Has Democracy Jumped the Shark?

dblack

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
 
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kyzr

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Take a deep breath and think about this. The US has been "jumping the shark" since 1776. We have a very sensible middle class that somehow manages to keep the government from going too far left or right. Just look at the last few elections and you can't explain an electorate that elected Obama twice, and then Trump twice, or Bush twice and Bubba Clinton twice....and on and on.
 

progressive hunter

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I no longer have any faith the democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get, are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
a democracy has never worked and why the US went with a republic,, the problem we have is the party system that keeps the people divided and where corruption is par for the course,,,
 

bendog

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I no longer have any faith the democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get, are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
I don't see a great change from say Andrew Jackson's or Grover Cleveland days.

But it's different from anything in my lifetime, and that actually goes back to the last days of Truman … though my math skills have declined. LOL
 
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dblack

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I no longer have any faith the democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get, are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
I don't see a great change from say Andrew Jackson's or Grover Cleveland days.

But it's different from anything in my lifetime, and that actually goes back to the last days of Truman … though my math skills have declined. LOL
I think it's changed markedly. The advertising industry, especially with the advent of television and the internet, has become all too adept at manipulating uncritical thinkers.
 

task0778

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We need something else. But what?
My take? A viable 3rd party that can garner enough support in the congress to prevent either major party rom achieving a 51% majority. At least for starters, we do not want the Senate to kill the filibuster, thereby allowing the majority party to do as they please if they also hold the House and have a president that will accept whatever the Congress decides to do. On that day our democracy takes a huge step towards one-party rule; they assume power, do whatever they want and generally fuck things up and then get themselves voted out. The other party gets in, repeals what the last party did , does whatever they want instead, fucks things up, and ten gets themselves voted out. And so on.

What could break the cycle is a 3rd party with enough support and seats in Congress that requires some compromise and cooperation where none exists today. OK, almost none. IMHO, until that happens, we're fucked. Of course, IMHO that 3rd party should require some fiscal sanity and enough clout to prevent either of the 2 major parties from running wild. There was a group of politicians awhile back that came up with a compromise $1.5 trillion COVID Relief bill; I think we need at least one moderate political party that somewhat restrains the other 2 and basically forces some give and take. Doesn't have to have a presidential candidate at least to begin with, but considering the choices we've had over the past several elections, a reasonable candidate would be nice. But if the election gets thrown into the House then you want that 3rd party to be necessary for whoever ultimately becomes president.
 

TroglocratsRdumb

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For the most part, presidents and members of Congress are chosen by the powers that be.

I can't stand him, but Trump is the first I've seen in my lifetime not beholden to the DNC or GOP.
buster is bustin some moves
 

Turtlesoup

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
That is why we were founded as a REPUBLIC with representatives and not all allowed to vote---Mob rule corrupts governments and democracies are mob rule. Not everyone is created equal---1/2 the population have below average iq. The founders never intended the town drunks and losers to have an equal say in the government as those who actually contribute to the country.
 

bendog

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We need something else. But what?
My take? A viable 3rd party that can garner enough support in the congress to prevent either major party rom achieving a 51% majority. At least for starters, we do not want the Senate to kill the filibuster, thereby allowing the majority party to do as they please if they also hold the House and have a president that will accept whatever the Congress decides to do. On that day our democracy takes a huge step towards one-party rule; they assume power, do whatever they want and generally fuck things up and then get themselves voted out. The other party gets in, repeals what the last party did , does whatever they want instead, fucks things up, and ten gets themselves voted out. And so on.

What could break the cycle is a 3rd party with enough support and seats in Congress that requires some compromise and cooperation where none exists today. OK, almost none. IMHO, until that happens, we're fucked. Of course, IMHO that 3rd party should require some fiscal sanity and enough clout to prevent either of the 2 major parties from running wild. There was a group of politicians awhile back that came up with a compromise $1.5 trillion COVID Relief bill; I think we need at least one moderate political party that somewhat restrains the other 2 and basically forces some give and take. Doesn't have to have a presidential candidate at least to begin with, but considering the choices we've had over the past several elections, a reasonable candidate would be nice. But if the election gets thrown into the House then you want that 3rd party to be necessary for whoever ultimately becomes president.
 

BertramN

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
Not to worry, the mouth breathing idiots you refer to are helping the impeached president trump turn the United States of America into the Fascist States of America with their Führer trump as dictator.

The impeached president trump's appointed stooges to the USSC had their written decision prepared weeks ago to set this disaster in motion after November 3rd.

The mouth breathing, knuckle dragging RWNJs are giddy with anticipation.


.
 

WillHaftawaite

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
Not to worry, the mouth breathing idiots you refer to are helping the impeached president trump turn the United States of America into the Fascist States of America with their Führer trump as dictator.

The impeached president trump's appointed stooges to the USSC had their written decision prepared weeks ago to set this disaster in motion after November 3rd.

The mouth breathing, knuckle dragging RWNJs are giddy with anticipation.


.
Please take note: This thread is in Politics, not Conspiracy Theories.
 

task0778

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I can't stand him, but Trump is the first I've seen in my lifetime not beholden to the DNC or GOP.
I have to agree. Trump is a triumph of democracy. I rest my case.
Trump's election in 2016 WAS a triumph of democracy, or more precisely our republican form of gov't (not the party). The voters across the country were dissatisfied with their federal gov't and voted in a true outsider. For better or worse that's what we got, warts and all. Was his administration good gov't? Some say yes, and others say not so much. Maybe part of the problem is that we expect too much; a republic doesn't often deliver anything close to perfection. But what is a better alternative?
 
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dblack

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
Not to worry, the mouth breathing idiots you refer to are helping the impeached president trump turn the United States of America into the Fascist States of America with their Führer trump as dictator.

The impeached president trump's appointed stooges to the USSC had their written decision prepared weeks ago to set this disaster in motion after November 3rd.

The mouth breathing, knuckle dragging RWNJs are giddy with anticipation.
And? It's not clear whether you're agreeing with me, or disagreeing.
 
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dblack

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We'd need enough 3rd party reps and senators to be able to deny both parties 50%plus1 vote. Imo that's were Perot failed.
I don't see that happening until we change the election system (ranked choice voting), or change Congressional requirements such that real consensus was necessary. Something like a two-thirds vote for passing anything.

And the problem with amending the Constitution, is that the dummies will still have to sign off on it.
 

bendog

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Well so was Reagan's and the contrast is pretty blatant. FDR's election was shaking (though even before my time) because supposedly it had demographics jumping from the gop that had dominated
We'd need enough 3rd party reps and senators to be able to deny both parties 50%plus1 vote. Imo that's were Perot failed.
I don't see that happening until we change the election system (ranked choice voting), or change Congressional requirement such that real consensus was necessary. Something like a two-thirds vote for passing anything.
Ending the EC is the first step. I'd prefer each state just apportioned its EV among candidates by it's own state vote. But the only way to get there is via the compact.

We've had periods of three party govt. but as someone said, maybe you, our national media and corporate consumerism tends to limit what we are shown as the options
 

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