Has Democracy Jumped the Shark?

[Uncensored2008]

I'm not really saying democracy is the problem, just that we're doing it wrong. Do you disagree? Was Trump an example of democracy producing good government in your view?

Best government of my 60+ years.

Name one better?

Here is an example of good government.

{ On Thursday morning, the Commerce Department announced that the gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of goods and services produced across the U.S. economy, surged by 33.1% on an annualized basis in the three-month period from July through September. The previous post-World War II record was a 16.7% increase in 1950. }

CNN, MSNBC prime-time shows skip historic 33.1% GDP growth amid economic recovery

CNN and MSNBC may still call themselves 24-hour news networks, but their most-watched shows in prime time continue to avoid some of the biggest headlines.

www.foxnews.com

Yes I know, Orange Man Bad supports civil rights and all those yucky individual freedoms you are dead set against....

 

[dblack]

Democracy has failed, not only this being whoever can manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers to go to the polls but also so many politicians are easily corrupted either by bags of filthy lucre or by other types of blackmail. Many politicians vote against the wishes of their electorate, they are beholden to whatever Lobby Group has bought them or whoever is blackmailing them.

The Government has not been of the people for many decades, President Trump wants to give the Government back to the people, this is why all these Shadowy Groups have been fighting him, they want to keep the control and for the people to have as little control over their lives as possible, no wonder they are all so orgasmic about the Human Rights abuses that the COVID-19 excuse is giving them, it is the road that leads them to 100% control over every man, woman and child.

People in charge as opposed to the Oligarchy is the central theme of dblack It is what he is determined to prevent. Any threat to the Oligarchy has him reacting strongly.

Hey, why don't you just PM me directly with your infatuation? We can spare the rest of the board that way.

 

[occupied]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

That attitude is the very bedrock excuse of every fascist dictator that ever murdered democracy for their own selfish ambition. If you think democracy is a failure you need to look at what happens to countries that stop respecting the will of the people.

I'm not really saying democracy is the problem, just that we're doing it wrong. Do you disagree? Was Trump an example of democracy producing good government in your view?

Nope he has been a disaster of epic proportions that has ironically put democrats in a better position then they have been for decades. If democracy survives his presidency it will have been refreshed by the vanquishing of a tyrant.

 

[dblack]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

That attitude is the very bedrock excuse of every fascist dictator that ever murdered democracy for their own selfish ambition. If you think democracy is a failure you need to look at what happens to countries that stop respecting the will of the people.

I'm not really saying democracy is the problem, just that we're doing it wrong. Do you disagree? Was Trump an example of democracy producing good government in your view?

Nope he has been a disaster of epic proportions that has ironically put democrats in a better position then they have been for decades. If democracy survives his presidency it will have been refreshed by the vanquishing of a tyrant.

Hmm... and what of the next tyrant? Wash, rinse, repeat?

 

[task0778]

How about a more fundamental question. What's so noble and virtuous about majority rule in the first place? Does anyone think that the majority is always, or even usually, right?

Well, for starters majority rule beats minority rule, no? If more people are for something or against it, then shouldn't that be the guiding factor? But it shouldn't be the ONLY factor, the people not in the majority oughta have some say and some control over what happens, because the majority isn't always right or maybe even usually right. Which is why the US Senate has the filibuster rules, unless you have a super majority you have to work with the minority to get something done and IMHO that's the way it should be.

Except for some time now nobody wants to work with the other side in Congress. The minority party wants to make the majority party look ineffective and therefore politically vulnerable in the next election, instead of doing the people's business as they should. And the majority party doesn't want to give up anything to the minority party that makes them look better to the voters. So, here we are - gridlock.

IMHO, the answer is NOT to abolish the filibuster and go with mob rule. The only answer I can see is a group of moderates from both parties that have enough members and power to thwart the majority party from imposing their will with a simple majority. AND enough power to prevent the minority party from obstructing anything that actually might be a good idea. Maybe a 3rd party is necessary to do that, because the voters don't seem to want to vote out the ideologues who will not cooperate with anybody.

 

[dblack]

How about a more fundamental question. What's so noble and virtuous about majority rule in the first place? Does anyone think that the majority is always, or even usually, right?

Well, for starters majority rule beats minority rule, no?

I'm not so sure.

If more people are for something or against it, then shouldn't that be the guiding factor?

Guiding factor? Sure. But far too many voters in the US see it as the deciding factor, in all cases.

But it shouldn't be the ONLY factor, the people not in the majority oughta have some say and some control over what happens, because the majority isn't always right or maybe even usually right. Which is why the US Senate has the filibuster rules, unless you have a super majority you have to work with the minority to get something done and IMHO that's the way it should be.

Except for some time now nobody wants to work with the other side in Congress. The minority party wants to make the majority party look ineffective and therefore politically vulnerable in the next election, instead of doing the people's business as they should. And the majority party doesn't want to give up anything to the minority party that makes them look better to the voters. So, here we are - gridlock.

