Zone1 Have we lost The Bible Story?

So as a single entity you can love but God cannot? Sounds like you are putting limits on God.

Um, I'm not alone here. I have friends, family, brothers and sisters in Christ, etc.

An attribute of God is that He is loving. The Christian God had an object of love even before He created--the Trinity, the three in one. Who did Allah love? What was the object of his love?

That's the difference.
 
So you agree with me and most people of faith. That's a big step for an atheist! ;)
I think you have it backwards. I don't know about most, but many people of faith believe that God is always justified in killing people and only Noah, for example, was good, everyone else deserved their fate.
 
I think you have it backwards. I don't know about most, but many people of faith believe that God is always justified in killing people and only Noah, for example, was good, everyone else deserved their fate.

None is righteous, no not one--Romans 3:10

Not even Noah.

No one measures up to God's standards. No one.
 
Of course! And don't be silly, the students don't care what I believe, they care about their grade--and their own personal belief. I tell them their answer can begin with, "The text teaches...." I explain if they ever feel boxed in, they simply need to look into their own hearts and decide what is more important to them: Their personal belief or their grade. For those who are still uncertain, I do add that being true to a grade passes, while being true to oneself is everlasting.
That sounds like it would be safe to say.
Determine the theme/lesson the story teaches. Determine what story style was used to present the lesson. (Talking animals? Fable. How something came to be? Just so. Out-of-sight heroism? Legend/Folklore.)

As far as Jonah and the big fish: Could be true, might be metaphor. Either way, we learn that Jonah was in a dark place when he disregarded the words of the Lord, and emerged into light once he decided to follow them. Is there truly any benefit whether the dark place was in the belly of a fish, or simply a dark place. It appears that Jonah's shipmates thought he brought bad luck. Was it possible they tossed him in the belly of the ship, the brig, until they came ashore and evicted him from the ship? How would where Jonah spent the three days change the story of him turning from disobedience to obedience?

Those of us who have experienced miracles in our own lives, are not quick to dismiss miracles in the lives of others. What purpose does an atheist have for picking a story apart? Is s/he looking for the lesson/theme, or is s/he searching for an excuse not to believe? Let every atheist know: You are excused from believing. Move on while those who remain behind discuss the theme/lesson.
 
Um, I'm not alone here. I have friends, family, brothers and sisters in Christ, etc.

An attribute of God is that He is loving. The Christian God had an object of love even before He created--the Trinity, the three in one. Who did Allah love? What was the object of his love?

That's the difference.
So Allah/God needed something to love but the idea of creation didn't qualify? You are limiting God's ability to love. A God so mysterious and who we know so little about.
 
Those who end up in the Lake of Fire are CONSUMED and dead forever.

It only matters what the Scriptures say -- not your church
That's why I explained what scripture says, and added that the Church says the same.
 
So Allah/God needed something to love but the idea of creation didn't qualify? You are limiting God's ability to love. A God so mysterious and who we know so little about.

You are not understanding what I'm saying.

Before Creation, when God in eternity was in existence with no creation, the Christian God had love and objects of love. Eternally, they are Father-Son-Holy Spirit.

Allah in eternity is all by himself. Muslims claim he is love. Who did he love before time began?
 
I think you have it backwards. I don't know about most, but many people of faith believe that God is always justified in killing people and only Noah, for example, was good, everyone else deserved their fate.
No, I don't have it backwards. But, as is often noted the Bible is for both those who splash in the shallows and those who dive in more deeply. Those who enjoy arguing with scripture stay in the shallows. Those who are after greater understanding dive in more deeply. I invite you into greater depths--perhaps the depths are not as playful as the shallows, but it is where beauty and wisdom dwell.
 
Determine the theme/lesson the story teaches. Determine what story style was used to present the lesson. (Talking animals? Fable. How something came to be? Just so. Out-of-sight heroism? Legend/Folklore.)

As far as Jonah and the big fish: Could be true, might be metaphor. Either way, we learn that Jonah was in a dark place when he disregarded the words of the Lord, and emerged into light once he decided to follow them. Is there truly any benefit whether the dark place was in the belly of a fish, or simply a dark place. It appears that Jonah's shipmates thought he brought bad luck. Was it possible they tossed him in the belly of the ship, the brig, until they came ashore and evicted him from the ship? How would where Jonah spent the three days change the story of him turning from disobedience to obedience?
When the question is on that story, then you believe nothing, it seems. I can understand that.

On the Ark story and the great flood, I can commend you for rejecting the story as not actually happening. I don't think that your opinion is a majority opinion.
Those of us who have experienced miracles in our own lives, are not quick to dismiss miracles in the lives of others.
I've never been convinced that miracles actually happen. There is no evidence of a miracle. That's also because I reject the supernatural completely. I'm always open to hearing of one!
What purpose does an atheist have for picking a story apart? Is s/he looking for the lesson/theme, or is s/he searching for an excuse not to believe? Let every atheist know: You are excused from believing. Move on while those who remain behind discuss the theme/lesson.
Atheists don't have anything in common other than not being convinced that there is a god. Otherwise, my interest is in part to prevent innocent children and even adults from accepting myths and what I see as lies.


You have no right to tell me to move along, any more than I would have that right. If you only want agreement and comfort then you surely know that this is not the right place for you!

I'm not going to allow any Christian to convince me to be impolite and vindictive.

