How did we get here?

[Rye Catcher]

Trump has destroyed many lives, their careers and the death of their loved ones based on putting his wants and needs first. He has alienated our allies, weakened our nation's standing as the longest living and lasting democratic republic in world history, and abused the highest office of trust and divided out nation into tribes, one of which vandalized our nation's capitol.

Can you be specific? All you have are these stupid generic statements, with nothing to back it up. Can you even name one of his policies that did any of these things?

Hint: a Tweet that hurts your feelings doesn’t count.

• List of Trump administration dismissals and resignations - Wikipedia
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-18000-false-or-misleading-claims-1170-days/
• Watch the Main St. Media which covered the Insurrection last Wednesday, the mob Trump incited and the deaths, injuries, thefts and vandalism based on his words.

I suspect you don't know what sophistry is, but you've used it and I don't buy it.

Sophistry is "the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

 

[Mac-7]

Companies sending jobs overseas.

Ok

how should biden put a stop to that?

 

[pknopp]

Trump changed nothing.

I think he did

before trump china got nothing but adoring treatment in America

“Whats not to like about china?,” globalists asked

now you complain about so much criticism of china

You still can not condemn corporations.

 

[pknopp]

Companies sending jobs overseas.

Ok

how should biden put a stop to that?

He won't. You should support that since you did under Trump.

Now if it was me, there would be huge taxes on the profits of U.S. companies that make their products overseas and then ships them back here.

 

[theHawk]

Business wants the cheap labor and the 1.5 billion people market. Tariffs do not change that.

So you are okay with our businesses using their cheap labor at the expense of US jobs?

It's like I've been talking to a wall. Up is down and down is up.

Businesses want their 1.5 billion people market. I suppose so, but at what cost? Why would Chinese pay more for US made goods? If those US goods are actually made in China, why would they bother with the US company to begin with, they can make it on their own.

Make it on their own. We have nothing to do or say do anything about that.

Then of course there is the fact that any business trying to sell their product in China must adhere to Chinese Communist censorship. Like media and entertainment, all have to kiss China’s ass, and impose the censorship of the CCP in order to be allowed in China. Like the NBA, where NBA owners and players are not allowed to criticize the CCP crackdown in Hong Kong, or to support pro-democracy protests. Of course only Mao ass-kissers on the left would support that.

China, China, China. China can do whatever they damn well please in their markets. Your worthless rants are meaningless. Tariffs changed none of that. Trump changed nothing.

And still you refuse to condemn any American business outside of the NBA. It's not hard to read into that.

In other words you’ve got no argument. “China can do whatever it wants”, umm yea, that doesn’t mean we have to do whatever they want.

“Tariffs changed nothing”. Tariffs protect manufacturing and encourage domestic manufacturing. It’s a fact, that’s why China uses them, that’s why the EU uses them against the US. If they “change nothing” then why do other countries use them? How exactly did President Trump bring half a million manufacturing jobs back to the US?

You have no answer, no retarded leftwinger here has ever answered that question.

 

[Mac-7]

So you are okay with our businesses using their cheap labor at the expense of US jobs?

No

he does not approve

but Pknop believes that joe biden whose crackhead son feeds his drug addiction through sweetheart deals with china will be the one to turn our American ship around

which is simply not going to happen

 

[pknopp]

Business wants the cheap labor and the 1.5 billion people market. Tariffs do not change that.

So you are okay with our businesses using their cheap labor at the expense of US jobs?

It's like I've been talking to a wall. Up is down and down is up.

Businesses want their 1.5 billion people market. I suppose so, but at what cost? Why would Chinese pay more for US made goods? If those US goods are actually made in China, why would they bother with the US company to begin with, they can make it on their own.

Make it on their own. We have nothing to do or say do anything about that.

Then of course there is the fact that any business trying to sell their product in China must adhere to Chinese Communist censorship. Like media and entertainment, all have to kiss China’s ass, and impose the censorship of the CCP in order to be allowed in China. Like the NBA, where NBA owners and players are not allowed to criticize the CCP crackdown in Hong Kong, or to support pro-democracy protests. Of course only Mao ass-kissers on the left would support that.

China, China, China. China can do whatever they damn well please in their markets. Your worthless rants are meaningless. Tariffs changed none of that. Trump changed nothing.

And still you refuse to condemn any American business outside of the NBA. It's not hard to read into that.

In other words you’ve got no argument. “China can do whatever it wants”, umm yea, that doesn’t mean we have to do whatever they want.

In their country we do.

“Tariffs changed nothing”. Tariffs protect manufacturing and encourage domestic manufacturing. It’s a fact, that’s why China uses them, that’s why the EU uses them against the US. If they “change nothing” then why do other countries use them? How exactly did President Trump bring half a million manufacturing jobs back to the US?

