How did we get here?

[pknopp]

Obama ran on Change. He was not. Trump ran on changing . He did not.

I understand voting for Obama the first time. I do not the second. I understand people voting for Trump the first time. I do not the second.

Once you realize the person you thought knew what he was doing just turned out to be another liar, dump them.

I voted for Trump twice. I like his "promises kept" list.
His personality sucks, but I agree with most of his policies, except for the personal tax cut.
The democrats have no policies that I agree with.

and that is fair....

and that doesn't mean Democrats are evil and want to rape all of your kids just because they want to expand Social Security and make sure everyone has adequate healthcare...

But, if you were honest.........it seems for the past 3 or 4 republican presidential campaigns/administrations --- the views of those who once supported them have not aged well......do you think the same will be said with Trump years from now??

Will people open up and be more honest about it or will they continue to claim he was the greatest leader in human history like they do now?
View attachment 442185

1. I think you refer to "Medicare for all", not expanded SS.
2. Healthcare needs to be paid for, its not free. More and better jobs with healthcare is the answer.
3. IMHO Trump's new "populism" is here to stay, replacing "conservatism", which is another name for "protect the wealthy".
4. What does "open up and be more honest" even mean?? We will vote for the populist candidates over the socialist candidates. Simple.

Trump gave billions of taxpayers dollars to corporate farms. What do you call that? Free market capitalism?

That has been going on for decades. Congress writes the spending bills not POTUS.

Trump did the billions in socialism for the corporate farms.

 

[Mac-7]

You still can not condemn corporations.

I would like to see some condemnation of china to go with your hate for American companies

but considering the stupid rotten trade deal we have with china what choice do many US companies have except to move factories to china?

tell me what you would have done instead

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Sometimes those votes aren't always for a candidate, but against the other candidate,


For many years I had voted based on the issues and whether I thought the candidate would be a good leader in times of trouble and would also take into consideration of the VP pick......regardless of party affiliation. That all started to change after Clinton.....who at the time I had voted for both times. I was less concerned about what he did in his personal time than I was about what he did on the national stage.

I voted for Bush Jr the first time, but against his competition the second term. And the same goes for Obama.

In 2016, I was hoping the choices would have been anyone else from either side, but one thing was for certain I would NOT vote for Hillary, come h*ll or high water. Did not like her one bit and that went back to when they left the WH and she wanted to take the furnishings because they were broke.....uuuuuhhhh NO, you don't do that, they are not yours but the peoples.

My other choice would either to stay home or vote Trump but I got sucked into the MSM polls saying she was ahead by a landslide....so I figured I couldn't stay home & not vote at all which was my preference.. It was too important of an election to sit back and let others decide, even though my one vote wouldn't make a difference, I had to atleast put in my 2 cents and ended up holding my nose to vote Trump, against her. Ultimately, I'm not sorry I did.

While I can't really stand the man, don't agree with alot of his antics and wish he would just shut the f*ck up, I do appreciate alot of what he has done for this country that the Dems and lefties and MSM have either completely ignored or twisted to fit their own narrative, yet flat refuse to acknowledge any part in it. Their hypocrisy has been an eye opener and same goes for Republican politicians.

Our government system is no longer controlled by the people, but the people are controlled by the government and that has probably been happening for many years, I just hadn't seen it or been willing to admit it until now (last 4 years)



'How did we get here'???? We, as in all of us, let it happen by trusting those in government to represent the people, when in fact they were playing their own games to deceive us for their own gains with no thought to the people, the Constitution, or the Country.

Politicians know many do this. They understand that they can lie, cheat and steal and fail miserably as long as they can convince people they haven't failed as bad as he other side.

That's not how we should vote. The lesser evil is still evil.

True enough..........but the stay home alternative isn't a better option in most cases either

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Trump did the billions in socialism for the corporate farms.

Which in turn had created alot of jobs for the people in that trickle down effect.....but what did the Dems do??? They fund our enemies.

 

[pknopp]

You still can not condemn corporations.

I would like to see some condemnation of china to go with your hate for American companies

but considering the stupid rotten trade deal we have with china what choice do many US companies have except to move factories to china?

tell me what you would have done instead

I did.

 

[Issa]

Before we move forward we need to take a minute to figure out how we have ended up here. And the truth is. Everybody is sort of right. And everyone is sort of wrong.

Trump was elected because people in enough states agreed that the Status Quo was fucked. We knew there were problems not addressed by Washington. We knew there were issues with Departments doing things they shouldn’t. And we thought Trump saw this too. And let’s face it. Hillary was a terrible candidate.

