Homeschooling: Your Views, Please

[Samson]

As a last note Samson: are you attempting with your comments about 1944 and going to the library to learn about the internet trying to insult me about my age? So you are an ageist? Your comments clarify in many ways your lack of knowledge about the wider world and just intellectual capacity in general, as well as your lack of education. BTW, I was born long after WWII, and I imagine I've been on the internet as long as you have, and, in fact, use it every day in my work. Your attempt to insult me only illustrates what is lacking on your part.

"Ageist?"

No.

Rather, your commentary reveals the reality: You know very little about technology, the internet, its capabilities, and how it is utilized in real-life. Worst, it reveals a tremendous myopia in a fast-changing world in which traditional methods of education have failed, and will continue to fail as long as the institutional leadership continues to denegrate advances in methodology.

In summary, you're a simpleton.

 

[P@triot]

Indeed, a major part of the corporate work that I do is facilitating electronic tools (recording, streaming, etc) for corporate and CE (continuing education) seminars. The technology is certainly by now widely available to skip the physical travel and do a Go-to-Meeting. You can sit in, you can stream, you can watch/listen to a lecture that was given earlier, you can even interact live. It's easy to do.

Has any of this technology slowed the practice of traveling to conventions and seminars? Not one iota. In fact, what's been declining, or at least at a plateau, is the technology side. Over the years no matter how much it's been used in myriad forms, the technological connection has failed to be seen as anything more than a weak substitute for being there -- something to fall back on when you couldn't be there.

There simply is no substitute for the real thing.

Once again, this is a completely false statement. Nothing could be further from the truth. Technology has become a massive industry for virtually attending conventions and seminars. It's just an indisputable fact.

ICPSC Postpones 2014 Conference, Introduces Virtual Seminars - Concrete Construction

Virtual Conference | AIHce2014

The Virtual Assistant VAvirtuoso Seminars Are Back for 2014! :: Romero Communications

IT Virtual Tradeshows - IT Virtual Seminars | ISACA

 

[Samson]

You would be correct.....If it was 1994 instead of 2014.

See there's something now called "the internet:" This allows interaction with others on a scale you may not be able to conceive.

Go to your library. They probably have a book about the "World Wide Web" that will explain the subject better.

Non-human to human interaction though technology is not in any sense the same as direct in person human to human interaction. I am amazed that any thinking individual would believe such a thing: to me, it is obvious that interacting with someone over the phone or internet is absolutely not the same as interacting in person. Just watch a group of people interacting together, in person, discussing an issue or solving problem, then watch the same with an internet group. With an internet group, you can see there are all kinds of lapses and pauses, uncountable 'misses' in communication, etc. As well, studies have made it clear that body language is the largest element in human communication.

The program I work within has regular workshops to keep us up to date and learn new material. A few years ago, all of these workshops were in person, and we had to travel to site for the workshop. Nowadays, there are internet workshops which are cheaper because there is no travel cost, no hotel cost and the payment for the workshop leader is less. However, these internet workshops do not compare with the in-person one. Every colleague I have spoken to on the matter says the same thing: they much prefer and learn a lot more during the in-person workshop with a group of people and an instructor.

As well, where is the home schooled child to get groups to do a lot of internet lessons with? It doesn't happen now, and is not likely to happen. So your position is extremely weak. In-person group learning far more effective than interacting with someone over the internet. Arranging over the internet group (collaborative) learning is not being done as a part of home schooling and is impractical to contemplate as something that will be done.

Indeed, a major part of the corporate work that I do is facilitating electronic tools (recording, streaming, etc) for corporate and CE (continuing education) seminars. The technology is certainly by now widely available to skip the physical travel and do a Go-to-Meeting. You can sit in, you can stream, you can watch/listen to a lecture that was given earlier, you can even interact live. It's easy to do.

Has any of this technology slowed the practice of traveling to conventions and seminars? Not one iota. In fact, what's been declining, or at least at a plateau, is the technology side. Over the years no matter how much it's been used in myriad forms, the technological connection has failed to be seen as anything more than a weak substitute for being there -- something to fall back on when you couldn't be there.

There simply is no substitute for the real thing.

Ridiculous.

