CDZ How do we prevent sociopaths from gaining power?

[BlackSand]

Yes, I should not have included a name. I thought it would not belong to anyone but I am from the UK and I just a bit of thought tells me it is different in the US. Thanks for not doing so yourself.

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The only difference is that I am trying to express how even the 'good' ones are sociopaths ...
I like what Winston Churchill accomplished, but there is no need to pretend he didn't demonstrate sociopathic tendencies at times ...
He had to in order to be effective.

Like the old adage of Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely ... When that is not actually the case.
It is a person's weakness that corrupt them ... Insecurities, Greed, Vanity or whatever.

Power simply allows their weaknesses, and the corruption born therein, to have a greater influence over a greater number of people.
The only way to effectively combat that ... Is to limit the power you grant your leaders.

A point our founders tried to breathe some air into ...
But still tends to get lost when people keep waiting for someone to tell them what to do, or for the government to save them.

.​

 

[Sandisk]

Simple - don't let anyone under an IQ of 110 vote.

It is a proven fact that the dumber people are - the easier they are to trick/con.

Smarter people are the ONLY ones who should be allowed to vote.

Anyone who disagrees is (probably) almost certainly stupid/mentally disturbed.

 

[BlackSand]

Anyone who disagrees is (probably) almost certainly stupid/mentally disturbed.

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What does your all powerful, extremely gracious and benevolent self plan to do with the
hundreds of millions of stupid and mentally disturbed individuals who are willing to do more than disagree with you?

Tell them again how smart you are, and that it is for their own good ... With your egotistical delusions of grandeur ...

.​

 

[alexa]

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The only difference is that I am trying to express how even the 'good' ones are sociopaths ...​

and here I disagree. I do accept that it would be unlikely for an empath to try and be President and I do accept that in the US people need to promise the rich to get the money they need to get elected so it is a flawed democracy but I also believe that there are decent people who get into power with the desire to do good. In fact before about 2,000 or so Politicians tried to present the population with an aspiration for a better quality of life which could be achieved. Sadly we are just so full of corruption at the moment it is difficult.

I like what Winston Churchill accomplished, but there is no need to pretend he didn't demonstrate sociopathic tendencies at times ...
He had to in order to be effective.

Like the old adage of Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely ... When that is not actually the case.
It is a person's weakness that corrupt them ... Insecurities, Greed, Vanity or whatever.

Power simply allows their weaknesses, and the corruption born therein, to have a greater influence over a greater number of people.
The only way to effectively combat that ... Is to limit the power you grant your leaders.​

A point our founders tried to breathe some air into ...
But still tends to get lost when people keep waiting for someone to tell them what to do, or for the government to save them.

​

​

[/QUOTE]

I agree with limiting the power. However the person who is incapable of empathy does not give any care to how s/he hurts others. The normal person on the street does. The normal politician does which makes them less likely to make bad decisions but the sociopath/the psychopath and the narcissist do not. They are incapable of feeling. If someone says something to them which would hurt an ordinary person at worse they are just angry. Because they do not feel they are unaware that other people have feelings which is what allows them to be so cruel.. They live to some extent in a different world in which the most important thing is to control. They believe they are God.

 

[there4eyeM]

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If you think you can do the job better ... Run for office.

.​

Visibly, the point has been mistaken.

 

[BlackSand]

However the person who is incapable of empathy does not give any care to how s/he hurts others.

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There are a lot of points I could have chosen to approach. but this is one where you may start to understand what I am saying.

Empathy is a good thing, it tends to serve us all well, and always deserves some application.
However ... An overindulgence of Empathy is not consistent with the tasks some leaders face.

Because a leader send troops into battle does not mean that they don't care for the individuals,
or the pain and suffering those troops will endure or cause ... Nor does it mean they lack Empathy.
The leader can be Empathic, but to accomplish the task at hand, they have to able to limit how they allow Empathy to influence their actions.

If a national leader was burdened with the task of handling everyday tragedy, and crisis the way a normal person would ...
They would spend their entire day in a circle singing Kumbaya and tying daisy chains, unable to face the tasks in front of them.

