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Thanks for the suggestion, Irish. Yes, I am skeptical. I am also not wanting to read a book put together by man for man, of what another man said and wrote down but may have had some kind of agenda and left crucial things out. And maybe that is what is wrong with the whole thing. Why so many wars are fought, so much division, so many different "churches" that supposedly follow Christ. Because it all ISN'T THERE. Maybe we don't know squat about what it says because we are not meant to know. Except for the agendas of whomever put that book together, claimed it was God's word, then left the ceiling high other "reports" there to be burned, destroyed or left to turn to dust.
I know this disappoints you Irish, and I am sorry. But I cannot put much faith into a book such as that.
Kinda off topic...sorta.
But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?
Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.
Just something to think about.
there are plenty of stories written throughout the ages. You know, writers did not appear in the XIX century.
Does not mean everything written has to be believed.
Obviously there are stories which suit people more than others
Do you question who killed Julius Caesar? How do you know about the event?
Where is the skepticism of the men who described the death of Caesar? There is more written about Christ than Julius.
The disciples started preaching Jesus as soon as He died, returned, and ascended. They were eye witnesses. Their accounts spread quickly.
When the events they described took place, the city they took place in was packed and overflowing with pilgrims. What you won't find are their denials or disputing of the events described in the Gospels. There should have been many rebuttals as the pilgrim's returned to their own lands. To the contrary, there were droves of converts instead.
If you read that your neighbor just made an astounding trip to Mars, and the media was all over it, wouldn't you be inclined to tell the reporters that he was actually in the Bahamas on vacation?
Such a claim about Christ's return should have been met with stories to the contrary. Instead we have confirmation from the most unlikely source. The Temple Priests.
Thanks for the suggestion, Irish. Yes, I am skeptical. I am also not wanting to read a book put together by man for man, of what another man said and wrote down but may have had some kind of agenda and left crucial things out. And maybe that is what is wrong with the whole thing. Why so many wars are fought, so much division, so many different "churches" that supposedly follow Christ. Because it all ISN'T THERE. Maybe we don't know squat about what it says because we are not meant to know. Except for the agendas of whomever put that book together, claimed it was God's word, then left the ceiling high other "reports" there to be burned, destroyed or left to turn to dust.
I know this disappoints you Irish, and I am sorry. But I cannot put much faith into a book such as that.
No Gracie, I am not disappointed. I have watched your journey and know your own curiosity and the work God is doing in you until the Day of the Lord, will lead you right where you need to be. There is enough documentation out there for those who seek it. And you are a seeker.
Have you read what the priest's said they saw that 3rd day? Not in the Bible, but is compelling testimony in the records of antiquity. It was quite a day in the Temple!
What is wrong with Luke?
Nothing. Irish was just suggesting which of the Gospel's to start with if you care about Jesus and not the religion that goes with it. Luke does not work as well as John does for that purpose. In fact, Luke is probably the worst of the four in that regard.
I didn't say the religion that goes with it. I said religion. You don't need a church to find Christ. You do need a Bible however, to tell you who He is, what He said, what He did, who the Church is, and His doctrine. The rest will fall into place.
If you want to know Christ, read John. I would suggest that to anyone who wants an understanding of Christ, but has been soured by "religion". Redemption comes from Christ, not the Methodists, or Catholics or the Presbyterians. Know Him and you will become His Church.
The King James Bible is very close to the original, < which when you start to learn more, you will be visiting to make sure the full meaning of the text is revealed. If you are so studious that you want perfection in understanding, buy a Bible that also has the Greek and Hebrew texts included.
But for starters, just search out Jesus. For that the NKJ is fine.
Kinda off topic...sorta.
But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?
Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.
Just something to think about.
there are plenty of stories written throughout the ages. You know, writers did not appear in the XIX century.
Does not mean everything written has to be believed.
Obviously there are stories which suit people more than others
Do you question who killed Julius Caesar? How do you know about the event?
Where is the skepticism of the men who described the death of Caesar? There is more written about Christ than Julius.
