How to get to heaven...

Drake_Roberts

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I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.

I know plenty of good, kind atheists (most of them are nicer people than the Catholics I know) and I was wondering about them getting to heaven. Pretend there was a hypothetical atheist named... Michael. Michael donated almost everything he had to the poor, keeping only just enough to survive on. Never did he have anything nice or luxurious or fancy. He had loads of friends because he was kind to everyone. But every day, he denied the existence of God. One sad day, Michael died of, I don't know, heart disease. Would he go to heaven even though he constantly proclaimed that God (and Satan) did not exist?


This is all completely hypothetical, of course.
 

The Irish Ram

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No. And that is not hypothetical.
Michael disregarded the instructions included in the remission of sins before you can go to heaven clause. Works are not an adequate remover of sin. Pure blood is the only spot remover we have at our disposal. Michael chose to disregard the gift. His choice.
Will his punishment be a severe as an atheist that lived a lawless, reckless damaging life? Probably not, but it was his decision to take the chance.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
No man, sadly includes Michael, and the blame can not be laid on his Father, who not only made it clear, but included the remedy. Michael will plead his case at the White Throne Judgment. His Judge will be the most compassionate man on earth. Here's hoping Michael throws himself on the mercy of the court.:)
 
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Mr. H.

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Heaven and Hell are man-contrived notions. Nothing else. The physical universe exists of, and is governed by, matter physics and mathematics. The one true spirit is long gone yet ever-present... in matter, physics, and mathematics.
 
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Drake_Roberts

Drake_Roberts

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Heaven and Hell are man-contrived notions. Nothing else. The physical universe exists of, and is governed by, matter physics and mathematics. The one true spirit is long gone yet ever-present... in matter, physics, and mathematics.
Wow. I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once, I actually don't want the opinions of atheists right now.

Do you know what branch of Christianity people should actually found? One where God is a representation of math and science, and that all the miracles in the Bible were either made up or were possible through some advanced knowledge of mathematics. I'd be curious to see how many atheists join. You could call it the "Church of Reason and Mathematics" or something.
 

Gracie

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I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.

I know plenty of good, kind atheists (most of them are nicer people than the Catholics I know) and I was wondering about them getting to heaven. Pretend there was a hypothetical atheist named... Michael. Michael donated almost everything he had to the poor, keeping only just enough to survive on. Never did he have anything nice or luxurious or fancy. He had loads of friends because he was kind to everyone. But every day, he denied the existence of God. One sad day, Michael died of, I don't know, heart disease. Would he go to heaven even though he constantly proclaimed that God (and Satan) did not exist?


This is all completely hypothetical, of course.
In my humble opinion, yes. He didn't need to believe in a god. The real God knew his heart.
 

theword

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I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.

I know plenty of good, kind atheists (most of them are nicer people than the Catholics I know) and I was wondering about them getting to heaven. Pretend there was a hypothetical atheist named... Michael. Michael donated almost everything he had to the poor, keeping only just enough to survive on. Never did he have anything nice or luxurious or fancy. He had loads of friends because he was kind to everyone. But every day, he denied the existence of God. One sad day, Michael died of, I don't know, heart disease. Would he go to heaven even though he constantly proclaimed that God (and Satan) did not exist?


This is all completely hypothetical, of course.
Yes he will, just like all the Christians who don't obey the commandments of God and worship false gods instead. For one thing, we all exist in heaven ever since we were created in the mind of our Creator. Christians don't know who we are or where we exist.
 
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Mr. H.

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Heaven and Hell are man-contrived notions. Nothing else. The physical universe exists of, and is governed by, matter physics and mathematics. The one true spirit is long gone yet ever-present... in matter, physics, and mathematics.
Wow. I can't believe I'm saying this, but for once, I actually don't want the opinions of atheists right now.

Do you know what branch of Christianity people should actually found? One where God is a representation of math and science, and that all the miracles in the Bible were either made up or were possible through some advanced knowledge of mathematics. I'd be curious to see how many atheists join. You could call it the "Church of Reason and Mathematics" or something.
I'm not an Atheist. Didn't you read my post?
 

theword

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In short...nobody speaks for God. Nobody writes for God.
Only us saints and prophets write for our Creator because we are His invisible knowledge that no man can ever see.
 

percysunshine

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How to get to heaven...

Logically, when headed towards Hell, make a U-turn.
 

skye

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How to get to Heaven I have no idea, but I do know how not get to Heaven..... :D:eusa_angel:



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuyCIXu8NOs]Dionne Warwick / You'll Never Get to Heaven (If You Break My Heart) - YouTube[/ame]
 

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BreezeWood

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the OuterWorld of the Everlasting exists for everyone - finding the key to freeing ones Spirit before their last breath is the goal if so desired ... and passing Judgement of worthiness as who they were.
 

mskafka

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My understanding of scripture, is that a person is held accountable for the amount of knowledge he has acquired. If he grows up never having been exposed to the Gospel, how can he be held accountable? I know that some churches preach the "age of accountability." And Catholics believe in original sin, if memory serves me right.

I was once asked a very similar question, by a friend who had no strong roots in any religion. She asked me about tribes in third-world countries, and whether or not they would be held to the same level of accountability....and if they would go to Hell, if not converted. My answer was no.