You have no answer, no retarded leftwinger here has ever answered that question.

Hardly a left wing opinion.

How China won Trump's trade war and got Americans to foot the bill

 

[pknopp]

So you are okay with our businesses using their cheap labor at the expense of US jobs?

No

he does not approve

but Pknop believes that joe biden whose crackhead son feeds his drug addiction through sweetheart deals with china will be the one to turn our American ship around

which is simply not going to happen

You have to resort to the rabbit hole. When you lose just make crap up.

 

[Mac-7]

Now if it was me, there would be huge taxes on the profits of U.S. companies that make their products overseas and then ships them back here.

That would drive US companies out of business entirely as the market was dominated by chinese brand names at lower prices

 

[pknopp]

Now if it was me, there would be huge taxes on the profits of U.S. companies that make their products overseas and then ships them back here.

That would drive US companies out of business entirely as the market was dominated by chinese brand names at lower prices

Those Chinese products are American products made in China. But yeah, they can choose. Bring the jobs back or pay huge taxes.

 

[Mac-7]

You have to resort to the rabbit hole. When you lose just make crap up.

You really dont know that joe biden is compromised through his crackhead son hunter and sweetheart deals with china?

 

[AMart]

How did we get here? Well Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex, JFK warned us his with secret societies speech, Kubrick did Eyes Wide Shut at the end of his career/life, Trump warned us about the Swamp and we found out that the DC swamp was spying on his campaign illegally ..... I could go on and on.....but the Global Corporations and International Bankers run the world and all of you people can be easily replaced.

And that is why I said Trump was never the Savior. Trump learned first hand what is going on daily. The Government spying on people. Did Trump declassify information pertaining to it? Exposing the criminal conduct to the people? Did he send legislation to Congress to end the practice? No. He named and shamed those who dared spy on him. Spying on the masses is fine. Thou Shall Not spy on Trump.

He did not want to end the practice. He wanted to control it. Use it. For his own gains.

Snowden did that. 1 President can't control the actions of thousands of corrupt government employees.

 

[Votto]

China kicked his ass.

Nonsense

it was quislings like you seeking the lowest possible price that empowered china and handcuffed America

from you Bloomberg link celebrating the growing trade deficit with china:

” Once China got the virus under control, demand for medical equipment and work-from-home gear expanded its trade surplus with the U.S. despite the levies.”

instead of US companies investing in America by making those products here they prefered to buy from china instead

So you note that nothing changed under Trump? Bravo. That has ALWAYS been the problem. The only way to address that is to address the businesses themselves. You expect China to turn business away? Also, these products bought from China are from US companies.

Things would have changed under Ron Paul, which is why he was ignored by the press



You see, those whom the media is preoccupied with, like Trump, should be viewed with suspicion because as the saying goes, any press is good press in terms of selling people to the public.

Things would have changed. It wasn't the press that ignored him. It was the electorate.

Nope. If you watched the video you would see that even though Ron Paul came in second or even first in certain primary states, he was completely ignored. They talked around him.

I submit that without help from the press, you can't win an election.

Our democracy is only as good as what the media wants.

The media didn't want Trump.

I disagree -- the media wanted Trump in so far as the media gave Trump more free airtime than any candidate in history.....I remember the 20 to 30 minutes the media would focus their cameras on an empty podium waiting for Trump to come out and say shit that they can feign outrage over...

The media just didn't think the country would dumb enough to vote Trump -- which is funny because it was the media who helped dumb those people down in the first place

They gave him all kinds of air time. That doesn't mean they wanted him. They figured that covering the clown show would help Hillary. It didn't because she was that bad.

No, they figured covering the clown show will get them eyeballs and they were right......

They also made sure to make a big deal of Hillary's emails and other made up scandals -- for the purposes of eye balls.....

It wasn't a made up scandal. It was an actual scandal.

Honestly, the media is insulated either way -- which is why they remain so dedicated to the bullshit "both sides do it" narrative....

It's harder to sell Viagra pills and reverse mortgages to 50% of people if you tell them they are the problem...

Are you arguing that the media shouldn't cover the lead candidate or scandals?

If the shit we have willfully normalized during the Trump years as "Trump being Trump" -- then yes, Hillary's emails are a made up scandal....

Hillary preceded Trump. I don't accept Trump and you should not be accepting what Hillary did. Without Hillary, there is no Trump. Many of us simply were not going to accept a lying, war mongering, wall street bought and paid for candidate.

And the media shouldn't cover the news as "Candidate A wants to overthrow a free and fair election by inciting an insurrectionist siege of the Capitol" -- "Candidate B said something about nice about the black lives matter movement" --- guess both sides are the same....