There are substitutes for practically everything. Your analysis is supported by nothing: certainly not common sense. For example, travel budgets and corporate spending for travel has"not changed one iota?" Really? You've a comparative study? I haven't seen many corporate memos insisting employees maintain their level of travel for the past 20 years regardless of cost! In fact, the number of teleconferences and on-line meetings has increased exponentially. I'll bother to find the data that you have not, but I doubt it would change opinions mired in as much illogical confusion as yours seems to be.

 

[Samson]

Indeed, a major part of the corporate work that I do is facilitating electronic tools (recording, streaming, etc) for corporate and CE (continuing education) seminars. The technology is certainly by now widely available to skip the physical travel and do a Go-to-Meeting. You can sit in, you can stream, you can watch/listen to a lecture that was given earlier, you can even interact live. It's easy to do.

Has any of this technology slowed the practice of traveling to conventions and seminars? Not one iota. In fact, what's been declining, or at least at a plateau, is the technology side. Over the years no matter how much it's been used in myriad forms, the technological connection has failed to be seen as anything more than a weak substitute for being there -- something to fall back on when you couldn't be there.

There simply is no substitute for the real thing.

Once again, this is a completely false statement. Nothing could be further from the truth. Technology has become a massive industry for virtually attending conventions and seminars. It's just an indisputable fact.

ICPSC Postpones 2014 Conference, Introduces Virtual Seminars - Concrete Construction

Virtual Conference | AIHce2014

The Virtual Assistant VAvirtuoso Seminars Are Back for 2014! :: Romero Communications

IT Virtual Tradeshows - IT Virtual Seminars | ISACA

You beat me to it.

 

[Samson]

People who act differently on the internets --and let's be honest, that's rampant -- do so because the surrounding context, the social environment if you will, is not present. We interact via words in a text box. That and an occasional emoticon is all we have. To pretend the breadth of human communication can be expressed therein would be ludicrous.

What is ludicrous is pretending over and over and over (as you keep doing) that online learning is the same thing as USMB - and it's not. Online learning is not anonymous like USMB is. Online learning is not limited to typing like USMB. Online learning has video to see everything - just like you were there in person. Online learning has audio to hear everything - just like you were there in person.

Why do you keep disingenuously pretending that our experience on USMB is the exact same format/experience of online learning? I know damn well you're not that dumb. Which means you are lying on purpose. So stop it. Online learning is not limited to posting text in little boxes with emoticons and you know it.

Agreed: Pogo is really running around with the red-herring. While a message board can be used as PART of an on-line curriculum, it is not the WHOLE curriculum. In fact, there may be some element non-virtual learning, e.g. one or two days per month where you are actually required to appear in person.




Think how interesting that would make a message board like USMB!

 

[P@triot]

Indeed, a major part of the corporate work that I do is facilitating electronic tools (recording, streaming, etc) for corporate and CE (continuing education) seminars. The technology is certainly by now widely available to skip the physical travel and do a Go-to-Meeting. You can sit in, you can stream, you can watch/listen to a lecture that was given earlier, you can even interact live. It's easy to do.

Has any of this technology slowed the practice of traveling to conventions and seminars? Not one iota. In fact, what's been declining, or at least at a plateau, is the technology side. Over the years no matter how much it's been used in myriad forms, the technological connection has failed to be seen as anything more than a weak substitute for being there -- something to fall back on when you couldn't be there.

There simply is no substitute for the real thing.

Once again, this is a completely false statement. Nothing could be further from the truth. Technology has become a massive industry for virtually attending conventions and seminars. It's just an indisputable fact.

ICPSC Postpones 2014 Conference, Introduces Virtual Seminars - Concrete Construction

Virtual Conference | AIHce2014

The Virtual Assistant VAvirtuoso Seminars Are Back for 2014! :: Romero Communications

IT Virtual Tradeshows - IT Virtual Seminars | ISACA

You beat me to it.

It is maddening when people make up their own version of reality. It's so far beyond absurd to say that that "technology has not replaced travel to conferences and seminars one iota". In fact, it has replaced it a billion iota's.