So what went wrong? A little truth does not mean every extension and extreme variation is true. And what was worse was Trump did nothing to fix any of the problems. His fanboys blamed the Deep State. Imaginary enemies. The real enemy of Trump was Trump.

The truth is nobody is ready on day one. No President hits the ground on day one ready to do the job. There is a learning curve. And it is steep.

The first thing you have to learn is to listen to your advisors. Hire good ones and listen. Get people who are experienced in their fields. Being in charge does not mean you need to know more than anyone else. It means you are willing to listen. Make decisions. And seek responsibility for those decisions.

You do not need to do what the advisors say. But you do need to listen and consider. Here Trump screwed up. He did not like anyone who disagreed with him. And that is a problem.

The next thing you have to realize is that your communications people are responsible for getting your message out there. Let’s discuss how that works. A position on an issue is decided. The staff hold meetings. Lawyers are consulted to make sure the position is legal or justifiable. Experts are consulted to insure there is a foundation for the position.

As your Press Secretary goes out to announce this position, you get on Twitter and announce you are doing the exact opposite.

Trump had Brain Storms. Brain Waves. And when he had one he tweeted about it. And then he is angry and so are you when all the people consulted disagree and point out it is wrong.

Now. A smart person would have learned by March of 2016 that you needed to dump Twitter. A moderately intelligent person would have figured it out a few months later. Not Trump. He stayed with it despite the perpetual disaster it led to.

It want beautiful. It wasn’t fantastic. And the only thing huge was the groans by people who wished he would get off of Twitter.

Chasing a rabbit. I still think it should be called a Twit. A Runner runs. A baker bakes. Therefor a Twitter twits.

Next problem. Propaganda. Both sides did it. They set up the election where only by cheating could they possibly lose. It is a contest. And in every contest things end up in unpredictable situations and results.

Now even longtime Republicans are horrified at what has resulted. The siege of the Capital has shocked the nation. The Fanboys double down on the Propaganda. It is all the left. It is all ANTIFA. It is BLM. It is everyone except the RW loons photographed and recorded doing the activity. They were duped. Deceived by those clever ANTIFA folks. They were just going along.

Trump was never a savior. He was right. There were and are problems in Washington. He just wasn’t the one to fix it. Biden isn’t either.

Now the nuts are being rounded up. And perhaps we managed to dodge the bullet this time. But folks. Be a little more cynical. Doubt those who seem to be reinforcing your ideals. Chances are you are both nuttier than a Fruitcake in May

Simple answer: the decline of American society as a whole. Trump and others would have 0 chance in making it to any office in many countries. I think leadership reflects the base.

 

[pknopp]

Sometimes those votes aren't always for a candidate, but against the other candidate,


For many years I had voted based on the issues and whether I thought the candidate would be a good leader in times of trouble and would also take into consideration of the VP pick......regardless of party affiliation. That all started to change after Clinton.....who at the time I had voted for both times. I was less concerned about what he did in his personal time than I was about what he did on the national stage.

I voted for Bush Jr the first time, but against his competition the second term. And the same goes for Obama.

In 2016, I was hoping the choices would have been anyone else from either side, but one thing was for certain I would NOT vote for Hillary, come h*ll or high water. Did not like her one bit and that went back to when they left the WH and she wanted to take the furnishings because they were broke.....uuuuuhhhh NO, you don't do that, they are not yours but the peoples.

My other choice would either to stay home or vote Trump but I got sucked into the MSM polls saying she was ahead by a landslide....so I figured I couldn't stay home & not vote at all which was my preference.. It was too important of an election to sit back and let others decide, even though my one vote wouldn't make a difference, I had to atleast put in my 2 cents and ended up holding my nose to vote Trump, against her. Ultimately, I'm not sorry I did.

While I can't really stand the man, don't agree with alot of his antics and wish he would just shut the f*ck up, I do appreciate alot of what he has done for this country that the Dems and lefties and MSM have either completely ignored or twisted to fit their own narrative, yet flat refuse to acknowledge any part in it. Their hypocrisy has been an eye opener and same goes for Republican politicians.

Our government system is no longer controlled by the people, but the people are controlled by the government and that has probably been happening for many years, I just hadn't seen it or been willing to admit it until now (last 4 years)



'How did we get here'???? We, as in all of us, let it happen by trusting those in government to represent the people, when in fact they were playing their own games to deceive us for their own gains with no thought to the people, the Constitution, or the Country.

Politicians know many do this. They understand that they can lie, cheat and steal and fail miserably as long as they can convince people they haven't failed as bad as he other side.

That's not how we should vote. The lesser evil is still evil.

