Holocaust Denial: Nope

[SweetSue92]

It's a conspiracy theory so big it's illegal in many countries. As an American let me say I don't think it should be illegal.

But it is massively stupid. I mean it. Massively, undeniably stupid. But there is a poster here who subscribes to it--at least one. Whenever I bring this up to her, she says "start a thread about World War Two". I would, but Holocaust Denial is not really about World War 2. It's about Holocaust Denial. Which is a stupider thread all on its own, which belongs in Conspiracy Theories, at least I think so. Because really, if the entire Holocaust is a conspiracy....it's too stupid. I can't.

So, bring it Penelope. Let's see all your best, um, "evidence".

 

[mdk]

I've always rather enjoyed people making these silly viewpoints known. It makes avoiding fools all the easier when they self-identify.

 

[fncceo]

There is a simple reason for the criminalization of Holocaust Denial in Europe... the actual danger of Nazi resurgence.

When the Nazis were destroyed by the Allies in 1945, millions of loyal Nazis survived and many of those would have loved to have seen Nazism reborn in a kinder, gentler, less murdery way. Nazism was popular with Germans before the end of World War 2 and even had many fans in Europe, Britain, and America.

The Nazis are irrevocably linked in History to the slaughter of millions of Jewish civilians. For this alone, it has poisoned the ideology to the point it can never be revived.

But, many believe, if they can erase the connection between Nazi ideology and The Holocaust, it will pave the way for Nazism to return as a political system.

Fearing a real threat from former Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, most of Europe criminalized the denial or trivialization of The Holocaust to prevent just such a resurgence.

 

[gtopa1]

Yawn: Holocaust Deniers, #MuellerDeniers, low functioning morons; all peas in a pod.

Greg

 

[Penelope]

Read and weep. I prefer to look at it as WWII as the amount of Jewish deaths that occurred are smaller in number, as well as one could say , the Jews started it as evidenced by "Judea declares war on Germany" in 1933, even though they were paying for WWI and the great depression hit the whole globe.
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The Poles, like the Jews, were considered by the Nazis to be “Untermenschen” (sub-humans) to be extinguished. The goal of Operation Tannenberg was to identify the members of the Polish middle class: public officials, scholars, actors, Catholic clergy, and murder them. It is estimated that in the norther part of Poland called Pomerania, which was of special German interest, 36,000 to 42,000 Poles were killed in mass executions before the end of 1939.

Snip

But it is also true that Poles were targeted for extermination as well. Since the Polish population was much larger than the Jewish one, the methods employed to extinguish the Poles were to be different.

The first targets were prominent citizens and intellectuals, and political opposition – people suspected of being members of the underground resistance.

The first mass transport to Auschwitz occurred on June 14, 1940, and included 728 Polish political prisoners and a small group of Jews.

Snip

The Jews had to wear the Star of David; the Poles had to wear a red triangle. They were equally brutalized, deprived of their humanity and condemned to death. In the concentration and labor camps they lived longer; in the death camps they were subjected to immediate murder. But in the eyes of their German oppressors, their fate was meant to be same.

Today Auschwitz is a symbol of the Jewish Holocaust. It is true that the Poles were mainly in Auschwitz I, which was a concentration camp, whereas the majority of the Jews was directed straight to Birkenau, which was a death camp. However, since they were both classified as Untermenschen, both Jews and Poles would ultimately face extermination.

Poland and the Jews: A few facts about Poland's WWII history

 

[K9Buck]

So, bring it Penelope. Let's see all your best, um, "evidence".

If she responds, it will probably be in the form of a link to an article by some nutcase.

On another note, articles should be linked to BACK one's argument, not make it. One shouldn't need to post a link to an argument that they should be able to make themselves. To do so is intellectually lazy.

 

[Penelope]

Yawn: Holocaust Deniers, #MuellerDeniers, low functioning morons; all peas in a pod.

Greg

Do you have anything to add to the OP, if not we can do away with your opinions.

 

[SweetSue92]

I've always rather enjoyed people making these silly viewpoints known. It makes avoiding fools all the easier when they self-identify.

Agree with you 100%. I think Holocaust Denial is an automatic fool-filter. If you cannot or do not believe one of the most well-documented events in the 20th century, which the nation that inflicted the torture has owned up to, then you mark yourself as the veriest fool. I can't convince you then that the grass is green and the sky is blue.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yawn: Holocaust Deniers, #MuellerDeniers, low functioning morons; all peas in a pod.

Greg

Do you have anything to add to the OP, if not we can do away with your opinions.

C'mon Penny do better. You believe Jews died in the Holocaust but only of diseases, or so you have said. Now fess up and bring your best evidence. So we know you're a smart and credible poster.

 

[K9Buck]

I prefer to look at it as WWII as the amount of Jewish deaths that occurred are smaller in number, as well as one could say , the Jews started it as evidenced by "Judea declares war on Germany" in 1933, even though they were paying for WWI and the great depression hit the whole globe.