 

[Wake]

On Professions and Nobility [MENTION=31918]Unkotare[/MENTION] [MENTION=18909]thanatos144[/MENTION]
Unkotare's comment that noble is all honest work done to the best of one's ability is one I agree with fully. This side-debate serves as a distraction to the issue of homeschooling, because it's not about which profession is more noble. You can't quantify that. People are gonna be biased in favor of their own professions. For example, in my personal opinion I find caregiving to be pretty doggone noble... But yeah, it's really not that important. No profession is more noble than anyone else's, but all professions worked hard and honestly is.

Social Interaction & Homeschooling [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=42777]DigitalDrifter[/MENTION]
Kids tend to do much, much better academically in homeschooling (please take my biased opinion with a cup of salt!). There are cases where kids don't get enough social interaction with others. However, that's not always such a bad thing. Nowadays in public schools there are so many bad and stupid influences out there. It's probably tough for a young guy or gal to find and socialize with a truly upright and good person in school. So many teens in public schools have filthy minds, and empty heads. I've seen it; I do take notice of school kids while I'm about my business, and a lot of them are just obnoxious attention whores. At McDonald's I'll be using my laptop, and a gaggle of 14-something girls will walk in, talk all loud and giddy/stupid, and do crazy things to get attention. Especially from the teen guy kids, who are just as stupid, and trying to impress. At times I feel like an annoyed snapping turtle in a small pond, with a lot of dumb fish that have a flair for the dramatic. My point being, a lot of public school kids behave stupidly, do stupidly, and end up stupidly. Influence is everything in life, and the peer-pressure broiler known as the public school system sees a lot of innocent children becoming weird and foolish teens. Frankly, there are many alternatives to being social, without all the bull plop.

Againsheila's Interesting Link [MENTION=13805]Againsheila[/MENTION]
Okay, I missed that one, and it's neat: Homeschool World - News - Some Fascinating Facts About Homeschool vs Public School. Thanks, Sheila. Huh, 17.3% of homeschooling father's professions were accountants or engineers... dad was a computer engineer. Those national average percentile scores are nothing to scoff at, either. I think I turned out all right thanks to homeschooling; I'm now a hardworking CNA taking care of people, paying off school debts my own way, staying out of trouble, and having not screwed up my life. Thank goodness I didn't experience those bad influences in the public school system.

 

[thanatos144]

On Professions and Nobility [MENTION=31918]Unkotare[/MENTION] [MENTION=18909]thanatos144[/MENTION]
Unkotare's comment that noble is all honest work done to the best of one's ability is one I agree with fully. This side-debate serves as a distraction to the issue of homeschooling, because it's not about which profession is more noble. You can't quantify that. People are gonna be biased in favor of their own professions. For example, in my personal opinion I find caregiving to be pretty doggone noble... But yeah, it's really not that important. No profession is more noble than anyone else's, but all professions worked hard and honestly is.

Social Interaction & Homeschooling [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=42777]DigitalDrifter[/MENTION]
Kids tend to do much, much better academically in homeschooling (please take my biased opinion with a cup of salt!). There are cases where kids don't get enough social interaction with others. However, that's not always such a bad thing. Nowadays in public schools there are so many bad and stupid influences out there. It's probably tough for a young guy or gal to find and socialize with a truly upright and good person in school. So many teens in public schools have filthy minds, and empty heads. I've seen it; I do take notice of school kids while I'm about my business, and a lot of them are just obnoxious attention whores. At McDonald's I'll be using my laptop, and a gaggle of 14-something girls will walk in, talk all loud and giddy/stupid, and do crazy things to get attention. Especially from the teen guy kids, who are just as stupid, and trying to impress. At times I feel like an annoyed snapping turtle in a small pond, with a lot of dumb fish that have a flair for the dramatic. My point being, a lot of public school kids behave stupidly, do stupidly, and end up stupidly. Influence is everything in life, and the peer-pressure broiler known as the public school system sees a lot of innocent children becoming weird and foolish teens. Frankly, there are many alternatives to being social, without all the bull plop.

