How to get to heaven...

[Chuckt]

Nope, religious acts, belief and deeds ARE required in order to get into heaven.

Five Reasons Why Good Works Cannot Save You


making-bible-truth-plain.org » Blog Archive » Five Reasons Why Good Works Cannot Save You

Of course they do. They are one of the most necessary components for salvation.

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

 

[Wry Catcher]

You cannot attain heaven, no matter how wonderful you are, without the grace of Christ.

That's the beginning and end of it.

And whether or not you think a saved man is "mean" is completely irrelevant, as he cannot earn his way to heaven by being kind. The only way he can get to heaven is by the blood of the lamb, and that will cover a multitude of sins, as it was meant to.

If his salvation is sincere, and he repents of his sins, he will attain heaven. Nobody is perfect...the point is that you strive to improve yourself and become more christlike. We all start from different places, so taking a snapshot of any one of us on any day will give you a whole world of sin...we are all sinful. That is the point.

"You cannot attain heaven, no matter how wonderful you are, without the grace of Christ." Another example of one who commits the deadly sin of Pride.

 

[koshergrl]

No, but whatever.

 

[theword]

He would hear the Gospel preached in the after life and make his choice whether to accept the proxy work done for Him through Jesus Christ or not.

The gospel won't be preached in the next age by us saints. Everyone will speak from the knowledge of God instead of just us saints and prophets during this age.

Jeremiah 31
31: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32: not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

 

[Vox]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Is a person saved before or without baptism? No more so than he is saved before or without faith!

Acts 3:22,23 says we must give heed to all things that Jesus teaches.

Salvation may be compared to following a recipe. To have the desired result, it is not enough to follow some or most of the steps. One must include all the ingredients.



[James 2:10; Revelation 22:18,19; Acts 20:27; Matthew 28:20; 4:4-7]

Mark 16:16 says "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

It says, "....he that believeth not shall be damned" and not "he that is not baptized and believeth not shall be damned" because it is belief that causes salvation and not baptism."

Faith without works is DEAD.
One can not be saved by faith only.
It does not work that way.
One can not be saved by deeds only, however, I am not as strict here - I do share the concept that the good people of other faiths can be saved, because the Mercy of God is omnipotent.

 

[Vox]

You cannot attain heaven, no matter how wonderful you are, without the grace of Christ.

That's the beginning and end of it.

And whether or not you think a saved man is "mean" is completely irrelevant, as he cannot earn his way to heaven by being kind. The only way he can get to heaven is by the blood of the lamb, and that will cover a multitude of sins, as it was meant to.

If his salvation is sincere, and he repents of his sins, he will attain heaven. Nobody is perfect...the point is that you strive to improve yourself and become more christlike. We all start from different places, so taking a snapshot of any one of us on any day will give you a whole world of sin...we are all sinful. That is the point.

"You cannot attain heaven, no matter how wonderful you are, without the grace of Christ." Another example of one who commits the deadly sin of Pride.

nope. you are just confused on the basics of Christian beliefs.

But whatever, indeed

 

[Vox]

Five Reasons Why Good Works Cannot Save You


making-bible-truth-plain.org » Blog Archive » Five Reasons Why Good Works Cannot Save You

Of course they do. They are one of the most necessary components for salvation.

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

Nope. You can not prove me wrong, because this is the fundamental divide between the way you believe and the way I believe. That is one of the Luther articles, as I recall and I do not share those.

And you are free to believe as you wish, but I am free as well.

And I won't stop preaching it, as ( this is my IMHO) it is a much wider base for the possibility of salvation for the good people of different faiths.
Yes, the Grace of Our Lord is needed for that. But His Grace is unmeasurable.

 

[Chuckt]

Of course they do. They are one of the most necessary components for salvation.

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

Nope. You can not prove me wrong, because this is the fundamental divide between the way you believe and the way I believe. That is one of the Luther articles, as I recall and I do not share those.

And you are free to believe as you wish, but I am free as well.

And I won't stop preaching it, as ( this is my IMHO) it is a much wider base for the possibility of salvation for the good people of different faiths.
Yes, the Grace of Our Lord is needed for that. But His Grace is unmeasurable.

I didn't ask you that.

 

[theword]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Is a person saved before or without baptism? No more so than he is saved before or without faith!

Acts 3:22,23 says we must give heed to all things that Jesus teaches.