The disciples started preaching Jesus as soon as He died, returned, and ascended. They were eye witnesses. Their accounts spread quickly.
When the events they described took place, the city they took place in was packed and overflowing with pilgrims. What you won't find are their denials or disputing of the events described in the Gospels. There should have been many rebuttals as the pilgrim's returned to their own lands. To the contrary, there were droves of converts instead.
If you read that your neighbor just made an astounding trip to Mars, and the media was all over it, wouldn't you be inclined to tell the reporters that he was actually in the Bahamas on vacation?
Such a claim about Christ's return should have been met with stories to the contrary. Instead we have confirmation from the most unlikely source. The Temple Priests.
there are plenty of stories written throughout the ages. You know, writers did not appear in the XIX century.
Does not mean everything written has to be believed.
Obviously there are stories which suit people more than others
Do you question who killed Julius Caesar? How do you know about the event?
Where is the skepticism of the men who described the death of Caesar? There is more written about Christ than Julius.
The disciples started preaching Jesus as soon as He died, returned, and ascended. They were eye witnesses. Their accounts spread quickly.
When the events they described took place, the city they took place in was packed and overflowing with pilgrims. What you won't find are their denials or disputing of the events described in the Gospels. There should have been many rebuttals as the pilgrim's returned to their own lands. To the contrary, there were droves of converts instead.
If you read that your neighbor just made an astounding trip to Mars, and the media was all over it, wouldn't you be inclined to tell the reporters that he was actually in the Bahamas on vacation?
Such a claim about Christ's return should have been met with stories to the contrary. Instead we have confirmation from the most unlikely source. The Temple Priests.
oh, I absolutely agree
You almost quoted my mom who uses to say - if the say that the horse of Alexander was named Bucephalus - everybody believes the second they read about it and never even think to question it
On the same token, what would somebody stand to gain by lying about Jesus? Everlasting fame and billions of followers for millennia to come.
On the same token, what would somebody stand to gain by lying about Jesus? Everlasting fame and billions of followers for millennia to come.
Money if they are good enough about it.
Spiritual control.
Being in front of people.
Business contacts.
Not only was spreading the Gospel not a money maker, it was responsible for the deaths of those doing the teaching and those doing the listening. That should have put an end to Jesus' ministry as just another false Messiah, but even His death or the death of His followers could convince the masses to stop following Him. Rows and rows of believers on crosses as far as the eye could see. How much did the mother make when she and her child were hoisted up in a net in the Coliseum and gored to death by bulls with metal points on their horns?
Christ was a phenomenon. Thousands upon thousands literally followed Him where ever He walked. 5 thousand, 10 thousand could be seen walking behind Him. They would nearly crush Him just to touch His garments. If He was near water He had to be put in a boat to keep from being pushed into the sea by the crowds. Touching Him meant healing. Thieves started giving back money they stole, with interest. Those who were dead, rose. The blind saw, the cripples walked. Leper clean, health restored, forgiveness freely handed out.
No convincing was necessary. His reputation, His love was abundant when He was here then, and will be abundant when He returns. Money and fame were never His thing. Tending to His Father's sheep was His goal. Saving the sheep was His mission.
Vox, I posted that record of the Temple priests somewhere here. I'll look it up and post it for you.
Drake start a thread of glaring contradictions in the Bible and let's see if we can't address those contradictions. I find that if something doesn't seem to gel, further study is required.
Take Goliath for instance. David killed Goliath, yet you will find in subsequent Bible verses the Goliath was killed by others. Seems contradictory until you do you homework.
David killed Goliath. He only needed one stone to do it. And yet David picked up five stones, because Goliath had 4 Goliath brothers, who subsequently met the same fate as the Goliath that David slew.
Contradictions usually means lack of pertinent information necessary to come to a viable conclusion.
Do you question who killed Julius Caesar? How do you know about the event?
Where is the skepticism of the men who described the death of Caesar? There is more written about Christ than Julius.
The disciples started preaching Jesus as soon as He died, returned, and ascended. They were eye witnesses. Their accounts spread quickly.
