Hmmm....Mexico has extreme gun control, but 30% of guns sold to Mexican government go missing....wanna guess who gets them?

[RetiredGySgt]

Universal background check - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is unconstitutional and serves only one purpose to require registration of all firearms in the USA also unconstitutional.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And not to even have to mention the 'Charleston loohole.

You already mentioned it.

 

[Donald H]

You already mentioned it.

No, but you may have seen it in one of the links.

In any case I still agree with 2A on government being responsible for the horrendous slaughter by gun. Gun owners aren't and he was right on that too. The NRA bosses are but they have been reduced to being a criminal enterprise that spends members' money on the finer things in life.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Mexico is full of illegal American guns that were smuggled across the border.

Full? Not full. Only a small percentage of the guns in Mexico are smuggled into Mexico from the states.

 

[Abatis]

Mexico buys guns from the U.S. government....30% of those guns go missing....

All this recent article does is confirm that what was common before, is still happening.

The diversion of "direct military sales" from the US to the Government of Mexico (GOM) became a topic back at the very beginning of the Obama administration.

Previous State Dept investigations put the diversion at 26% back then. This became an issue because Obama / Clinton exploded the number of those arms sales to Mexico ten-fold in 2009 without any assurances that Mexico had any handle on the diversion to the cartels.

The numbers of AR-15's sold to the GOM annually hovered around 2,400 through the 2000's; in 2009 is suddenly blew-up to 20K+. 2009 is the only year we have numbers for, after this became an issue, direct sales numbers to the GOM were made secret . . . For all anyone knows it could have balloned to 50K or 100K; sounds like a good FOIA!

The Clinton State Dept. was well aware of the diversions and asked the GOM about the final outcomes of certain earlier contracts and if the weapons were still in the care and control of the GOM:

"Did GOM receive all 1,030 AR-15 type rifles exported under license 050016624? Can you provide documentation demonstrating receipt of the rifles by SEDENA? Can you provide documentation demonstrating that the firearms were transferred to and received by the Secretarias de Seguriada Publica in Baja, Chihuahua, and Michoacan? . . . Please account for the current location of the 1,030 AR-15 type rifles."​

​

Cable: 09STATE57530_a

If one was paying attention back then you might remember when Obama first took office there was much fanfare about USA sourced guns being found at Mexican crime scenes and Obama's deceptive statement that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States” . . . All to push gun control in the USA, especially an "assault weapon" ban and special rules for FFL's in the SW border states.

Besides the deceptive nature of the statement itself, there is an undercurrent of duplicity when one folds in the expanded direct military sales . . .

See, those traces didn't necessarily need to point to regular gun store retail sales from US gun DEALERS and then trafficked across the border to support the narrative, they just needed to simply be traced back to the USA . . .

They knew pushing 20K+ AR's into the pipeline with a 26% diversion means they could guarantee 5,000+ AR's a year would immediately flow into the cartels and they would be used in gun fights . . . helping the 90% false claim along, and make it become true.

Now understand that the cartel being armed from the arms diversion from the GOM were the Zetas, and the cartel benefiting from Fast and Furious were their enemy, the Sinaloas and the evil Obama / Clinton / Napolitano grand plan comes into focus.

 

[2aguy]

And not to even have to mention the 'Charleston loohole.

There is no loophole...

 

[Donald H]

There is no loophole...

It's enough for now that you understand that government is responsible for not stopping the slaughter with guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

There is no loophole...

Correct.
it is impossible to legally avoid the background checks prescribed by state and federal law.
Thus, no loophole.

 

[Donald H]

Correct.
it is impossible to legally avoid the background checks prescribed by state and federal law.
Thus, no loophole.

Legally is the key word.
But legality has been sacrificed and thrown to the winds in America since Barr's run as AG. It hasn't yet been restored by MG.
And now as it relates to the slaughter with guns, vigilante justice is being validated by the excuse of it being 'self defense'.
The standard set in other democracies differs.

Will the 22% of guns sold without a background check, grow larger? The sentiments of the pro-gun side at least are in favour of less background checks. That's a point that's worth debating.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Legally is the key word.
But legality has been sacrificed and thrown to the winds in America since Barr's run as AG. It hasn't yet been restored by MG.
And now as it relates to the slaughter with guns, vigilante justice is being validated by the excuse of it being 'self defense'.
The standard set in other democracies differs.

Will the 22% of guns sold without a background check, grow larger? The sentiments of the pro-gun side at least are in favour of less background checks. That's a point that's worth debating.

Provide a link to the claim 22 percent of all firearms sales are with out background checks, I call bullshit.

 

[Donald H]

Provide a link to the claim 22 percent of all firearms sales are with out background checks, I call bullshit.