I keep trying to express that there isn't a national leader that isn't already a sociopath and a narcissist ...
They had to be when they stood in front of a mirror and saw themselves as President or whatever.

That's why I am often amazed people keep granting their leaders more and more power to fix things.
Who exactly do you care to imagine they actually are?

.​

 

[BlackSand]

Visibly, the point has been mistaken.

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You may have difficulties because you don't have the power to make things the way you would like them to be.
I simply offered you the suggestion that if you think it is worthwhile, become the sociopath it requires to actually make the changes you desire.

.​

 

[Blues Man]

This type cannot be hidden.

WHat type is that?

 

[BlackSand]

WHat type is that?

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It isn't whether or not it is hidden, it is how good they are at hiding it.
Wrap it all up in a promise for a better world at the hands of a benevolent rulers.

Implementation and execution tend to be where they screw things up.
That's where their weaknesses start to influence their actions and at our consequence.

.​

 

[alexa]

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There are a lot of points I could have chosen to approach. but this is one where you may start to understand what I am saying.

Empathy is a good thing, it tends to serve us all well, and always deserves some application.
However ... An overindulgence of Empathy is not consistent with the tasks some leaders face.

Because a leader send troops into battle does not mean that they don't care for the individuals,
or the pain and suffering those troops will endure or cause ... Nor does it mean they lack Empathy.
The leader can be Empathic, but to accomplish the task at hand, they have to able to limit how they allow Empathy to influence their actions.

If a national leader was burdened with the task of handling everyday tragedy, and crisis the way a normal person would ...
They would spend their entire day in a circle singing Kumbaya and tying daisy chains, unable to face the tasks in front of them.

I keep trying to express that there isn't a national leader that isn't already a sociopath and a narcissist ...
They had to be when they stood in front of a mirror and saw themselves as President or whatever.

That's why I am often amazed people keep granting their leaders more and more power to fix things.
Who exactly do you care to imagine they actually are?

.​

With empathy as I said I think it would be unlikely that an empath would in todays world try to be President. Most people while feeling empathy some of the time do not feel it all the time. The big difference between them and the sociopath types is that they are capable of feeling, they are capable of empathy where the sociopath is not however much s/he might like to try it out. Even though they are incapable of feeling it they do know how to pretend they are so can confuse people. I get that you believe that there are no national leaders who are not already a sociopath and that may be so. It may be that the people you have in power now are all narcissists but if they are they will have been that before they were elected and I just do not accept that everyone is in politics because they want to be God and control - there would be murder!!!!!

 

[alexa]

The other thing we need to think about is the choice we have made to ignore feeling which includes empathy and say we are just being rational. We have developed in a very one sided way and a lot could be changed if we began to work on accepting out feelings and working with them. I am not suggesting we 'act out' our emotions but if we want to be whole beings we need to get to know them. It would probably be easier to spot the psychopath type then.

 

[badbob85037]

What is the empirical metric for empathy? How is it measured? With what instruments?

If you come across someone whom you feel doesn't have enough empathy, or doesn't empathize in the way you prefer they do, how precisely do you "control" them?

The fact is, all you know about this man, or any other man in the public eye, is precisely what you've been told by others.

How do I know? For 3 months he has been threating to nuke the world. Then now it has been confirmed he has cancer His since I am going to die the world must die with me. It doesn't take knowing anything about him to know he is shit. Just how well do you know this devil to stick up for his sorry ass? You must be a democRat.

 

[BlackSand]

The other thing we need to think about is the choice we have made to ignore feeling which includes empathy and say we are just being rational. We have developed in a very one sided way and a lot could be changed if we began to work on accepting out feelings and working with them. I am not suggesting we 'act out' our emotions but if we want to be whole beings we need to get to know them. It would probably be easier to spot the psychopath type then.

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Ruling with emotions, restricts the ability of the ruler, and specifically to their emotions or the emotions they can solicit from others.
Emotions cannot be legislated, so it doesn't matter if you want to be practical or pragmatic ... Because it doesn't make a difference.

