How do you explain Natural Rights to a Liberal who believes rights depend on Govt?

[emilynghiem]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equally.

 

[frigidweirdo]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equally.

Maybe you learn some stuff first.

What are "rights"?
We can look at the progression of "rights" from the Magna Carta in 1215 to the English Bill of Rights and then the US Bill of Rights.

"Rights" are merely deciding who gets power.

They're not given by God. They're a human construct. We know this, they didn't exist before 1215, and even then "rights" were merely the rich dudes in England taking power from the King who had had absolute power. The English Bill of Rights also appeared when the monarchy was weak and they they could take that power.

The US Bill of Rights was written by humans, taking power away from the Federal government in the US.

All your rights are dependent upon POWER. Those who have power can do whatever they can get away with. If there are limits on those powers, they can try and erode those powers. Look at Xi in China. He's taken ALL THE POWER. He didn't have it all, he had a lot, and he locked up all his opponents under the guise of "anti-corruption" and now he's got it all.
The same could EASILY happen in the US. What Trump is doing is eroding confidence in the institution of the government, if people rise up and overthrow the government, who's going to take the power? Chances are it'd be taken by a small, select group of people who'd use that power to do whatever they liked.

 

[task0778]

There's a discussion to be had about natural rights vs civil rights, but with respect to abortion it comes down to whether or not a fetus should have a natural right to life. Even though the unborn have a separate and distinct DNA and are obviously composed of living human tissue, there are many who believe that the mother has the right to terminate that life for any reason whatsoever, including inconvenience. And at any point up to birth, as if the act of giving birth confers personhood; I suspect that quite a few expectant mothers and fathers would be quite vocal about that. So, do we as a society value the sanctity of life or not? I don't know how anyone can say yes to that and then support abortion.

 

[forkup]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equally.

I think you don't really understand your friends' point and are trying to pose it as a philosophical issue in order to not engage. I'm just guessing of course. It is also possible of course I'm missing your point.

Unless I'm mistaken your friend is talking about womans right in the context of abortion?

You are suggesting this is a question of self-governance? The only problem is that outlawing abortion, something the REPUBLICAN party has agitated for using various means. Has resulted in the overturning of Roe v Wade. Taking away the ability to self govern what happens to a womans body in certain states from the woman and putting it in the hands of state governments.

Hence the question, and why I believe your argument is non-sensical. Not trying to be mean but your answer seems to fortify the argument AGAINST Republicans.

 

[IM2]

Liberals don't believe that. So how about conservatives stop trying to think they can say what liberals believe when the garbage conservatives believe is wack.

 

[BULLDOG]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equall

I was under the impression that you were a logical person. It doesn't matter if you consider a right to be a natural right, If a government can deny the ablity to exercize that right, it is useless to claim it as a right. Luther didn't bestow any right for the religious to study for themselves. He just gave them the ability to practice the right they always had by utilizing the printing press. If someone can deny you the ability to practise a right, is it still a right?

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equally.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

There's a discussion to be had about natural rights vs civil rights, but with respect to abortion it comes down to whether or not a fetus should have a natural right to life. Even though the unborn have a separate and distinct DNA and are obviously composed of living human tissue, there are many who believe that the mother has the right to terminate that life for any reason whatsoever, including inconvenience. And at any point up to birth, as if the act of giving birth confers personhood; I suspect that quite a few expectant mothers and fathers would be quite vocal about that. So, do we as a society value the sanctity of life or not? I don't know how anyone can say yes to that and then support abortion.

If a leftist was pregnant with a wanted child, you bet they'd use a different definition of "baby".

Rules that change constantly are not rules.


.

 

[Pete7469]

How do you explain ANYTHING to someone determined to believe in something regardless if it's obviously WRONG?

How do you get someone who believes violent crime will be reduced if gun control laws are passed to acknowledge criminals BY DEFINITION disregard gun laws and all the other laws against violent behavior, murder, rape, robbery ETC?

How do you get people who believe CO2 is a toxic pollutant that will cause a climate catastrophe and will destroy the planet to stop exhaling? When you explain to them that all human endeavors combined contribute less than 3% of all atmospheric concentrations of CO2, that CO2 itself is responsible for less than 3% of the so called "Green House Effect" and that if humans were removed from the equation entirely it would make absolutely no difference at all they will stammer, spin, deflect, or ignore you and walk away declaring: "The science is settled!!!".

Personally, I want such "people" to get abortions. There is something genetically wrong with people who can not observe reality and draw the correct conclusions based on the simplest logic.


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[OhPleaseJustQuit]

How do you explain ANYTHING to someone determined to believe in something regardless if it's obviously WRONG?