Againsheila's Interesting Link [MENTION=13805]Againsheila[/MENTION]
Okay, I missed that one, and it's neat: Homeschool World - News - Some Fascinating Facts About Homeschool vs Public School. Thanks, Sheila. Huh, 17.3% of homeschooling father's professions were accountants or engineers... dad was a computer engineer. Those national average percentile scores are nothing to scoff at, either. I think I turned out all right thanks to homeschooling; I'm now a hardworking CNA taking care of people, paying off school debts my own way, staying out of trouble, and having not screwed up my life. Thank goodness I didn't experience those bad influences in the public school system.

Don't buy it. While being a GOOD teacher is noble and there are damn few good teachers it is not more noble then laying down your life for others...

 

[Pogo]

Most Noble profession???? Even more so then laying down your life for your freedom???? Oh yea I forget I am talking to a progressive, they hates soldiers

Making sweeping generalizations doesn't help your position at all. For example, my screen name is taken from a JD Salinger short story "For Esme with Love and Squalor," which "was conceived as a tribute to those Second World War veterans who in post-war civilian life were still suffering from so-called "battle fatigue" – post-traumatic stress disorder." wiki

I don't hate soldiers, and I am pretty sure I am not an isolated case among liberals and progressives. Far from isolated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no offense to Pogo, but I think fire fighters, nurses, paramedics, and police officers (those who do their best to serve and protect) are also most noble professions. I think teachers in America are vilified, and that is very bad for American education. In other countries teachers are respected, and those other countries have better educational outcomes (those countries also have teacher unions). The public having little to no respect for teachers is one of the biggest problems in American education.

I am sure you love soldiers as long as they stay off your grass and dont date your daughters. Just like all you progressives treat black folk.

Negged.

Attention whores just can't stand dialogue going over their tiny heads...

 

[thanatos144]

Making sweeping generalizations doesn't help your position at all. For example, my screen name is taken from a JD Salinger short story "For Esme with Love and Squalor," which "was conceived as a tribute to those Second World War veterans who in post-war civilian life were still suffering from so-called "battle fatigue" – post-traumatic stress disorder." wiki

I don't hate soldiers, and I am pretty sure I am not an isolated case among liberals and progressives. Far from isolated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no offense to Pogo, but I think fire fighters, nurses, paramedics, and police officers (those who do their best to serve and protect) are also most noble professions. I think teachers in America are vilified, and that is very bad for American education. In other countries teachers are respected, and those other countries have better educational outcomes (those countries also have teacher unions). The public having little to no respect for teachers is one of the biggest problems in American education.

I am sure you love soldiers as long as they stay off your grass and dont date your daughters. Just like all you progressives treat black folk.

Negged.

Attention whores just can't stand dialogue going over their tiny heads...

I am sure I am emotionally scared that a dishonest crybaby who hates the truth will neg me...... get a life

tapatalk post

 

[thanatos144]

By the way pobitch you don't get to tell me to leave a thread

tapatalk post

 

[Pogo]

Indeed, a major part of the corporate work that I do is facilitating electronic tools (recording, streaming, etc) for corporate and CE (continuing education) seminars. The technology is certainly by now widely available to skip the physical travel and do a Go-to-Meeting. You can sit in, you can stream, you can watch/listen to a lecture that was given earlier, you can even interact live. It's easy to do.

Has any of this technology slowed the practice of traveling to conventions and seminars? Not one iota. In fact, what's been declining, or at least at a plateau, is the technology side. Over the years no matter how much it's been used in myriad forms, the technological connection has failed to be seen as anything more than a weak substitute for being there -- something to fall back on when you couldn't be there.

There simply is no substitute for the real thing.

Once again, this is a completely false statement. Nothing could be further from the truth. Technology has become a massive industry for virtually attending conventions and seminars. It's just an indisputable fact.

ICPSC Postpones 2014 Conference, Introduces Virtual Seminars - Concrete Construction

Virtual Conference | AIHce2014

The Virtual Assistant VAvirtuoso Seminars Are Back for 2014! :: Romero Communications

IT Virtual Tradeshows - IT Virtual Seminars | ISACA

Look dood --- I WORK in this industry, K?. I KNOW what it's doing; I KNOW what the providers of these technologies are doing-- they're consolidating, they're going into other businesses, they're laying people off, they're doing a lot less than they've done in the past. It doesn't matter how many links you can dredge up to make a biased sample fallacy; I'm in the middle of it and I KNOW what the trends are. It affects me and the people I work with directly. It affects what kind of business my clients can do directly. And that means it affects what kind of work load I have -- directly.