What is your purpose here?
 
only Noah, for example, was good, everyone else deserved their fate.
Again, explore the depths. What made Noah different from all the others? The story paints the story of a man who does not speak...and calls him good. When Noah does speak....He speaks a curse and once more we see division within the family of God. When it comes to goodness, we are a feeble, infirm people. We live in brokenness.
 
When the question is on that story, then you believe nothing, it seems. I can understand that.
I don't think you do. My college classes were English, creative writing, journalism. Let's take your favorite fictional story. Do you remember the setting? Do you believe the setting? What part did the setting play in the theme?
 
That's funny. Being "safe" never crossed my mind. How should I have been (or be) more daring?
You could have gambled and said what you wanted to say, by mentioning the god. Then you would have been at risk of disobeying the rules.

That tactic was put to bed in the Dover I.D. court. Religion should have never presumed to be able to invent their own science.

I'm learning more about your purpose here. I think that you threw a monkey wrench into the gears when I motivated you to say that your rejected the Noah's Ark story with the animals. Most on this board are going to have a lot of trouble with that approach. You didn't need to do that you know. Other Christians will believe even if they have to fly by the seat of their pants!

I of course, gladly accepted your enlightened version of the story. We hardly ever disagree.
 
On the Ark story and the great flood, I can commend you for rejecting the story as not actually happening. I don't think that your opinion is a majority opinion.
I did not say the story didn't happen. I said, based on the story, the great flood was not planet-wide, it was a local flood where waters covered the ground as far as the eye could see. People who do not take care in reading the story--do not take into account its original language--come up with the idea that the author meant "planet wide". I don't believe that is the author's intent. Looking closely at the author's emphasis on certain aspects of his characters, I wonder if he saw the way opening for a new beginning for mankind, and in the end was mourning the reality that humans went right back to their old ways.
 
I don't think you do. My college classes were English, creative writing, journalism. Let's take your favorite fictional story. Do you remember the setting? Do you believe the setting? What part did the setting play in the theme?
It was about the 'Little engine that could'. The setting was a steep hill and he had a heavy load. The theme was that we can succeed if we think we can! The little engine did.

Strange though, I remember too all the big engines mocking him and making fun of him. Then in the end they all became friends.
 
Atheists don't have anything in common other than not being convinced that there is a god. Otherwise, my interest is in part to prevent innocent children and even adults from accepting myths and what I see as lies.


You have no right to tell me to move along, any more than I would have that right. If you only want agreement and comfort then you surely know that this is not the right place for you!

I'm not going to allow any Christian to convince me to be impolite and vindictive.

What is your purpose here?
You don't want to move on? You prefer sitting in the shallows? Sounds dull to me, but to each his own. Would you have preferred me to say, "Stay where you are."

My purpose? Purely recreational. I enjoy discovery, research, delving deeply into Biblical wisdom. As selfish as it is, I am only here for myself and my own enjoyment.
 
15th post
I did not say the story didn't happen. I said, based on the story, the great flood was not planet-wide,
If it was just a local flood and the pairs of animals weren't taken aboard, etc., then you have declared that the great flood didn't happen.

You're never going to take that back from me my friend.
it was a local flood where waters covered the ground as far as the eye could see. People who do not take care in reading the story--do not take into account its original language--come up with the idea that the author meant "planet wide". I don't believe that is the author's intent. Looking closely at the author's emphasis on certain aspects of his characters, I wonder if he saw the way opening for a new beginning for mankind, and in the end was mourning the reality that humans went right back to their old ways

I have no quarrel with your interpretation of the story and it's meaning.
You can't have it both ways my friend. Please don't attempt to deceive me now, after we have come so far together.
 
You don't want to move on? You prefer sitting in the shallows? Sounds dull to me, but to each his own. Would you have preferred me to say, "Stay where you are."

My purpose? Purely recreational. I enjoy discovery, research, delving deeply into Biblical wisdom. As selfish as it is, I am only here for myself and my own enjoyment.
Not just your enjoyment!!
 
You could have gambled and said what you wanted to say, by mentioning the god. Then you would have been at risk of disobeying the rules.
Hmmm. So the focus should have been on me, not my student's question? The question was how do they pass a test when they don't believe in evolution. My response was, "Did you learn what the text taught?" The answer was, Yes. Then note what the text taught and move on. I even said if they wanted (and had time), they could add what they thought about evolution.

Mentioning God does not break the rules. When students talk about God and include me, I say little, but listen. When students are not accurate in what they say about another faith or religion, I offer a correction which is always appreciated by those whose faith is being targeted. School boards might be be fretting over religion being mentioned in school, but the students aren't. First, it seldom is brought up, but when it is, it has always been matter-of-factly, with no more import than discussing the weather or their favorite team. Students include me in those discussions as well. They are more interested in my favorite football team than my religion, and sometimes what my favorite subject is to substitute teach.
 
I'm learning more about your purpose here. I think that you threw a monkey wrench into the gears when I motivated you to say that your rejected the Noah's Ark story with the animals. Most on this board are going to have a lot of trouble with that approach. You didn't need to do that you know. Other Christians will believe even if they have to fly by the seat of their pants!
I don't reject the story of Noah's Ark, so if you think I do, then we definitely disagree about something.
I of course, gladly accepted your enlightened version of the story. We hardly ever disagree.
I don't have an "enlightened" version. I simply related what my Hebrew friend pointed out when focusing on the actual Hebrew instead of the King James English.
 

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