1. How can we expect people who can't read, to know scripture? Sure there are missionaries, but have they reached all of the indigenous people?
2. Is it possible (as George Burns stated in "Oh God!") that God reached out to every religion and culture in a way that was meaningful to each group of people: Buddhists, Hindus, Shinto, etc..?
3. Regarding science and a supreme being-I think there's room for both. Think big. Our bodies are basically a life, within a life, within a life. Break it down-organism, organ system, organ, tissue, cell, molecule, and atom. Does it go to infinity? Now start with the human body, and go up. When we go the other direction, does it go to infinity? Are we a miniscule part of something MUCH bigger?

No, I don't think that's my idea alone. Scientists obsessively study it, every day. You can be a Christian, and believe in science.
 
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theword

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the OuterWorld of the Everlasting exists for everyone - finding the key to freeing ones Spirit before their last breath is the goal if so desired ... and passing Judgement of worthiness as who they were.
The "breath of life" goes on forever but the flesh of this age remains in this age as it ends soon.

Job 33
1: "But now, hear my speech, O Job, and listen to all my words.
2: Behold, I open my mouth; the tongue in my mouth speaks.
3: My words declare the uprightness of my heart, and what my lips know they speak sincerely.
4: The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
5: Answer me, if you can; set your words in order before me; take your stand.
6: Behold, I am toward God as you are; I too was formed from a piece of clay.

Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The flesh of man and the spirit "breath of life" are two different things. The flesh stays in this age as it dies but the spirit of man goes on to the next age and will receive new flesh to experience the New Heaven and Earth.
 
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Drake_Roberts

Drake_Roberts

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No. And that is not hypothetical.
Michael disregarded the instructions included in the remission of sins before you can go to heaven clause. Works are not an adequate remover of sin. Pure blood is the only spot remover we have at our disposal. Michael chose to disregard the gift. His choice.
Will his punishment be a severe as an atheist that lived a lawless, reckless damaging life? Probably not, but it was his decision to take the chance.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
No man, sadly includes Michael, and the blame can not be laid on his Father, who not only made it clear, but included the remedy. Michael will plead his case at the White Throne Judgment. His Judge will be the most compassionate man on earth. Here's hoping Michael throws himself on the mercy of the court.:)
:eusa_eh:So...

An unjust and selfish person will reach heaven but the just and kind atheist won't? And the entire thing was hypothetical, except the part about me being bored in church.
 

Book of Jeremiah

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I was thinking of this story, Drake. It came to me while you were telling your story about the compassionate atheist. It reminds me of this story I heard once about a young diver who was stung by 5 boxer jelly fish. He dragged himself into the boat and somehow made it back to shore, then he made it to a little outdoor cafe and said he heard a voice telling him to humble himself and beg these men for a ride to the hospital..... so he begged these men to take him to the hospital but he could barely talk by then ( I am telling by memory so I am telling this from recollection ) and the men thought he was drunk. They laughed at him and refused to help. Finally he says he saw a taxi driver, he had no money but he begged the man for a ride to the hospital too.. he was refused again and felt great anger towards the man... then suddenly his friends appeared and rushed him to hospital... he said he heard a voice asking him would he be willing to forgive the men who refused him help? He said yes. He was a very kind man, a loving man but an atheist who had rejected his mothers faith in God. He said he then felt himself leave his body and enter into the presence of a light and such love as he had never encountered.. he said then he saw a different place of utter perfection, so beautiful he just wanted to step into it, it was another place like earth but far more beautiful and perfect in every way and he desired to go there and live.. God spoke to him and he immediately accepted that this was God and that he did accept Him as God. In that moment his understanding became very clear and he embraced Gods love with his whole heart. God said to him, it is up to you. You can go back or you can stay here. In that moment he wanted to say I will stay here! Then suddenly he realized his mother would be broken hearted not knowing the fate of her son and he said I want to stay but should go back. I wouldn't want my mother to live out her life not knowing what became of me. In that moment he returned back into his body and although he was announced dead - the doctor saw a part of his body move and called the nurses to rush him back into the room to continue giving him some antidote. He survived and I believe he is one of the only people in the world to have survived such a thing. Today he believes in God and shares his story with others. Is he telling the truth? I think he must be because how else would an atheist who was announced dead return to life a believer if he had not encountered God? So I believe God knew this young mans heart and knew that when he met Him he would accept him. I do not say this is the case for all atheists but in this mans case God's mercy is quite evident.

About your other question. I have not changed my mind about this although my christian brethren would disagree with me. If a Christian is mean and yet says he loves God what good is it? If he does many good works for his church and his fellow brethren but hates the lost how does the love of God abide in his heart? I cannot believe such a Christian would go to heaven being mean to people because by doing so he has done it unto Jesus. So in answer to your latter question I would say no. That Christian would not go to heaven. I think as believers of course we can miss it but the right thing to do is repent of that and then return to what we know is right.

I know of a story of a man who was a Christian and had money but refused to help a family he knew because the father was taken to drinking. He used the bible verse if a man won't work neither shall he eat. He let that family go without and didn't offer any help. He died. I read about it in a book. It grieved me deeply. * I don't want to debate about any of this I just wanted to share my thoughts with you because you seemed sincere in asking.
 

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