I know what it's doing now, what it was doing two years ago, five years ago, ten years ago, twenty, and thirty. I'm not sitting in my barcalounger scratching Google; this is what I actually do. It's my business to know this stuff.

And when I say I know, I mean I know what this or that particular trade group did last year, year before, year before that in terms of attendance. I have to know that, and what the patrons of them think. I interact with them directly; I know what they think of the options they have. Directly from their mouths. K? You can dig up random lists of virtual meetings, you can also dig up lists of internet radio stations. Doesn't mean either one of them has an appreciable audience.

We've been through years of anticipating what the future of this industry would look like with changing technology and designing ways to be in front of it and adapting, especially on the question of whether our customer base would shift from physical presence to virtual so we could be ready for it. And it hasn't happened. Virtual still exists but in the big picture question of whether there would be a shift to it, the answer is NO. It's still, as I said in the first place, a pale imitation of the real thing.

Don't sit there and try to tell me my own business. Sheesh.

 

[Esmeralda]

As a last note Samson: are you attempting with your comments about 1944 and going to the library to learn about the internet trying to insult me about my age? So you are an ageist? Your comments clarify in many ways your lack of knowledge about the wider world and just intellectual capacity in general, as well as your lack of education. BTW, I was born long after WWII, and I imagine I've been on the internet as long as you have, and, in fact, use it every day in my work. Your attempt to insult me only illustrates what is lacking on your part.

"Ageist?"

No.

Rather, your commentary reveals the reality: You know very little about technology, the internet, its capabilities, and how it is utilized in real-life. Worst, it reveals a tremendous myopia in a fast-changing world in which traditional methods of education have failed, and will continue to fail as long as the institutional leadership continues to denegrate advances in methodology.

In summary, you're a simpleton.

This is why I have had you on ignore, because you are such a pompous ass without anything to be pompous about. Traditional methods of teaching have not failed. You perhaps are referring to the problems with education in the US. The US is not the world.

Technology and methodology are two different things, so that quip is pretty mindless.

In summary, your perception and understanding of the wider world, your vision of reality, is the one that is simple. When you throw that accusation at me, you are tossing a boomerang: it'll be hitting you in the face on its way back to you.

And you are back on ignore. It is useless to attempt any discussion with someone like you. You're mean, you're angry, your understanding of the wider world is simplistic at best, and you are nearly always completely irrational and wrong about the real world.

 

[Esmeralda]

Once again, this is a completely false statement. Nothing could be further from the truth. Technology has become a massive industry for virtually attending conventions and seminars. It's just an indisputable fact.

ICPSC Postpones 2014 Conference, Introduces Virtual Seminars - Concrete Construction

Virtual Conference | AIHce2014

The Virtual Assistant VAvirtuoso Seminars Are Back for 2014! :: Romero Communications

IT Virtual Tradeshows - IT Virtual Seminars | ISACA

You beat me to it.

It is maddening when people make up their own version of reality. It's so far beyond absurd to say that that "technology has not replaced travel to conferences and seminars one iota". In fact, it has replaced it a billion iota's.

People may not be traveling to conferences, workshops and seminars as much as before because those events are now often done online. However, that doesn't mean they are better than real life experience or even as good. Corporations do it that way because it saves them money, not because the experience is superior. It's all about money: it's cheaper, and you get what you pay for.

And let's get back to reality here: this discussion has nothing to do with home schooling: people involved in home schooling do not have access to this type of technology and most likely will not have it anywhere within the near future. If, and it is very iffy, the homeschooling network develops any programs that use such technology, it will be very far in the distant future.

 

[Pogo]

Non-human to human interaction though technology is not in any sense the same as direct in person human to human interaction. I am amazed that any thinking individual would believe such a thing: to me, it is obvious that interacting with someone over the phone or internet is absolutely not the same as interacting in person. Just watch a group of people interacting together, in person, discussing an issue or solving problem, then watch the same with an internet group. With an internet group, you can see there are all kinds of lapses and pauses, uncountable 'misses' in communication, etc. As well, studies have made it clear that body language is the largest element in human communication.