IMHO, the answer is NOT to abolish the filibuster and go with mob rule. The only answer I can see is a group of moderates from both parties that have enough members and power to thwart the majority party from imposing their will with a simple majority. AND enough power to prevent the minority party from obstructing anything that actually might be a good idea. Maybe a 3rd party is necessary to do that, because the voters don't seem to want to vote out the ideologues who will not cooperate with anybody.

Agreed. I value most of our structural impediments to pure democracy. They were put there for a reason.

 

[CowboyTed]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

That is why we were founded as a REPUBLIC with representatives and not all allowed to vote---Mob rule corrupts governments and democracies are mob rule. Not everyone is created equal---1/2 the population have below average iq. The founders never intended the town drunks and losers to have an equal say in the government as those who actually contribute to the country.

democrats have millions of non-citizens voting. Foreign nationals with loyalty to other countries have equal say in the ruling on this nation. That is shear insanity.

You keep saying that... Trump's own committee couldn't find any... But he kept saying it because he knows that there is people out there who are gulible to believe him... There is people that fucking dumb...

 

[progressive hunter]

I no longer have any faith the democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get, are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

a democracy has never worked and why the US went with a republic,, the problem we have is the party system that keeps the people divided and where corruption is par for the course,,,

Sorry but US has barely a Republic... The Senate is controlled by a party who got 44% of the vote while the party that got 55% go minority... That is the opposite of what a Republic wants...

US has to respect Democracy more... Small States are over represented... California has over the combined population of 20 states and has 2 senators compared to 40...

Puerto Rico is bigger than Iowa or the four lowest states combined has no representation in the senate. And it shows, they have the lowest GDP per captia in US outside the territories...

THANKS FOR CONFIRMING MY OPINION,,,

 

[$ecular#eckler]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

The three-part separation theory is deployed incorrectly, and it causes the political chaos that trickles down causing the social chaos.

A Better Subdivisioning of the Three-part Model will Provide Better Checks & Balances

http://www.us4cc.info

www.usmessageboard.com

United States Fourth Continental Congress

The United States Fourth Continental Congress (US4CC) will probably be the designation for the inevitable venue that orders the succeeding charter to the subsisting United States Constitution that was composed in 1787 by the legendary Philadelphia Convention, which for convenience for...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[$ecular#eckler]

How about a more fundamental question. What's so noble and virtuous about majority rule in the first place?

It is supposed to be the pathway to social harmony if more people agree to how to do things.

Does anyone think that the majority is always, or even usually, right?

The majority tends to be right when presented the valid choices.

 

[occupied]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

That attitude is the very bedrock excuse of every fascist dictator that ever murdered democracy for their own selfish ambition. If you think democracy is a failure you need to look at what happens to countries that stop respecting the will of the people.

I'm not really saying democracy is the problem, just that we're doing it wrong. Do you disagree? Was Trump an example of democracy producing good government in your view?

Nope he has been a disaster of epic proportions that has ironically put democrats in a better position then they have been for decades. If democracy survives his presidency it will have been refreshed by the vanquishing of a tyrant.

Hmm... and what of the next tyrant? Wash, rinse, repeat?

There's always opportunistic bastards lying in wait. Perhaps people need to be periodically reminded that when democracy sucks democracy can also be the cure.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

Idiots cannot self-govern.

So, yes. Unfortunately.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hey, why don't you just PM me directly with your infatuation? We can spare the rest of the board that way.

It's your OP, where you whine that the yucky little people have entirely too much say over the governing of the nation, and that you need to find a way to shut them up and keep them in line.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

We're in the twilight of our republic. I'd prefer that states just start seceding. The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

 

[TheParser]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

But what?

Well, Czechoslovakia had a peaceful divorce.
Yugoslavia had a violent divorce.
Maybe Korea is better off being separated.
Taiwan proves that the Chinese CAN appreciate democracy as opposed to the brutal mainland regime.
There are two Sudans, based, I think, on religious preferences.

During the infamous Rodney King riots in the early 1990s, Mr. King famously asked, "Can't we all just get along?"

I think that this year gave us the final answer: NO!

It's nothing to be ashamed of. Who ever said that all groups are compatible?

Let there be at least two nations: One for conservative values, and one nation for liberal values. People can choose the one they like better.

 

[TheParser]

We're in the twilight of our republic. I'd prefer that states just start seceding. The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

Here! Here!

 

[mamooth]

Yes of course. The government should decide who gets funding for campaigns. Why didn't I think of that?!?!?

Because you don't want the problem solved. You want to spout platitudes and tell everyone how awesome you are, while making the problem worse.

 

[mamooth]

But what?

But Hungary, Poland, Turkey and Brazil are supposed democracies that recently moved hard towards fascism.

 

[dblack]

Yes of course. The government should decide who gets funding for campaigns. Why didn't I think of that?!?!?

Because you don't want the problem solved.

Nah. We just disagree on what problem needs to be solved. I don't think the freedom to give our money to whomever we want is a problem.

 

[Imissbush]

I no longer have any faith that democracy can produce good government in the US. Our elections have become, squarely and purely, a game of manipulating idiots. The leaders and administrations we get are those that can most effectively manipulate the legions of mouth-breathers going to the polls. We need something else. But what?

You sound like a sore loser