Huh? Can you reiterate this but more clearly?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

You have to be a complete moron to be a holocaust denier.

 

[SweetSue92]

There is a simple reason for the criminalization of Holocaust Denial in Europe... the actual danger of Nazi resurgence.

When the Nazis were destroyed by the Allies in 1945, millions of loyal Nazis survived and many of those would have loved to have seen Nazism reborn in a kinder, gentler, less murdery way. Nazism was popular with Germans before the end of World War 2 and even had many fans in Europe, Britain, and America.

The Nazis are irrevocably linked in History to the slaughter of millions of Jewish civilians. For this alone, it has poisoned the ideology to the point it can never be revived.

But, many believe, if they can erase the connection between Nazi ideology and The Holocaust, it will pave the way for Nazism to return as a political system.

Fearing a real threat from former Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, most of Europe criminalized the denial or trivialization of The Holocaust to prevent just such a resurgence.

I can understand the reasoning, believe me. But outlawing a school of thought is patently unAmerican. The way to defeat the school of thought is to crush it entirely or mock the heck out of it.

I don't understand why we allowed Germany to stand after WW2 to be honest. That is NOT to say why we should have utterly destroy the land and its people. But we we didn't annex the nation to surrounding nations: Poland, Austria, etc. But that's just me.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I've always rather enjoyed people making these silly viewpoints known. It makes avoiding fools all the easier when they self-identify.

I've been to Buchenwald.

One of the most sobering moments of my life

 

[MisterBeale]

What I have never understood, is, why is it so important to force others to think the same as they think? Why call folks names if they don't believe why you believe? Why is this a threat to ones ego if they believe in something different? I just don't get this.

If other people want to believe in unicorns and little green men, why does it insult others that are sure they don't exist?


Why is that an affront? Why can't people have free thought?

 

[SweetSue92]

Read and weep. I prefer to look at it as WWII as the amount of Jewish deaths that occurred are smaller in number, as well as one could say , the Jews started it as evidenced by "Judea declares war on Germany" in 1933, even though they were paying for WWI and the great depression hit the whole globe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Poles, like the Jews, were considered by the Nazis to be “Untermenschen” (sub-humans) to be extinguished. The goal of Operation Tannenberg was to identify the members of the Polish middle class: public officials, scholars, actors, Catholic clergy, and murder them. It is estimated that in the norther part of Poland called Pomerania, which was of special German interest, 36,000 to 42,000 Poles were killed in mass executions before the end of 1939.

Snip

But it is also true that Poles were targeted for extermination as well. Since the Polish population was much larger than the Jewish one, the methods employed to extinguish the Poles were to be different.

The first targets were prominent citizens and intellectuals, and political opposition – people suspected of being members of the underground resistance.

The first mass transport to Auschwitz occurred on June 14, 1940, and included 728 Polish political prisoners and a small group of Jews.

Snip

The Jews had to wear the Star of David; the Poles had to wear a red triangle. They were equally brutalized, deprived of their humanity and condemned to death. In the concentration and labor camps they lived longer; in the death camps they were subjected to immediate murder. But in the eyes of their German oppressors, their fate was meant to be same.

Today Auschwitz is a symbol of the Jewish Holocaust. It is true that the Poles were mainly in Auschwitz I, which was a concentration camp, whereas the majority of the Jews was directed straight to Birkenau, which was a death camp. However, since they were both classified as Untermenschen, both Jews and Poles would ultimately face extermination.

Poland and the Jews: A few facts about Poland's WWII history

So you have come around? You admit now that Jews actually were exterminated in gas chambers in mass numbers?

Just so you can save your breath: yes, WW2 was a horrid atrocity for many people and millions and millions died who were NOT Jewish. We know this, Penny.

 

[SweetSue92]

What I have never understood, is, why is it so important to force others to think the same as they think? Why call folks names if they don't believe why you believe? Why is this a threat to ones ego if they believe in something different? I just don't get this.

If other people want to believe in unicorns and little green men, why does it insult others that are sure they don't exist?


Why is that an affront? Why can't people have free thought?

There is no "my truth" and "your truth".

There is only THE truth. And I'm not even sorry to tell you this, I will stand on it 'til the day I die and beyond, Thank Jesus.

 

[fncceo]

I don't understand why we allowed Germany to stand after WW2 to be honest.

Americans don't put conquered nations to the sword ... we are not, after all, Nazis.

 

[gtopa1]

There is a simple reason for the criminalization of Holocaust Denial in Europe... the actual danger of Nazi resurgence.

When the Nazis were destroyed by the Allies in 1945, millions of loyal Nazis survived and many of those would have loved to have seen Nazism reborn in a kinder, gentler, less murdery way. Nazism was popular with Germans before the end of World War 2 and even had many fans in Europe, Britain, and America.

The Nazis are irrevocably linked in History to the slaughter of millions of Jewish civilians. For this alone, it has poisoned the ideology to the point it can never be revived.