The program I work within has regular workshops to keep us up to date and learn new material. A few years ago, all of these workshops were in person, and we had to travel to site for the workshop. Nowadays, there are internet workshops which are cheaper because there is no travel cost, no hotel cost and the payment for the workshop leader is less. However, these internet workshops do not compare with the in-person one. Every colleague I have spoken to on the matter says the same thing: they much prefer and learn a lot more during the in-person workshop with a group of people and an instructor.

As well, where is the home schooled child to get groups to do a lot of internet lessons with? It doesn't happen now, and is not likely to happen. So your position is extremely weak. In-person group learning far more effective than interacting with someone over the internet. Arranging over the internet group (collaborative) learning is not being done as a part of home schooling and is impractical to contemplate as something that will be done.

Indeed, a major part of the corporate work that I do is facilitating electronic tools (recording, streaming, etc) for corporate and CE (continuing education) seminars. The technology is certainly by now widely available to skip the physical travel and do a Go-to-Meeting. You can sit in, you can stream, you can watch/listen to a lecture that was given earlier, you can even interact live. It's easy to do.

Has any of this technology slowed the practice of traveling to conventions and seminars? Not one iota. In fact, what's been declining, or at least at a plateau, is the technology side. Over the years no matter how much it's been used in myriad forms, the technological connection has failed to be seen as anything more than a weak substitute for being there -- something to fall back on when you couldn't be there.

There simply is no substitute for the real thing.

Ridiculous.

There are substitutes for practically everything. Your analysis is supported by nothing: certainly not common sense. For example, travel budgets and corporate spending for travel has"not changed one iota?" Really? You've a comparative study? I haven't seen many corporate memos insisting employees maintain their level of travel for the past 20 years regardless of cost! In fact, the number of teleconferences and on-line meetings has increased exponentially. I'll bother to find the data that you have not, but I doubt it would change opinions mired in as much illogical confusion as yours seems to be.

As I just told the other guy, this is what I do. I'm at twenty to thirty such conferences a year, personally. Yes, the attendance at these things is absolutely crucial to what we do, because that's my clients' customer base, so I know it inside and out.

You know when we had a dip in physical attendance? Just after 9/11, for about a year. Other than that, I guarantee you, people are NOT staying home and going the virtual route instead. What are they using it for? They're supplementing what they have in personal attendance, they're using them as study notes (probably the most common use), sometimes they're sharing with colleagues. But when the National Association of Putting Things on Top of Other Things has its seminar, those who really need to know how it's done still go in person for hands on old fashioned human interaction and networking.

And I absolutely guarantee you, the virtual technology industry has slimmed down what it's tried to do -- because the overall concept is just not selling on any scale that indicates any kind of shift. It already hit its plateau and is gasping for air. I can give you a list of people I know, right here, right now, who are not even working in that industry any more, because there's just not enough work to sustain them. I'm lucky enough to still have some clients -- far less than in the recent past, but not because there isn't interest in the conferences; that attendance is still healthy and growing. It's because there just isn't enough interest in the virtual for that approach to grow. It's shrinking. And to be specific I'd say the point where we reached a peak and it became clear the virtual industry would have to cut back to a more sustainable level was about two to three years ago. That's when they basically decided, 'this just isn't working' and pared down and resigned to try to do more with less. Time will tell if they pared down enough.

So again, I don't come on this message board and regurgitate a slew of links telling you guys how to lay bricks or whatever you do. K?

 

[Pogo]

You beat me to it.

It is maddening when people make up their own version of reality. It's so far beyond absurd to say that that "technology has not replaced travel to conferences and seminars one iota". In fact, it has replaced it a billion iota's.

People don't travel to conferences, workshops and seminars as much as before because those events are now often done online. However, that doesn't mean they are better than real life experience or even as good. Corporations do it that way because it saves them money, not because the experience is superior. It's all about money: it's cheaper, and you get what you pay for.

And let's get back to reality here: this discussion has nothing to do with home schooling: people involved in home schooling do not have access to this type of technology and most likely will not have it anywhere within the near future. If, and it is very iffy, the homeschooling network develops any programs that use such technology, it will be very far in the distant future.