Salvation may be compared to following a recipe. To have the desired result, it is not enough to follow some or most of the steps. One must include all the ingredients.



[James 2:10; Revelation 22:18,19; Acts 20:27; Matthew 28:20; 4:4-7]

Mark 16:16 says "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

It says, "....he that believeth not shall be damned" and not "he that is not baptized and believeth not shall be damned" because it is belief that causes salvation and not baptism."

Faith without works is DEAD.
One can not be saved by faith only.
It does not work that way.
One can not be saved by deeds only, however, I am not as strict here - I do share the concept that the good people of other faiths can be saved, because the Mercy of God is omnipotent.

Only the invisible spirit of a man is saved from their wicked flesh that deceived them during this age. All flesh will perish during this age and whatever flesh still exists on the last day of this age will perish all at once when the earth begins to shake violently.

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Five Reasons Why Good Works Cannot Save You


making-bible-truth-plain.org » Blog Archive » Five Reasons Why Good Works Cannot Save You

Of course they do. They are one of the most necessary components for salvation.

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

I don't believe Vox should listen to "your gospel", Chuck, because it isn't according to the bible. Not in the least. It is a false gospel and Vox would do very well to steer clear of it at all costs. I believe James 2: 14-16 is there for a reason. As the bible states let the word of God be true and every man ( who disagrees with it ) found a liar. I won't be discussing anything with you about James 2: 14-16 but I would like you to consider that Proverbs warns about the 7 things God hates and one of them is a Christian who causes divisions in the body of Christ by constantly telling other christians "how they are wrong" and anyone who disagrees is a false teacher. ( even though what you teach cannot be verified by scripture unless you twist it) I have noticed this is something you have been doing continually on this message board when it comes to other Christians and what they believe. The Holy Spirit is the teacher of the scriptures, Chuck. Not you. He can manage to teach Vox without your help. Thanks. - Jeri

 

[theword]

Of course they do. They are one of the most necessary components for salvation.

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

I don't believe Vox should listen to "your gospel", Chuck, because it isn't according to the bible. Not in the least. It is a false gospel and Vox would do very well to steer clear of it at all costs. I believe James 2: 14-16 is there for a reason. As the bible states let the word of God be true and every man ( who disagrees with it ) found a liar. I won't be discussing anything with you about James 2: 14-16 but I would like you to consider that Proverbs warns about the 7 things God hates and one of them is a Christian who causes divisions in the body of Christ by constantly telling other christians "how they are wrong" and anyone who disagrees is a false teacher. ( even though what you teach cannot be verified by scripture unless you twist it) I have noticed this is something you have been doing continually on this message board when it comes to other Christians and what they believe. The Holy Spirit is the teacher of the scriptures, Chuck. Not you. He can manage to teach Vox without your help. Thanks. - Jeri

All Christians preach a false gospel because they have no authority by our Creator to speak for Him. Only we saints are given authority to preach the true gospel, which is the voice of our Creator where the Truth can be heard by chosen believers. No unbeliever an hear our Creator speak to them through the gospel that only us saints can preach.

 

[percysunshine]

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

I don't believe Vox should listen to "your gospel", Chuck, because it isn't according to the bible. Not in the least. It is a false gospel and Vox would do very well to steer clear of it at all costs. I believe James 2: 14-16 is there for a reason. As the bible states let the word of God be true and every man ( who disagrees with it ) found a liar. I won't be discussing anything with you about James 2: 14-16 but I would like you to consider that Proverbs warns about the 7 things God hates and one of them is a Christian who causes divisions in the body of Christ by constantly telling other christians "how they are wrong" and anyone who disagrees is a false teacher. ( even though what you teach cannot be verified by scripture unless you twist it) I have noticed this is something you have been doing continually on this message board when it comes to other Christians and what they believe. The Holy Spirit is the teacher of the scriptures, Chuck. Not you. He can manage to teach Vox without your help. Thanks. - Jeri

All Christians preach a false gospel because they have no authority by our Creator to speak for Him. Only we saints are given authority to preach the true gospel, which is the voice of our Creator where the Truth can be heard by chosen believers. No unbeliever an hear our Creator speak to them through the gospel that only us saints can preach.

You Saints have an awesome football team.

 

[Vox]

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

Nope. You can not prove me wrong, because this is the fundamental divide between the way you believe and the way I believe. That is one of the Luther articles, as I recall and I do not share those.