But, many believe, if they can erase the connection between Nazi ideology and The Holocaust, it will pave the way for Nazism to return as a political system.

Fearing a real threat from former Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, most of Europe criminalized the denial or trivialization of The Holocaust to prevent just such a resurgence.

How many are there? I've never met one though I have met a few anti-Israel mob who are Holocaust Deniers. (They conflate Holocaust Denial and anti-Israeli sentiments). Their root is not Nazism but anti-American Socialism/Communism. One look at that idiot Corbyn and you see this in action.

On Wednesday, the Politics Home website reported that the U.K. Labour Party leader (at the time a backbencher) signed a parliamentary motion in 2011 calling for Holocaust Memorial Day to be renamed.

Corbyn backed a proposal by John McDonnell that Britain should rename the event Genocide Memorial Day – Never Again for Anyone. (McDonnell is now Corbyn's shadow chancellor in the opposition.) Further, the debate was slated to take place on Holocaust Memorial Day.

Reducing the importance of the Holocaust is merely a step towards condemning Israel and the US.

Greg

 

[Penelope]

Now you know why I refer to it as WWII, the jews want to make it all about themselves and I refuse to do that.
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Fatalities:

It is estimated that around 15,000,000 soldiers died in battle during World War 2. Military deaths, which include soldiers missing in action as well as fatalities due to disease, accidents and prisoners of war deaths, along with battle deaths, are estimated to be between 22,000,000 to 30,000,000.

However, what made World War 2 so deadly, in addition to the unforeseen scale of the battle, was the targeted extermination of civilian populations. Ethnic cleansing had appeared in previous wars, notably the Armenian Genocide of World War 1, but it had never been carried out with the full power of an industrialized society as had Germany against its Jewish, Roma, and disabled populations. Civilian deaths, including Holocaust victims and those killed through crimes against humanity, strategic bombing and population transfers are estimated to total between 19,000,000 and 30,000,000. Civilians killed by war-related diseases and famine counted between 19,000,000 and 25,000,000.



Countries with the Highest Fatalities

How many people died in World War 2 in terms of the highest number of fatalities in one nation? According to estimates, the Soviet Union suffered the highest amount of total deaths (including military and civilian) with between 21,800,000 and 28,000,00 dying during World War 2. This is due to the sheer level of manpower provided, the numbers killed in German sieges, and Russian battle tactics that paid little consideration to the preservation of their soldiers’ lives.

How many people died in World War 2 in terms of the highest number of fatalities in a Far Eastern nation? China is second in total number of deaths with between 10,000,000 and 20,000,000 (although some say that the civilian toll might have been much higher) and then Germany with between 7,000,000 to 9,000,000 deaths. Other countries that suffered between 2,000,000 and 6,000,000 deaths include Poland, Dutch East Indies, Japan and India.

How Many People Died in World War 2? - History

 

[Penelope]

Read and weep. I prefer to look at it as WWII as the amount of Jewish deaths that occurred are smaller in number, as well as one could say , the Jews started it as evidenced by "Judea declares war on Germany" in 1933, even though they were paying for WWI and the great depression hit the whole globe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Poles, like the Jews, were considered by the Nazis to be “Untermenschen” (sub-humans) to be extinguished. The goal of Operation Tannenberg was to identify the members of the Polish middle class: public officials, scholars, actors, Catholic clergy, and murder them. It is estimated that in the norther part of Poland called Pomerania, which was of special German interest, 36,000 to 42,000 Poles were killed in mass executions before the end of 1939.

Snip

But it is also true that Poles were targeted for extermination as well. Since the Polish population was much larger than the Jewish one, the methods employed to extinguish the Poles were to be different.

The first targets were prominent citizens and intellectuals, and political opposition – people suspected of being members of the underground resistance.

The first mass transport to Auschwitz occurred on June 14, 1940, and included 728 Polish political prisoners and a small group of Jews.

Snip

The Jews had to wear the Star of David; the Poles had to wear a red triangle. They were equally brutalized, deprived of their humanity and condemned to death. In the concentration and labor camps they lived longer; in the death camps they were subjected to immediate murder. But in the eyes of their German oppressors, their fate was meant to be same.

Today Auschwitz is a symbol of the Jewish Holocaust. It is true that the Poles were mainly in Auschwitz I, which was a concentration camp, whereas the majority of the Jews was directed straight to Birkenau, which was a death camp. However, since they were both classified as Untermenschen, both Jews and Poles would ultimately face extermination.

Poland and the Jews: A few facts about Poland's WWII history

So you have come around? You admit now that Jews actually were exterminated in gas chambers in mass numbers?

Just so you can save your breath: yes, WW2 was a horrid atrocity for many people and millions and millions died who were NOT Jewish. We know this, Penny.

No, I do not even suggest the Poles and Jews were killed in ovens, they were probably buried deep or burned, that is what you do with dead bodies.