Actually, yes they DO travel to seminars as much as before, and more. That's part of my point; that the virtual channel is not replacing that. It's supplementing that, and doing so at a shrinking rate. There just isn't enough interest. So it's consolidated what it virtualizes to fewer and fewer major events and just hope that they can be sustained. Obviously this stuff doesn't happen for free; it can only do what its customer base supports. And that support has definitely seen its peak and passed it.

All of which simply indicates and confirms that this virtual educational channel, simply has not replaced, and is not replacing, the real world one. No more than televising sports events has replaced real fans in the stands.

 

[Pogo]

As a last note Samson: are you attempting with your comments about 1944 and going to the library to learn about the internet trying to insult me about my age? So you are an ageist? Your comments clarify in many ways your lack of knowledge about the wider world and just intellectual capacity in general, as well as your lack of education. BTW, I was born long after WWII, and I imagine I've been on the internet as long as you have, and, in fact, use it every day in my work. Your attempt to insult me only illustrates what is lacking on your part.

"Ageist?"

No.

Rather, your commentary reveals the reality: You know very little about technology, the internet, its capabilities, and how it is utilized in real-life. Worst, it reveals a tremendous myopia in a fast-changing world in which traditional methods of education have failed, and will continue to fail as long as the institutional leadership continues to denegrate advances in methodology.

In summary, you're a simpleton.

This is why I have had you on ignore, because you are such a pompous ass without anything to be pompous about. Traditional methods of teaching have not failed. You perhaps are referring to the problems with education in the US. The US is not the world.

Technology and methodology are two different things, so that quip is pretty mindless.

In summary, your perception and understanding of the wider world, your vision of reality, is the one that is simple. When you throw that accusation at me, you are tossing a boomerang: it'll be hitting you in the face on its way back to you.

And you are back on ignore. It is useless to attempt any discussion with someone like you. You're mean, you're angry, your understanding of the wider world is simplistic at best, and you are nearly always completely irrational and wrong about the real world.

Based on the last few posts I'd have to conclude he's an internet-expert. One of these know-it-alls who thinks he has the only Google and can tell other people what their own businesses are because he read it on the internet.

That's too bad, because he's otherwise a good thinker. I wouldn't say he's always wrong, but simplistic, yeah certainly lately.

 

[Skull Pilot]

As long as home schools met state requirements for a public education, go ahead.

That sentiment makes me feel a little wary, because I've heard elsewhere in places like Germany that are unreasonably controlling of homeschoolers. My schooling was from Christian Liberty Academy, although I'm no longer religious.

If we live in our country with a federal constitution and the various state consittutions, then I fully believe the states can craft appropriate vetting protocol for successful education.

I wonder if a home schooled who fails the comprehensive protocal should result in a $5000 or more fine for the parents.

Please explain how on average home schooled kids perform better than their public school counterparts.

Home-Schooled Teens Ripe for College - US News

More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly 4 percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.

 

[Unkotare]

Indeed, a major part of the corporate work that I do is facilitating electronic tools (recording, streaming, etc) for corporate and CE (continuing education) seminars. The technology is certainly by now widely available to skip the physical travel and do a Go-to-Meeting. You can sit in, you can stream, you can watch/listen to a lecture that was given earlier, you can even interact live. It's easy to do.

Has any of this technology slowed the practice of traveling to conventions and seminars? Not one iota. In fact, what's been declining, or at least at a plateau, is the technology side. Over the years no matter how much it's been used in myriad forms, the technological connection has failed to be seen as anything more than a weak substitute for being there -- something to fall back on when you couldn't be there.

There simply is no substitute for the real thing.

Once again, this is a completely false statement. Nothing could be further from the truth. Technology has become a massive industry for virtually attending conventions and seminars. It's just an indisputable fact.

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Look dood --- I WORK in this industry, K?. I KNOW what it's doing; I KNOW what the providers of these technologies are doing-- they're consolidating, they're going into other businesses, they're laying people off, they're doing a lot less than they've done in the past. It doesn't matter how many links you can dredge up to make a biased sample fallacy; I'm in the middle of it and I KNOW what the trends are. It affects me and the people I work with directly. It affects what kind of business my clients can do directly. And that means it affects what kind of work load I have -- directly.

