Has Democracy Jumped the Shark?

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dblack

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
You sound like a sore loser
Thanks!
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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“Has Democracy Jumped the Shark?”

No.

The issue isn’t democracy, the blame and fault rest solely with the American people who failed to keep the Constitutional Republic the Framers gave us.

It was the intent of the Founding Generation that the rights and liberties of the people not be rendered the spoils of political war – that our rights and protected liberties be safeguarded from the capricious partisanism of politicians and judges.

If one’s party or faction was voted out of power, or if one’s candidate failed to win election, a citizen understood that although he might be in the political minority, he needn’t fear that his rights and protected liberties would be in jeopardy by the acts of the political majority.

Tragically, that hasn’t been the case for decades.

For much of the 20th Century, the right to vote, the right to privacy, the right to due process and equal protection of the law have all been under attack by political ideologues and their bad faith laws and measures intended to violate the people’s rights and protected liberties.

The remedy to this aberration is democracy.
 
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dblack

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“Has Democracy Jumped the Shark?”

No.

The issue isn’t democracy, the blame and fault rest solely with the American people who failed to keep the Constitutional Republic the Framers gave us.

It was the intent of the Founding Generation that the rights and liberties of the people not be rendered the spoils of political war – that our rights and protected liberties be safeguarded from the capricious partisanism of politicians and judges.

If one’s party or faction was voted out of power, or if one’s candidate failed to win election, a citizen understood that although he might be in the political minority, he needn’t fear that his rights and protected liberties would be in jeopardy by the acts of the political majority.

Tragically, that hasn’t been the case for decades.

For much of the 20th Century, the right to vote, the right to privacy, the right to due process and equal protection of the law have all been under attack by political ideologues and their bad faith laws and measures intended to violate the people’s rights and protected liberties.

The remedy to this aberration is democracy.
Well, blow me down. I find myself agreeing with C. That's worrisome.

Anyway, while I do think there's more to it, the erosion of Constitutional limits on government is at the core of our democratic dysfunction. Simply put, it shouldn't matter much who wins an election because there shouldn't be much they can do to impact your life. But when government is running everything, when they have broad and deep power to impact society, who wins the election could, literally, be a matter of life and death. And under such circumstances people will lie, cheat and steal - do whatever is necessary, to steer the election in their favor.
 
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C_Clayton_Jones

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
That attitude is the very bedrock excuse of every fascist dictator that ever murdered democracy for their own selfish ambition. If you think democracy is a failure you need to look at what happens to countries that stop respecting the will of the people.
I'm not really saying democracy is the problem, just that we're doing it wrong. Do you disagree? Was Trump an example of democracy producing good government in your view?
Nope he has been a disaster of epic proportions that has ironically put democrats in a better position then they have been for decades. If democracy survives his presidency it will have been refreshed by the vanquishing of a tyrant.
Hmm... and what of the next tyrant? Wash, rinse, repeat?
There's always opportunistic bastards lying in wait. Perhaps people need to be periodically reminded that when democracy sucks democracy can also be the cure.
True.

In fact, now that the people can no longer seek relief in the courts from discriminatory laws and measures intended to violate the rights of citizens, democracy is the only recourse the people have.

The political process must replace the judicial.
 
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dblack

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The political process must replace the judicial.
That would be one poor replacement. And certainly nothing the minority could ever rely on. The people most at risk of being abused by government are never going to find solace in the political process.
 
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That is why we were founded as a REPUBLIC with representatives and not all allowed to vote---Mob rule corrupts governments and democracies are mob rule. Not everyone is created equal---1/2 the population have below average iq. The founders never intended the town drunks and losers to have an equal say in the government as those who actually contribute to the country.
That is why I have said on several occasions on this board that there should be an IQ test before you can vote. That means 99 per cent of the Deplorables would be out of the equation and you might end up with a one-party state.
 

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I don't see that happening until we change the election system (ranked choice voting), or change Congressional requirements such that real consensus was necessary. Something like a two-thirds vote for passing anything.

And the problem with amending the Constitution, is that the dummies will still have to sign off on it.
What about more Congressmen and women? When was the last time there was an increase and how much has the population increased since then?
 

beautress

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We're in the twilight of our republic. I'd prefer that states just start seceding. The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.
Demos are going commie. My Dad had his life rearranged with waking up screaming at night, inoperable shrapnel in his body that set off alarms in airports for life. Beat em up if they don't fly right. For the sacrifi es of millions of service folks.
 

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Best government of my 60+ years.

Name one better?

Here is an example of good government.

{ On Thursday morning, the Commerce Department announced that the gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of goods and services produced across the U.S. economy, surged by 33.1% on an annualized basis in the three-month period from July through September. The previous post-World War II record was a 16.7% increase in 1950. }


Yes I know, Orange Man Bad supports civil rights and all those yucky individual freedoms you are dead set against....
Past 60 years? Clinton. Bush One. Obama. Possibly Ford. He didn't do much right, but didn't do much wrong. Trump is easily the worst US govt in my lifetime. Possibly ever, although I wasn't around in the 1920s.

You GDP numbers are skewed. What's the base that it is working from?
 

WillHaftawaite

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I can't stand him, but Trump is the first I've seen in my lifetime not beholden to the DNC or GOP.
You make it sound like it's a good thing.
So you're only criterion for a president is that he isn't beholden to either of the major parties? Pretty shitty if you ask me.
I'd rather he 'be beholden' to the American people.

the 'major parties' have done little more than drive people apart.
 

WillHaftawaite

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That is why we were founded as a REPUBLIC with representatives and not all allowed to vote---Mob rule corrupts governments and democracies are mob rule. Not everyone is created equal---1/2 the population have below average iq. The founders never intended the town drunks and losers to have an equal say in the government as those who actually contribute to the country.
That is why I have said on several occasions on this board that there should be an IQ test before you can vote. That means 99 per cent of the Deplorables would be out of the equation and you might end up with a one-party state.
That means 99 per cent of the Deplorables would be out of the equation
and just as many dems.
 

The Original Tree

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
We are not a Democracy. End Thread
 

Norman

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
It was always a bad idea, and the founders knew it very well.

Any idea based on the fallacious concept of equality is likely to be total bullshit.

Placing some restrictions would be a start, as there used to be.
 

Batcat

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I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?
First we need to insure there is only one rule of law in this nation and NO ONE is above it.

Then we need to clean up the FBI which is rotten at the top if not all the way down.

Finally we need to restore journalism in our nation. Right now the Main Steam Media has determined its main job is to educate and quide people rather than simply report the facts and let people decide. The MSM is no longer the watch dog of our government but instead the lapdog if the Democratic Party. It is effectively the propaganda wing of the Democratic Part.
 

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