True enough..........but the stay home alternative isn't a better option in most cases either

There are always alternatives. Do you not think the Jill Stein vote sent a message? Democrats while not doing the right thing at least didn't try and bring Hillary back.

 

[pknopp]

Trump did the billions in socialism for the corporate farms.

Which in turn had created alot of jobs for the people in that trickle down effect.....but what did the Dems do??? They fund our enemies.

Worthless statement. The argument is that was socialism. Support it all you want just don't pretend it's not socialism.

 

[Mac-7]

I did.

Tell me again

 

[pknopp]

I did.

Tell me again

See Germany.

 

[Mac-7]

Simple answer: the decline of American society as a whole.

Aka the rise of diversity

 

[Mac-7]

I did.

Tell me again

See Germany.

I’m asking you not the germans

 

[Indeependent]

Trump changed nothing.

I think he did

before trump china got nothing but adoring treatment in America

“Whats not to like about china?,” globalists asked

now you complain about so much criticism of china

You still can not condemn corporations.

Why not?
The essence of a corporation is profit.

 

[theHawk]

Business wants the cheap labor and the 1.5 billion people market. Tariffs do not change that.

So you are okay with our businesses using their cheap labor at the expense of US jobs?

It's like I've been talking to a wall. Up is down and down is up.

Businesses want their 1.5 billion people market. I suppose so, but at what cost? Why would Chinese pay more for US made goods? If those US goods are actually made in China, why would they bother with the US company to begin with, they can make it on their own.

Make it on their own. We have nothing to do or say do anything about that.

Then of course there is the fact that any business trying to sell their product in China must adhere to Chinese Communist censorship. Like media and entertainment, all have to kiss China’s ass, and impose the censorship of the CCP in order to be allowed in China. Like the NBA, where NBA owners and players are not allowed to criticize the CCP crackdown in Hong Kong, or to support pro-democracy protests. Of course only Mao ass-kissers on the left would support that.

China, China, China. China can do whatever they damn well please in their markets. Your worthless rants are meaningless. Tariffs changed none of that. Trump changed nothing.

And still you refuse to condemn any American business outside of the NBA. It's not hard to read into that.

In other words you’ve got no argument. “China can do whatever it wants”, umm yea, that doesn’t mean we have to do whatever they want.

In their country we do.

“Tariffs changed nothing”. Tariffs protect manufacturing and encourage domestic manufacturing. It’s a fact, that’s why China uses them, that’s why the EU uses them against the US. If they “change nothing” then why do other countries use them? How exactly did President Trump bring half a million manufacturing jobs back to the US?

You have no answer, no retarded leftwinger here has ever answered that question.

Hardly a left wing opinion.

How China won Trump's trade war and got Americans to foot the bill

Your article doesn’t address what I asked, why does China and the EU use tariffs if they “don’t work”. It’s another opinion piece by pro-Chinese business people who like using cheap Chinese slave labor.

 

[Issa]

Simple answer: the decline of American society as a whole.

Aka the rise of diversity

Lol you just proved my point.
America's strength was always in diversity.

 

[pknopp]

I did.

Tell me again

See Germany.

I’m asking you not the germans

I'm telling you. I'm not going to write policy. Germany has done it. Japan has done it. They have protected their jobs.

 

[Indeependent]

Simple answer: the decline of American society as a whole.

Aka the rise of diversity

Lol you just proved my point.
America's strength was always in diversity.

You mean slave labor.
Can you break down how inundating a nation with eternal low workers is making a nation strong?
For one thing, it stifles technological innovation.

 

[pknopp]

Trump changed nothing.

I think he did

before trump china got nothing but adoring treatment in America

“Whats not to like about china?,” globalists asked

now you complain about so much criticism of china

You still can not condemn corporations.

Why not?
The essence of a corporation is profit.

It's a race to the bottom. When the corporations strive for profit and nothing else they take the jobs to China. People here then have no jobs. Where does that end up?

 

[Indeependent]

I did.

Tell me again

See Germany.

I’m asking you not the germans

I'm telling you. I'm not going to write policy. Germany has done it. Japan has done it. They have protected their jobs.

And when Trump wanted to do that, you booed.

 

[Indeependent]

Trump changed nothing.

I think he did

before trump china got nothing but adoring treatment in America

“Whats not to like about china?,” globalists asked

now you complain about so much criticism of china

You still can not condemn corporations.

Why not?
The essence of a corporation is profit.

It's a race to the bottom. When the corporations strive for profit and nothing else they take the jobs to China. People here then have no jobs. Where does that end up?

Electing Trump who publicly called them out on it.