I subtracted 78% from 100% and so I can't provide a direct link. The number can be debated but I would tend toward the 22% being larger, due to illegal gun epidemic in progress. The key word is 'legally' as I've suggested to one of the others.

 

[2aguy]

It's enough for now that you understand that government is responsible for not stopping the slaughter with guns.

No.......that's not quite what I mean......

The problem is that our democrat party here in the states is releasing known, violent criminals over and over again, and on top of that, they are attacking our police, making it impossible for them to arrest and detain criminals...and then the democrat party releases the violent criminals they do catch...

That is the problem......you are too ignorant to understand the issue which is why you post the things you do...

 

[2aguy]

I subtracted 78% from 100% and so I can't provide a direct link. The number can be debated but I would tend toward the 22% being larger, due to illegal gun epidemic in progress. The key word is 'legally' as I've suggested to one of the others.

Criminals selling guns to other criminals do not undergo background checks...that is already against the law and we can already arrest any criminal caught with an illegal gun...

 

[M14 Shooter]

Legally is the key word.

And so you agree - there are no loopholes.
Good to know.

 

[Donald H]

and we can already arrest any criminal caught with an illegal gun...

No you can't, at least in the sense of your government being 'unable' to arrest a significant number of those with guns. And also no you can't in the sense of there being no will to arrest anybody with a gun until the person commits the crime with his/her gun.

They're all good guys with illegal guns until they commit a crime with their gun and become bad guys.

Which brings to mind a possible solution to the gun problem! Begin a program of confiscating guns from those who haven't committed a crime with their guns, based on the guns not being legally obtained. Would you support that?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I subtracted 78% from 100% and so I can't provide a direct link. The number can be debated but I would tend toward the 22% being larger, due to illegal gun epidemic in progress. The key word is 'legally' as I've suggested to one of the others.

Illegal gun sales are by definition illegal of course they dont have background checks, Legal sales are covered completely by background checks. And even if 3 days pass the background check is STILL completed and if the buyer is disqualified the cops get involved.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No you can't, at least in the sense of your government being 'unable' to arrest a significant number of those with guns. And also no you can't in the sense of there being no will to arrest anybody with a gun until the person commits the crime with his/her gun.

They're all good guys with illegal guns until they commit a crime with their gun and become bad guys.

Which brings to mind a possible solution to the gun problem! Begin a program of confiscating guns from those who haven't committed a crime with their guns, based on the guns not being legally obtained. Would you support that?

We have rights how do you propose cops and ATF FIND the illegal firearms except by arresting criminals and raids on criminal enterprises?

 

[M14 Shooter]

No you can't, at least in the sense of your government being 'unable' to arrest a significant number of those with guns.

People aren't arrested until the state can show probable cause that they committed a crime.
The state is -more- than able to arrest those whose crimes they are aware of.
So, your "unable to arrest" isn't accurate.

They're all good guys with illegal guns until they commit a crime with their gun and become bad guys.

There are no illegal guns. There -are- people who illegally posses guns.

Which brings to mind a possible solution to the gun problem! Begin a program of confiscating guns from those who haven't committed a crime with their guns,

If these people legally own their guns, why do you think they can be legally confiscated?

 

[Donald H]

Illegal gun sales are by definition illegal of course they dont have background checks, Legal sales are covered completely by background checks. And even if 3 days pass the background check is STILL completed and if the buyer is disqualified the cops get involved.

I can't accept your evidence in the face of more reliable evidence.

Universal Background Checks

Without universal background checks, millions of guns end up in the hands of individuals at an elevated risk of committing violence.

giffords.org

And the reference to 45% appears to suggest that we up the ante from 22% to something much larger.

Are we now going to have to frame the word 'illegal' in the sense of that which is mentioned in that link?
I have to suggest that legality becomes a moot point in light of the number or guns that are sold with no background checks.

(see my question to 2A on the confiscation of guns from those who have committed no crime with their illegally procured guns)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I can't accept your evidence in the face of more reliable evidence.

Universal Background Checks

Without universal background checks, millions of guns end up in the hands of individuals at an elevated risk of committing violence.

giffords.org

And the reference to 45% appears to suggest that we up the ante from 22% to something much larger.

Are we now going to have to frame the word 'illegal' in the sense of that which is mentioned in that link?
I have to suggest that legality becomes a moot point in light of the number or guns that are sold with no background checks.

(see my question to 2A on the confiscation of guns from those who have committed no crime with their illegally procured guns)

I asked again how do you FIND the firearms to confiscate them? And except private sales all sales of firearms legally sold in this Country have a background check. You dont get to claim illegal sales which dont have background checks because they are ILLEGAL skew the number.