How do you get someone who believes violent crime will be reduced if gun control laws are passed to acknowledge criminals BY DEFINITION disregard gun laws and all the other laws against violent behavior, murder, rape, robbery ETC?

How do you get people who believe CO2 is a toxic pollutant that will cause a climate catastrophe and will destroy the planet to stop exhaling? When you explain to them that all human endeavors combined contribute less than 3% of all atmospheric concentrations of CO2, that CO2 itself is responsible for less than 3% of the so called "Green House Effect" and that if humans were removed from the equation entirely it would make absolutely no difference at all they will stammer, spin, deflect, or ignore you and walk away declaring: "The science is settled!!!".

Personally, I want such "people" to get abortions. There is something genetically wrong with people who can not observe reality and draw the correct conclusions based on the simplest logic.


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You don't. You just keep them from hurting themselves or others until they snap out of it or die.

Time to open up all those derelict mental institutions that haven't been used since the adults actually ran the country.


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[Penelope]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equally.

The US supreme court gone as low as they could be.

 

[Curried Goats]

How do you explain ANYTHING to someone determined to believe in something regardless if it's obviously WRONG?

The question is can you spot the obvious? Doubtful since you're one of these morons who thinks more guns produces less gun violence despite America having more guns than any other first world nation and surprise surprise, more gun violence.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equally.

All rights are dependent on govt. It is ridiculious to argue otherwise.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

All rights are dependent on govt. It is ridiculious to argue otherwise.

The hubris of a Brit explaining American governance to Americans.

Completely incorrectly!

I'd suggest some ESL classes to sharpen up your understanding of how to read English, but...................................

No wonder we whipped your sorry asses!




.

 

[Cellblock2429]

A friend was alarmed I would endorse any kind of Conservative or Republican narrative or agenda seen as a threat to women's rights. How do you explain that if you already depend on govt for rights then you are not free?

Doesn't real freedom mean you have rights that are "inalienable" i.e., with or without govt endorsing them.

I tried to respond as below.
Should I try harder to make the point that the way to protect and claim rights is to practice and enforce them directly?

How would you explain this in plain terms?

RE: "What rights of women are you willing to sacrifice by supporting Conservatives or Republicans pushing prolife laws"

Women and all other groups of people need to learn how to practice enforce and represent our own rights. It's called ownership. And self governance. Equal empowerment. Do you know how in church history, the masses used to be illiterate people who depended on priests to read, write and have authority over the laws -- until Luther insisted that people learn the laws directly and embrace authority of law through Jesus to connect with God directly by faith. NOT by relying on priests as the middleman between people and God because Jesus already fulfills that. Well today we're going through a similar Reformation where people assume equally authority and responsibility as the state. We learn the laws and embody them directly. With spiritual laws we the people become one as the church. With natural laws, Jesus also fulfills that path as Justice to bring peace. We all make this process of peace through justice happen equally.

/----/ This is what happens when you try to explain something to a Liberal.

 

[Curried Goats]

The hubris of a Brit explaining American governance to Americans.

Completely incorrectly!

I'd suggest some ESL classes to sharpen up your understanding of how to read English, but...................................

No wonder we whipped your sorry asses!

Maybe someone should explain to you what governance means, Dipshit.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

/----/ This is what happens when you try to explain something to a Liberal.

Now THAT is tweaking!

Keep that border open so that we can get even more good drugs into this country. Maybe the parasitic vermin will succeed in culling themselves.


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[Cellblock2429]

All rights are dependent on govt. It is ridiculious to argue otherwise.

/----/ We settled this in 1776.
Personal rights held by an individual which are not bestowed by law, custom, or belief, and which cannot be taken or given away, or transferred to another person, are referred to as “inalienable rights.” The U.S. Constitution recognized that certain universal rights cannot be taken away by legislation, as they are beyond the control of a government, being naturally given to every individual at birth, and that these rights are retained throughout life. To explore this concept, consider the following inalienable rights definition.

Inalienable Rights - Definition, Examples, Cases

Inalienable rights defined and explained with examples. Inalienable rights are not bestowed by man or law, and they cannot be taken away or nullified.

legaldictionary.net

 

[BluesLegend]

Doubtful since you're one of these morons who thinks more guns produces less gun violence despite America having more guns than any other first world nation and surprise surprise, more gun violence.

Criminals, murderers and rapists IGNORE your stupid shit gun control laws idiot.

OP how's that ^^^ in making your point in this thread.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Criminals, murderers and rapists IGNORE your stupid shit gun control laws idiot.

OP how's that ^^^ in making your point in this thread.

You're talking to a racist bot. Suggest you save your breath.


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