I know some people think they are demigods, and if everyone shared their emotions and worshipped them, the world would be a better place ...
Most of them are Leaders, supported by the people that still cannot figure out what they keep getting wrong ...

.​

 

[there4eyeM]

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You may have difficulties because you don't have the power to make things the way you would like them to be.
I simply offered you the suggestion that if you think it is worthwhile, become the sociopath it requires to actually make the changes you desire.

.​

That is what more than one sociopath has justified actions with. Naturally, one of this type in power is the very problem and it will not cure itself.

 

[there4eyeM]

Ruling by emotions is not a question. Ruling while lacking capacity for necessary human emotions is.

 

[alexa]

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Ruling with emotions, restricts the ability of the ruler, and specifically to their emotions or the emotions they can solicit from others.​

I see a difference between feelings and emotions. Feelings are what some people call gut feelings but I would just say you feel them in your body and trust them. Emotions are generally a reaction to something which has happened. That can be negative in that it can be something which affected you in the past and you have not worked through or it can be a correct reaction to the current situation. That one usually has feeling attached to it.

I would never suggest ruling on your emotions!! My suggestion was that we might get value, at best even have no more need of war, by becoming aware of what our feelings/emotions are and working through them. We have been shutting them out as if they have no value and while I will not disagree that going around acting out your emotions would not lead to a happy world, getting to know them, understanding them and how to work with and when to trust them could take us a long way.

Emotions cannot be legislated, so it doesn't matter if you want to be practical or pragmatic ... Because it doesn't make a difference.

I know some people think they are demigods, and if everyone shared their emotions and worshipped them, the world would be a better place ...
Most of them are Leaders, supported by the people that still cannot figure out what they keep getting wrong ...

.​

as above. You misunderstood what I was saying. I hope I have made it a bit clearer above. We are feeling people. While we are denying that we are denying an incredible gifted and creative part of humanity. The narcissist psychopath etc cannot feel. The can have emotions and go crazy with them but they cannot feel.

 

[Bezukhov]

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Putin is another profound example of the tragedy that occurs when an inhuman personality rises to power. The history of our race is one of similar catastrophic individuals. We have the means to identify such disorders. We have the interest to exclude them from gaining control. This is not a matter of ideology, religion, race, ethnicity or gender (though, obviously, men preponderate in the historical records). The sub-category of our fellow humans that lack the capacity to feel empathy must be controlled; that is the proposition.

When you have a superficial society that idolizes popularity over merit, you get sociopaths.

When you have a society that is spoonfed their daily political talking points, gathering information via social media, and generally opposed to research/reading, you get sociopaths.

 

[BlackSand]

I see a difference between feelings and emotions. Feelings are what some people call gut feelings but I would just say you feel them in your body and trust them. Emotions are generally a reaction to something which has happened. That can be negative in that it can be something which affected you in the past and you have not worked through or it can be a correct reaction to the current situation. That one usually has feeling attached to it.

I would never suggest ruling on your emotions!! My suggestion was that we might get value, at best even have no more need of war, by becoming aware of what our feelings/emotions are and working through them. We have been shutting them out as if they have no value and while I will not disagree that going around acting out your emotions would not lead to a happy world, getting to know them, understanding them and how to work with and when to trust them could take us a long way.

as above. You misunderstood what I was saying. I hope I have made it a bit clearer above. We are feeling people. While we are denying that we are denying an incredible gifted and creative part of humanity. The narcissist psychopath etc cannot feel. The can have emotions and go crazy with them but they cannot feel.

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If you want to destroy a Nation ... Encourage it to destroy itself in the name of Humanity.

.​

 

[$ecular#eckler]

How do we prevent sociopaths from gaining power?
That is and was the question.

Personality disorders are not supposed to matter, because of the separation of government powers. But the problem is that ideological alignment permeates the separation, and prompts the partisan quests to populate the three parts with politically aligned personnel (partisan legislators, crony bureaucrats, activist judges).