They aren't

By and large the organization of both sides are the same.

And had the media allow the Biden/Hunter scandal to come out, those polled said they would have voted differently.

That is what the Swamp learned and how they adjusted to putting into power corrupt politicians.

 

[pknopp]

You have to resort to the rabbit hole. When you lose just make crap up.

You really dont know that joe biden is compromised through is crackhead son hunter and sweetheart deals with china?

He likely is. I didn't vote for him.

 

[Indeependent]

Before we move forward we need to take a minute to figure out how we have ended up here. And the truth is. Everybody is sort of right. And everyone is sort of wrong.

Trump was elected because people in enough states agreed that the Status Quo was fucked. We knew there were problems not addressed by Washington. We knew there were issues with Departments doing things they shouldn’t. And we thought Trump saw this too. And let’s face it. Hillary was a terrible candidate.

So what went wrong? A little truth does not mean every extension and extreme variation is true. And what was worse was Trump did nothing to fix any of the problems. His fanboys blamed the Deep State. Imaginary enemies. The real enemy of Trump was Trump.

The truth is nobody is ready on day one. No President hits the ground on day one ready to do the job. There is a learning curve. And it is steep.

The first thing you have to learn is to listen to your advisors. Hire good ones and listen. Get people who are experienced in their fields. Being in charge does not mean you need to know more than anyone else. It means you are willing to listen. Make decisions. And seek responsibility for those decisions.

You do not need to do what the advisors say. But you do need to listen and consider. Here Trump screwed up. He did not like anyone who disagreed with him. And that is a problem.

The next thing you have to realize is that your communications people are responsible for getting your message out there. Let’s discuss how that works. A position on an issue is decided. The staff hold meetings. Lawyers are consulted to make sure the position is legal or justifiable. Experts are consulted to insure there is a foundation for the position.

As your Press Secretary goes out to announce this position, you get on Twitter and announce you are doing the exact opposite.

Trump had Brain Storms. Brain Waves. And when he had one he tweeted about it. And then he is angry and so are you when all the people consulted disagree and point out it is wrong.

Now. A smart person would have learned by March of 2016 that you needed to dump Twitter. A moderately intelligent person would have figured it out a few months later. Not Trump. He stayed with it despite the perpetual disaster it led to.

It want beautiful. It wasn’t fantastic. And the only thing huge was the groans by people who wished he would get off of Twitter.

Chasing a rabbit. I still think it should be called a Twit. A Runner runs. A baker bakes. Therefor a Twitter twits.

Next problem. Propaganda. Both sides did it. They set up the election where only by cheating could they possibly lose. It is a contest. And in every contest things end up in unpredictable situations and results.

Now even longtime Republicans are horrified at what has resulted. The siege of the Capital has shocked the nation. The Fanboys double down on the Propaganda. It is all the left. It is all ANTIFA. It is BLM. It is everyone except the RW loons photographed and recorded doing the activity. They were duped. Deceived by those clever ANTIFA folks. They were just going along.

Trump was never a savior. He was right. There were and are problems in Washington. He just wasn’t the one to fix it. Biden isn’t either.

Now the nuts are being rounded up. And perhaps we managed to dodge the bullet this time. But folks. Be a little more cynical. Doubt those who seem to be reinforcing your ideals. Chances are you are both nuttier than a Fruitcake in May

30_ years of open borders and social welfare.
The establishment and those who love cheap goods and labor are to blame.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Sometimes those votes aren't always for a candidate, but against the other candidate,


For many years I had voted based on the issues and whether I thought the candidate would be a good leader in times of trouble and would also take into consideration of the VP pick......regardless of party affiliation. That all started to change after Clinton.....who at the time I had voted for both times. I was less concerned about what he did in his personal time than I was about what he did on the national stage.

I voted for Bush Jr the first time, but against his competition the second term. And the same goes for Obama.

In 2016, I was hoping the choices would have been anyone else from either side, but one thing was for certain I would NOT vote for Hillary, come h*ll or high water. Did not like her one bit and that went back to when they left the WH and she wanted to take the furnishings because they were broke.....uuuuuhhhh NO, you don't do that, they are not yours but the peoples.

My other choice would either to stay home or vote Trump but I got sucked into the MSM polls saying she was ahead by a landslide....so I figured I couldn't stay home & not vote at all which was my preference.. It was too important of an election to sit back and let others decide, even though my one vote wouldn't make a difference, I had to atleast put in my 2 cents and ended up holding my nose to vote Trump, against her. Ultimately, I'm not sorry I did.