And you are free to believe as you wish, but I am free as well.

And I won't stop preaching it, as ( this is my IMHO) it is a much wider base for the possibility of salvation for the good people of different faiths.
Yes, the Grace of Our Lord is needed for that. But His Grace is unmeasurable.

I didn't ask you that.

Chuck, I don't want to engage in the discussion which is pointless and divisive.
And on a lot of other matters we agree.

 

[Vox]

Mark 16:16 says "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

It says, "....he that believeth not shall be damned" and not "he that is not baptized and believeth not shall be damned" because it is belief that causes salvation and not baptism."

Faith without works is DEAD.
One can not be saved by faith only.
It does not work that way.
One can not be saved by deeds only, however, I am not as strict here - I do share the concept that the good people of other faiths can be saved, because the Mercy of God is omnipotent.

Only the invisible spirit of a man is saved from their wicked flesh that deceived them during this age. All flesh will perish during this age and whatever flesh still exists on the last day of this age will perish all at once when the earth begins to shake violently.

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19: The earth is utterly broken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.
20: The earth staggers like a drunken man, it sways like a hut; its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will not rise again.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

oh, please, the gnosticism was defeated long time ago

and I find it amazing that you use the "false Christian gospel" when it fits you

 

[Chuckt]

Of course they do. They are one of the most necessary components for salvation.

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

Vox,

If I proved you wrong on that verse, would you stop preaching it and believe my gospel according to the Bible or would you listen to your priest over me?

Simple honest question.

Chuck

I don't believe Vox should listen to "your gospel", Chuck, because it isn't according to the bible. Not in the least. It is a false gospel and Vox would do very well to steer clear of it at all costs. I believe James 2: 14-16 is there for a reason. As the bible states let the word of God be true and every man ( who disagrees with it ) found a liar. I won't be discussing anything with you about James 2: 14-16 but I would like you to consider that Proverbs warns about the 7 things God hates and one of them is a Christian who causes divisions in the body of Christ by constantly telling other christians "how they are wrong" and anyone who disagrees is a false teacher. ( even though what you teach cannot be verified by scripture unless you twist it) I have noticed this is something you have been doing continually on this message board when it comes to other Christians and what they believe. The Holy Spirit is the teacher of the scriptures, Chuck. Not you. He can manage to teach Vox without your help. Thanks. - Jeri

Jeri,

Graham from England (another board) said I broke James 2:14-16 and I shared it with Brother Daniel who knows at least two years or Greek or more and didn't have any criticism for me. I believe the teaching I haven't shared is rock solid. I've been saving it for a book. I've been holding it back partly because Christians might try to steal it and I had one user following me around on the internet trying to see if I would post it. I've held it back because I don't want to damage the church but I know if I publish it, there is no way out for most Christians to debate but I do want some input from responsible pastors.

You wanted me to stop talking to you but here you are replying to me. You asked me to stop "stalking" you but you were the one to send me emails after you told me to stop talking to you. I don't know how I am a stalker on a public forum but if you don't want someone to talk to you then you bear the responsibility of not talking to me.

Chuck

 

[theword]

Nope. You can not prove me wrong, because this is the fundamental divide between the way you believe and the way I believe. That is one of the Luther articles, as I recall and I do not share those.

And you are free to believe as you wish, but I am free as well.

And I won't stop preaching it, as ( this is my IMHO) it is a much wider base for the possibility of salvation for the good people of different faiths.
Yes, the Grace of Our Lord is needed for that. But His Grace is unmeasurable.

I didn't ask you that.

Chuck, I don't want to engage in the discussion which is pointless. And on a lot of other matters we agree.

Did God say it takes two sinners to agree on what is the Truth or not? Or was the Truth spoken by His true saints that the Roman government killed before they formed the Vatican and changed all the laws of God that the saints spoke from?

 

[Chuckt]

Nope. You can not prove me wrong, because this is the fundamental divide between the way you believe and the way I believe. That is one of the Luther articles, as I recall and I do not share those.

And you are free to believe as you wish, but I am free as well.

And I won't stop preaching it, as ( this is my IMHO) it is a much wider base for the possibility of salvation for the good people of different faiths.
Yes, the Grace of Our Lord is needed for that. But His Grace is unmeasurable.