I know what it's doing now, what it was doing two years ago, five years ago, ten years ago, twenty, and thirty. I'm not sitting in my barcalounger scratching Google; this is what I actually do. It's my business to know this stuff.

And when I say I know, I mean I know what this or that particular trade group did last year, year before, year before that in terms of attendance. I have to know that, and what the patrons of them think. I interact with them directly; I know what they think of the options they have. Directly from their mouths. K? You can dig up random lists of virtual meetings, you can also dig up lists of internet radio stations. Doesn't mean either one of them has an appreciable audience.

We've been through years of anticipating what the future of this industry would look like with changing technology and designing ways to be in front of it and adapting, especially on the question of whether our customer base would shift from physical presence to virtual so we could be ready for it. And it hasn't happened. Virtual still exists but in the big picture question of whether there would be a shift to it, the answer is NO. It's still, as I said in the first place, a pale imitation of the real thing.

Don't sit there and try to tell me my own business. Sheesh.

And yet he supported his claim with data, whereas you just whined "because I said so!"

Interesting...

 

[Pogo]

On Professions and Nobility [MENTION=31918]Unkotare[/MENTION] [MENTION=18909]thanatos144[/MENTION]
Unkotare's comment that noble is all honest work done to the best of one's ability is one I agree with fully. This side-debate serves as a distraction to the issue of homeschooling, because it's not about which profession is more noble. You can't quantify that. People are gonna be biased in favor of their own professions. For example, in my personal opinion I find caregiving to be pretty doggone noble... But yeah, it's really not that important. No profession is more noble than anyone else's, but all professions worked hard and honestly is.

Those are just trolls trying to derail a thread they're not smart enough to participate in, crying for attention. Just ignore them and move on.

Social Interaction & Homeschooling [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=42777]DigitalDrifter[/MENTION]
Kids tend to do much, much better academically in homeschooling (please take my biased opinion with a cup of salt!). There are cases where kids don't get enough social interaction with others. However, that's not always such a bad thing. Nowadays in public schools there are so many bad and stupid influences out there. It's probably tough for a young guy or gal to find and socialize with a truly upright and good person in school. So many teens in public schools have filthy minds, and empty heads. I've seen it; I do take notice of school kids while I'm about my business, and a lot of them are just obnoxious attention whores. At McDonald's I'll be using my laptop, and a gaggle of 14-something girls will walk in, talk all loud and giddy/stupid, and do crazy things to get attention. Especially from the teen guy kids, who are just as stupid, and trying to impress. At times I feel like an annoyed snapping turtle in a small pond, with a lot of dumb fish that have a flair for the dramatic. My point being, a lot of public school kids behave stupidly, do stupidly, and end up stupidly. Influence is everything in life, and the peer-pressure broiler known as the public school system sees a lot of innocent children becoming weird and foolish teens. Frankly, there are many alternatives to being social, without all the bull plop.

Seems to me what you're alluding to here (and refrained in the note to Sheila) is overall social mores. I see that as coming from the greater culture (using the term loosely), especially the mass media that in effect sells those values. I don't see that as in any way emanating from the school system; that's just the place the kids are congregated, so it becomes the place where it would be highly visible.

But that's in no way limited to public school, private school, or home school; no matter what the kids' educational format, they're still part of the same culture in the outside world. For all the influence it does have, I don't think an institution like a school even has the power mass media has by now -- and by mass media I'm including cell phones and twitting and Nosebooking all that crapola that really does have their attention 24/7. Not to leave out my favorite target, of course, TV the babysitter.

And not, certainly, to imply that that influence is at all limited to kids of course. Those who fret, understandably, about cultural degradation are looking in the wrong direction if they're looking at school institutions and ignoring the mass media that has far more influence.

Arguably when we came up in the age before internetting and twitting and cellphone tethers, the school did have a lot more influence, but the mass media was already making inroads with the boob tube. Perhaps they were then about even or at least competitive. I would argue that media has long since taken over and won that contest.