When the events they described took place, the city they took place in was packed and overflowing with pilgrims. What you won't find are their denials or disputing of the events described in the Gospels. There should have been many rebuttals as the pilgrim's returned to their own lands. To the contrary, there were droves of converts instead.
If you read that your neighbor just made an astounding trip to Mars, and the media was all over it, wouldn't you be inclined to tell the reporters that he was actually in the Bahamas on vacation?
Such a claim about Christ's return should have been met with stories to the contrary. Instead we have confirmation from the most unlikely source. The Temple Priests.
oh, I absolutely agree
You almost quoted my mom who uses to say - if the say that the horse of Alexander was named Bucephalus - everybody believes the second they read about it and never even think to question it
Why should somebody lie about Bucephalus? What would somebody stand to gain by that?
On the same token, what would somebody stand to gain by lying about Jesus? Everlasting fame and billions of followers for millennia to come.
And, to use Mertex's argument against you, in what ways are Jesus Christ the Messiah and Savior and Alexander the Great's horse relatable?
On the same token, what would somebody stand to gain by lying about Jesus? Everlasting fame and billions of followers for millennia to come.
Money if they are good enough about it.
Spiritual control.
Being in front of people.
Business contacts.
oh, I absolutely agree
You almost quoted my mom who uses to say - if the say that the horse of Alexander was named Bucephalus - everybody believes the second they read about it and never even think to question it
Why should somebody lie about Bucephalus? What would somebody stand to gain by that?
On the same token, what would somebody stand to gain by lying about Jesus? Everlasting fame and billions of followers for millennia to come.
And, to use Mertex's argument against you, in what ways are Jesus Christ the Messiah and Savior and Alexander the Great's horse relatable?
you are too ignorant to understand the point of comparison
On the same token, what would somebody stand to gain by lying about Jesus? Everlasting fame and billions of followers for millennia to come.
Money if they are good enough about it.
Spiritual control.
Being in front of people.
Business contacts.
In first century under the persecutions of Nero and/or others?
toy have a really perverted sense of humor
As you said, nobody knows what Judas thought in his final seconds. How can you know he did not repent? Maybe God told him the only way to save his soul was to sacrifice his life in payment. Hell, Jesus let himself be killed so that we all could be saved of our sins, how is that any different than suicide?
Romans 5:18-19 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Thanks for the suggestion, Irish. Yes, I am skeptical. I am also not wanting to read a book put together by man for man, of what another man said and wrote down but may have had some kind of agenda and left crucial things out. And maybe that is what is wrong with the whole thing. Why so many wars are fought, so much division, so many different "churches" that supposedly follow Christ. Because it all ISN'T THERE. Maybe we don't know squat about what it says because we are not meant to know. Except for the agendas of whomever put that book together, claimed it was God's word, then left the ceiling high other "reports" there to be burned, destroyed or left to turn to dust.
I know this disappoints you Irish, and I am sorry. But I cannot put much faith into a book such as that.
No Gracie, I am not disappointed. I have watched your journey and know your own curiosity and the work God is doing in you until the Day of the Lord, will lead you right where you need to be. There is enough documentation out there for those who seek it. And you are a seeker.
Have you read what the priest's said they saw that 3rd day? Not in the Bible, but is compelling testimony in the records of antiquity. It was quite a day in the Temple!
do you have any links? plz
"When we were coming from Galilee, we met at the Jordan a very great multitude of men, fathers who had been some time dead... And behold, suddenly there appeared coming down from Mount Amalech a very great number, as it were 12 thousand men who had risen with the Lord. And although we recognized many there, we were not able to say anything to them for fear and the angelic vision; and we stood at a distance gazing and hearing them, how they walked along singing praises, and saying, "The Lord has risen again from the dead, as he had said; let us all exult and be glad, since he reigns forever."
Hob, Christ's longevity was already solidified. He didn't have to become human to obtain everlasting. He already had it. He became human to take our place regarding the death sentence associated with sin.
