment his understanding became very clear and he embraced Gods love with his whole heart. God said to him, it is up to you. You can go back or you can stay here. In that moment he wanted to say I will stay here! Then suddenly he realized his mother would be broken hearted not knowing the fate of her son and he said I want to stay but should go back. I wouldn't want my mother to live out her life not knowing what became of me. In that moment he returned back into his body and although he was announced dead - the doctor saw a part of his body move and called the nurses to rush him back into the room to continue giving him some antidote. He survived and I believe he is one of the only people in the world to have survived such a thing. Today he believes in God and shares his story with others. Is he telling the truth? I think he must be because how else would an atheist who was announced dead return to life a believer if he had not encountered God? So I believe God knew this young mans heart and knew that when he met Him he would accept him. I do not say this is the case for all atheists but in this mans case God's mercy is quite evident.
About your other question. I have not changed my mind about this although my christian brethren would disagree with me. If a Christian is mean and yet says he loves God what good is it? If he does many good works for his church and his fellow brethren but hates the lost how does the love of God abide in his heart? I cannot believe such a Christian would go to heaven being mean to people because by doing so he has done it unto Jesus. So in answer to your latter question I would say no. That Christian would not go to heaven. I think as believers of course we can miss it but the right thing to do is repent of that and then return to what we know is right.
I know of a story of a man who was a Christian and had money but refused to help a family he knew because the father was taken to drinking. He used the bible verse if a man won't work neither shall he eat. He let that family go without and didn't offer any help. He died. I read about it in a book. It grieved me deeply. * I don't want to debate about any of this I just wanted to share my thoughts with you because you seemed sincere in asking.
No offense BD, but are you obsessed with music? Half of your posts are links to Youtube about some song or another! Again, no offense.
Guess I shouldn't be one to talk, being as my sig is a lengthy quote from a song but...
No offense BD, but are you obsessed with music? Half of your posts are links to Youtube about some song or another! Again, no offense.
Guess I shouldn't be one to talk, being as my sig is a lengthy quote from a song but...
Half? Really?
You might want to count again.
Not that I believe you did so when you made your pronouncement.
Guess I shouldn't be one to talk, being as my sig is a lengthy quote from a song but...
Half? Really?
You might want to count again.
Not that I believe you did so when you made your pronouncement.
Really? Is it less... or more. Either way, yeah I didn't count. My estimate was based on personal experience. Sorry, no offence intended.
Guess I shouldn't be one to talk, being as my sig is a lengthy quote from a song but...
Half? Really?
You might want to count again.
Not that I believe you did so when you made your pronouncement.
Really? Is it less... or more. Either way, yeah I didn't count. My estimate was based on personal experience. Sorry, no offence intended.
I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.
I know plenty of good, kind atheists (most of them are nicer people than the Catholics I know) and I was wondering about them getting to heaven. Pretend there was a hypothetical atheist named... Michael. Michael donated almost everything he had to the poor, keeping only just enough to survive on. Never did he have anything nice or luxurious or fancy. He had loads of friends because he was kind to everyone. But every day, he denied the existence of God. One sad day, Michael died of, I don't know, heart disease. Would he go to heaven even though he constantly proclaimed that God (and Satan) did not exist?
This is all completely hypothetical, of course.
Half? Really?
You might want to count again.
Not that I believe you did so when you made your pronouncement.
Really? Is it less... or more. Either way, yeah I didn't count. My estimate was based on personal experience. Sorry, no offence intended.
Oh, is that how that works? Make another little dig, then apologize? Brilliant.
I'll have to remember that one, you sly dog.
I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.
I know plenty of good, kind atheists (most of them are nicer people than the Catholics I know) and I was wondering about them getting to heaven. Pretend there was a hypothetical atheist named... Michael. Michael donated almost everything he had to the poor, keeping only just enough to survive on. Never did he have anything nice or luxurious or fancy. He had loads of friends because he was kind to everyone. But every day, he denied the existence of God. One sad day, Michael died of, I don't know, heart disease. Would he go to heaven even though he constantly proclaimed that God (and Satan) did not exist?
This is all completely hypothetical, of course.
Why don't you as the One who makes the decision on it?
Half? Really?
You might want to count again.
Not that I believe you did so when you made your pronouncement.
Really? Is it less... or more. Either way, yeah I didn't count. My estimate was based on personal experience. Sorry, no offence intended.
Now that I think about it, you're right. Sorry. You do, however, post the most Youtube links I've ever seen.
Really? Is it less... or more. Either way, yeah I didn't count. My estimate was based on personal experience. Sorry, no offence intended.
Oh, is that how that works? Make another little dig, then apologize? Brilliant.
I'll have to remember that one, you sly dog.
Usually, I hate the English language. The few times I like it are when it enables me to simultaneously insult and compliment someone whilst sounding relatively innocent. You really should try it sometime, though.
Oh, is that how that works? Make another little dig, then apologize? Brilliant.
I'll have to remember that one, you sly dog.
Usually, I hate the English language. The few times I like it are when it enables me to simultaneously insult and compliment someone whilst sounding relatively innocent. You really should try it sometime, though.
I just did.
Really? Is it less... or more. Either way, yeah I didn't count. My estimate was based on personal experience. Sorry, no offence intended.
Now that I think about it, you're right. Sorry. You do, however, post the most Youtube links I've ever seen.
Okay. Click on my name, and on my page you will see "User lists" under the kung fu bunnies. Click on Add to Ignore and et voila!! No more Youtube affronts.
Now that I think about it, you're right. Sorry. You do, however, post the most Youtube links I've ever seen.
Okay. Click on my name, and on my page you will see "User lists" under the kung fu bunnies. Click on Add to Ignore and et voila!! No more Youtube affronts.
Would that block all your posts, or just links?
No. And that is not hypothetical.
Michael disregarded the instructions included in the remission of sins before you can go to heaven clause. Works are not an adequate remover of sin. Pure blood is the only spot remover we have at our disposal. Michael chose to disregard the gift. His choice.
Will his punishment be a severe as an atheist that lived a lawless, reckless damaging life? Probably not, but it was his decision to take the chance.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
No man, sadly includes Michael, and the blame can not be laid on his Father, who not only made it clear, but included the remedy. Michael will plead his case at the White Throne Judgment. His Judge will be the most compassionate man on earth. Here's hoping Michael throws himself on the mercy of the court.