While I can't really stand the man, don't agree with alot of his antics and wish he would just shut the f*ck up, I do appreciate alot of what he has done for this country that the Dems and lefties and MSM have either completely ignored or twisted to fit their own narrative, yet flat refuse to acknowledge any part in it. Their hypocrisy has been an eye opener and same goes for Republican politicians.

Our government system is no longer controlled by the people, but the people are controlled by the government and that has probably been happening for many years, I just hadn't seen it or been willing to admit it until now (last 4 years)



'How did we get here'???? We, as in all of us, let it happen by trusting those in government to represent the people, when in fact they were playing their own games to deceive us for their own gains with no thought to the people, the Constitution, or the Country.

 

[Mac-7]

Those Chinese products are American products made in China. But yeah, they can choose. Bring the jobs back or pay huge taxes.

You obviously have not thought this through

if you tax imports from American companies but not products made by chinese companies then you are deliberately driving American companies out of business

 

[pknopp]

Sometimes those votes aren't always for a candidate, but against the other candidate,


For many years I had voted based on the issues and whether I thought the candidate would be a good leader in times of trouble and would also take into consideration of the VP pick......regardless of party affiliation. That all started to change after Clinton.....who at the time I had voted for both times. I was less concerned about what he did in his personal time than I was about what he did on the national stage.

I voted for Bush Jr the first time, but against his competition the second term. And the same goes for Obama.

In 2016, I was hoping the choices would have been anyone else from either side, but one thing was for certain I would NOT vote for Hillary, come h*ll or high water. Did not like her one bit and that went back to when they left the WH and she wanted to take the furnishings because they were broke.....uuuuuhhhh NO, you don't do that, they are not yours but the peoples.

My other choice would either to stay home or vote Trump but I got sucked into the MSM polls saying she was ahead by a landslide....so I figured I couldn't stay home & not vote at all which was my preference.. It was too important of an election to sit back and let others decide, even though my one vote wouldn't make a difference, I had to atleast put in my 2 cents and ended up holding my nose to vote Trump, against her. Ultimately, I'm not sorry I did.

While I can't really stand the man, don't agree with alot of his antics and wish he would just shut the f*ck up, I do appreciate alot of what he has done for this country that the Dems and lefties and MSM have either completely ignored or twisted to fit their own narrative, yet flat refuse to acknowledge any part in it. Their hypocrisy has been an eye opener and same goes for Republican politicians.

Our government system is no longer controlled by the people, but the people are controlled by the government and that has probably been happening for many years, I just hadn't seen it or been willing to admit it until now (last 4 years)



'How did we get here'???? We, as in all of us, let it happen by trusting those in government to represent the people, when in fact they were playing their own games to deceive us for their own gains with no thought to the people, the Constitution, or the Country.

Politicians know many do this. They understand that they can lie, cheat and steal and fail miserably as long as they can convince people they haven't failed as bad as he other side.

That's not how we should vote. The lesser evil is still evil.

 

[AMart]

Obama ran on Change. He was not. Trump ran on changing . He did not.

I understand voting for Obama the first time. I do not the second. I understand people voting for Trump the first time. I do not the second.

Once you realize the person you thought knew what he was doing just turned out to be another liar, dump them.

I voted for Trump twice. I like his "promises kept" list.
His personality sucks, but I agree with most of his policies, except for the personal tax cut.
The democrats have no policies that I agree with.

and that is fair....

and that doesn't mean Democrats are evil and want to rape all of your kids just because they want to expand Social Security and make sure everyone has adequate healthcare...

But, if you were honest.........it seems for the past 3 or 4 republican presidential campaigns/administrations --- the views of those who once supported them have not aged well......do you think the same will be said with Trump years from now??

Will people open up and be more honest about it or will they continue to claim he was the greatest leader in human history like they do now?
View attachment 442185

1. I think you refer to "Medicare for all", not expanded SS.
2. Healthcare needs to be paid for, its not free. More and better jobs with healthcare is the answer.
3. IMHO Trump's new "populism" is here to stay, replacing "conservatism", which is another name for "protect the wealthy".
4. What does "open up and be more honest" even mean?? We will vote for the populist candidates over the socialist candidates. Simple.

Trump gave billions of taxpayers dollars to corporate farms. What do you call that? Free market capitalism?

That has been going on for decades. Congress writes the spending bills not POTUS.

 

[pknopp]

Those Chinese products are American products made in China. But yeah, they can choose. Bring the jobs back or pay huge taxes.

You obviously have not thought this through

if you tax imports from American companies but not products made by chinese companies then you are deliberately driving American companies out of business

Chinese companies are selling $2.00 trinkets on Amazon.

That aside, we are not writing tax policy here. We are relaying basic ideas.