I didn't ask you that.

Chuck, I don't want to engage in the discussion which is pointless and divisive.
And on a lot of other matters we agree.

Please, just answer the question.

 

[Gracie]

This is all so confusing. I was baptized, but was I really? I was dunked, and a bunch of prayers said over me, and I was told I was now "saved" and I would be filled with glory and the love of God...didn't I feel different already? I nodded. Oh yes. I felt wonderful. Um. No. I felt relieved I would not be stung forever and ever by scorpions and be torn to pieces over and over again in this place called hell...cuz that is what they said would happen if I were not "saved". I think I was about 12. Give or take. Did I feel different after the dunking? Nope.

With that said, I have always believed in God. Even when younger than the dunking. I would write God childish notes and tape Dear God letters on the wall. One day I taped a dollar bill from my piggy bank cuz I wanted to give Him a present. Next morning it was still there but I figured he didn't need it. I think I was about 6ish at that time. And today, at 61, I still believe in God. So was I truly baptized? And if not, since it was done because I was afraid of what they told me would happen to me if I wasn't, did it count in the eyes of God? Or is just believing in Him enough?

I don't torture animals. I don't steal. I don't murder. I don't con people. I don't go out of my way to be cruel. I try to do as Jesus taught. I am not perfect. I made and make mistakes. But I give to those less fortunate than I, I share, I rarely ask for something and prefer to give than get. I think I am doing ok. But according to this one or that one, that group or this group, that religion vs another religion...it is all different answers. Which leads me to believe what I believe...that God knows your heart more than you do or anyone else does. And if you die, are a good person, try the best you can, then yes...God will receive you. And hell is not a place of neverending torture and pain. My God would not do that to His children. They are just...absent from His presence. But they have to be REALLY bad to be in that void without his light.

Probably didn't make sense, but if I try to make sense of it all...I'd probably go crazy. Or be crazier than some think I already am.

 

[Chuckt]

This is all so confusing. I was baptized, but was I really? I was dunked, and a bunch of prayers said over me, and I was told I was now "saved" and I would be filled with glory and the love of God...didn't I feel different already? I nodded. Oh yes. I felt wonderful. Um. No. I felt relieved I would not be stung forever and ever by scorpions and be torn to pieces over and over again in this place called hell...cuz that is what they said would happen if I were not "saved". I think I was about 12. Give or take. Did I feel different after the dunking? Nope.

With that said, I have always believed in God. Even when younger than God. I would write him childish notes and tape Dear God letters on the wall. One day I taped a dollar bill from my piggy bank cuz I wanted to give Him a present. Next morning it was still there but I figured he didn't need it. I think I was about 6ish at that time. And today, at 61, I still believe in God. So was I truly baptized? And if not, since it was done because I was afraid of what they told me would happen to me if I wasn't, did it count in the eyes of God? Or is just believing in Him enough?

I don't torture animals. I don't steal. I don't murder. I don't con people. I don't go out of my way to be cruel. I try to do as Jesus taught. I am not perfect. I made and make mistakes. But I give to those less fortunate than I, I share, I rarely ask for something and prefer to give than get. I think I am doing ok. But according to this one or that one, that group or this group, that religion vs another religion...it is all different answers. Which leads me to believe what I believe...that God knows your heart more than you do or anyone else does. And if you die, are a good person, try the best you can, then yes...God will receive you. And hell is not a place of neverending torture and pain. My God would not do that to His children. They are just...absent from His presence. But they have to be REALLY bad to be in that void without his light.

Probably didn't make sense, but if I try to make sense of it all...I'd probably go crazy. Or be crazier than some think I already am.

Gracie,

It is pretty simple. If you believe that Jesus died in your place for your sins, was buried and rose again then that is enough faith to save you from hell and give you new eternal life. It pretty much sums up the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15.

I'm not trying to put a trip on you or anything. Just giving you the basics.

Chuck

 

[Vox]

I didn't ask you that.

Chuck, I don't want to engage in the discussion which is pointless and divisive.
And on a lot of other matters we agree.

Please, just answer the question.

WHICH one? that you are going to prove me wrong? No, you won't.

I already stated above, that I do not consider English translations to be the most perfect ones.

When I refer to the phrase I have it in my head in my native language.

So you can not prove me wrong using problems with English variations as those are not the ones I refer to.
I just quote it here in English