How do we fix this?

[daveman]

That's not what I suggested. I simply pointed out the difficulty of self governance when a large constituency of the POT believes in nonsense.

You may have a point. For instance, there are people who believe Biden is doing a great job as President.

 

[daveman]

You folks are proving my point with every post you write.

Who gets the authority to define truth? And how can you guarantee that authority will not be used for political gain? How do you know that authority will not be used against you when the other team is in power?

Answer these questions.

 

[berg80]

True. But you don’t even have questions how so many Mail in ballots came in after hours? Even in states like Georgia where the counting had supposedly been stopped for the night? You have no interest in that at all?

Lawsuits were filed, recounts were performed. There was no bamboo, no Italian satellites changing votes, no issue with Dominion machines, no fraud of significance. Trump just lost because he was a lousy prez.

 

[g5000]

If you look at the total vote counts from 2000-2020 you will see that 2020 has an unusually high number of voters. It looks like a good voter fraud case.

That just shows how much Trump was hated.

Voters were also more easily able to vote by absentee ballot than in previous elections, and that increased voter turnout.

There's no mystery here. No fraud. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Democrats "fact check" themselves and then claim that their facts are true LOL.
We fact checked it with snopes LOL

 

[berg80]

You may have a point. For instance, there are people who believe Biden is doing a great job as President.

View attachment 657582

That's not the issue. The issue is so many Trump supporters believing a demonstrable lie. Actually, many.

 

[1srelluc]

Voter fraud is already a felony. County governments are free to prosecute.

And they are.....They both tried to plea down but to no avail.

 

[berg80]

The Democrats "fact check" themselves and then claim that their facts are true LOL.
We fact checked it with snopes LOL

When you have no facts to support your case disparaging the sources of info proving you wrong are all you're left with.

 

[g5000]

I don't give a damn who said it. If it was the most secure election in history, Democrats should have had no problem proving it.

But no, they've done everything they can to keep the process hidden. And they wonder why people don't trust them.

Argument from ignorance. The burden of proof is on those who claim fraud. And the losers failed. Catastrophically failed. Laughably failed.

 

[g5000]

True. But you don’t even have questions how so many Mail in ballots came in after hours? Even in states like Georgia where the counting had supposedly been stopped for the night? You have no interest in that at all?

These claims have been debunked countless times.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

When you have no facts to support your case disparaging the sources of info proving you wrong are all you're left with.

thank for proving my point

 

[berg80]

Argument from ignorance. The burden of proof is on those who claim fraud. And the losers failed. Catastrophically failed. Laughably failed.

Over and over they failed. So the only thing left to do was stop Biden's certification by force.

 

[yidnar]

I was just watching some video of deluded Trump supporters who were at the Capital on 1/6. Repeating all the usual myths about voting machines being hooked up to the internet, votes gone missing, votes being changed, a rehash of the false accusations Trump made for months. A rehash of the untruths pushed on Faux about the Dominion machines. Not to pick on Faux. Many right wing media outlets reinforced the charges of voter fraud either directly or by innuendo. Many still are.

Millions of Trump's base supporters still believe this, as Bill Barr said, "bullshit."

We can't have a significant percent of the population be detached from reality if we are going to successfully govern ourselves. Self governance requires hard work, participation, being informed on the issues no matter what your position on them is. It requires informed debate so people get a chance to hear both sides of the issues we need to design solutions for.

At this point, we have become dysfunctional in our collective ability to debate issues because we can't agree what the facts are. How can we shore up our election procedures to ensure fairness if we can't agree what the problems are? How can we solve the problem of climate change if we can't even agree it's a problem?

I offer no solutions because I am pessimistic about the efficacy of available remedies. The reason, the mixed messages from media outlets leaving their audiences with a choice of which narrative to consume and therefore believe. One side saying Trump won the election, climate change in the era we now live in is not man made, gun control equates to gun confiscation, and more outrageous falsehoods like China owns Biden, Obama is a Muslim, and Dem's eat babies. Unfortunately, many on the Right have become the political equivalent of National Enquirer readers. Attracted by sensationalism and absent critical thought.

For those optimists out there who disagree with me, I invite you to read the replies from the conservatives on the board.

after the Russia collusion lie propagated by the msm and dem leaders for 4 yrs in order to destroy and remove a sitting POTUS can you blame people for be distrustful ? dems sowed the seeds of distrust .... wheres the pee tape commie ?

 

[berg80]

thank for proving my point

If you have facts that refute the ones presented please post them.

 

[g5000]

The Democrats "fact check" themselves and then claim that their facts are true LOL.
We fact checked it with snopes LOL

Nope. Trump's Attorney General of the United States fact checked Trump's claims and he found Trump to be completely "detached from reality".

Everyone who worked for Trump tried to get him to accept his loss. Even his own kids. They eventually gave up and walked away, leaving only a drunken Rudy Giuliani and a batshit crazy Sidney Powell and crooked John Eastman to carry his piss.

Have you been watching the hearings?

Probably not. You don't want your gaslit delusions shattered.

 

[berg80]

after the Russia collusion lie propagated by the msm and dem leaders for 4 yrs in order to destroy and remove a sitting POTUS can you blame people for be distrustful ? dems sowed the seeds of distrust .... wheres the pee tape commie ?

Not a lie and beside the point.

Because I see references made all the time to Schiff's claim he had evidence of collusion, I thought I'd address it.

In other words, Special Counsel Mueller’s inability to prove a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russian government in no way “exonerates” the president of any wrongdoing. The president’s wrongdoing has already been proven. A four-page letter to Congress written by an attorney general Trump appointed because his first attorney general wouldn’t do enough to undercut the investigation doesn’t nullify any of the examples Schiff listed on Thursday.

“I do not think that conduct, criminal or not, is OK,” concluded Schiff. “The day we do think that’s OK is the day we will look back and say that is the day America lost its way.”

Adam Schiff Presents His 'Evidence of Collusion'​

The House Intelligence Committee chairman and foe of President Trump delivered a fiery speech on Thursday morning

www.rollingstone.com

He left out this.

US Treasury Provides Missing Link: Manafort’s Partner Gave Campaign Polling Data to Kremlin in 2016​

The Treasury Department says Konstantin Kilimnik “provided the Russian Intelligence Services with sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy."

www.justsecurity.org

So the answer to the question about whether Schiff lied about his claim is no. He's right about something else too. America, or at least some Americans, have lost their way. They remain loyal to a traitor who attempted a coup.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

We can't have a significant percent of the population be detached from reality if we are going to successfully govern ourselves

No. We can't. You people are deluded. The sooner we rid the country of the Biden cult, the faster we can undo all the damage done

 

[g5000]

Over and over they failed. So the only thing left to do was stop Biden's certification by force.

Yep. A coup.

 

[g5000]

after the Russia collusion lie propagated by the msm and dem leaders for 4 yrs in order to destroy and remove a sitting POTUS can you blame people for be distrustful ? dems sowed the seeds of distrust .... wheres the pee tape commie ?

The people telling Trump he lost were his own people. Republicans he appointed/hired.

His advisors, his daughter, his campaign manager, his Attorney General, and many others.

Trump was either "detached from reality", or he was willfully blind. If willfully blind, that is prosecutable.

 

[berg80]

No. We can't. You people are deluded. The sooner we rid the country of the Biden cult, the faster we can undo all the damage done

Easy to write, but can you show evidence of it like Trump supporter's cult-like belief in the Big Lie?