Gun Background Checks Pass in Washington

[The Rabbi]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

232,000 guns are stolen each year. So much for them being a crime deterent.

Without registering them we will never really know.

If you know how many were stolen then what will registering them do?

Well we would have to have background checks on all guns sales. Then you could track just how all the guns get into criminal hands. If a gun is registered to you and requires a background check you are much less likely to sell it to a criminal without a check because it can come back to you. Now you can sell a gun to whoever and as long as they can't prove you knew he was a felon they can't do anything. If the last owner was a dealer then it would come back to him.

How would requiring background checks work with 2 criminals selling guns to each other?
Since most guns get stolen before being sold to criminals, how would registering them prevent that?

 

[Care4all]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

You dont know what you are talking about.
The biggest source of guns among criminals are those that are stolen from law abiding citizens. Period. Dealers are a small, insignificant source of such guns.
Perhaps we could start by outlawing theft.

maybe it is YOU who doesn't know what they are talking about, or has something to hide which appears obvious by your knee jerk response, eh Rabbi?

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.



In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.



The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.



According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."



The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

continue reading here: frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

 

[Brain357]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

232,000 guns are stolen each year. So much for them being a crime deterent.

Without registering them we will never really know.

If you know how many were stolen then what will registering them do?

Well we would have to have background checks on all guns sales. Then you could track just how all the guns get into criminal hands. If a gun is registered to you and requires a background check you are much less likely to sell it to a criminal without a check because it can come back to you. Now you can sell a gun to whoever and as long as they can't prove you knew he was a felon they can't do anything. If the last owner was a dealer then it would come back to him.

How would requiring background checks work with 2 criminals selling guns to each other?
Since most guns get stolen before being sold to criminals, how would registering them prevent that?

Is that how most of them are getting into the hands of criminals? So gun owners are almost completely responsible for arming criminals? Some gunners have said no. It wouldn't stop every single gun transaction obviously. But it would make it much more difficult for criminals to get guns. It would be much easier for cops to set up sting operations.

 

[The Rabbi]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

You dont know what you are talking about.
The biggest source of guns among criminals are those that are stolen from law abiding citizens. Period. Dealers are a small, insignificant source of such guns.
Perhaps we could start by outlawing theft.

maybe it is YOU who doesn't know what they are talking about, or has something to hide which appears obvious by your knee jerk response, eh Rabbi?

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.



In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.



The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.



According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."



The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

continue reading here: frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

Bullshit.
I have 10 years in the gun business as an FFL. Straw purchases are a tiny number, esp compared to theft. Anyone would tell you the same.

 

[The Rabbi]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

232,000 guns are stolen each year. So much for them being a crime deterent.

Without registering them we will never really know.

If you know how many were stolen then what will registering them do?

Well we would have to have background checks on all guns sales. Then you could track just how all the guns get into criminal hands. If a gun is registered to you and requires a background check you are much less likely to sell it to a criminal without a check because it can come back to you. Now you can sell a gun to whoever and as long as they can't prove you knew he was a felon they can't do anything. If the last owner was a dealer then it would come back to him.

How would requiring background checks work with 2 criminals selling guns to each other?
Since most guns get stolen before being sold to criminals, how would registering them prevent that?

Is that how most of them are getting into the hands of criminals? So gun owners are almost completely responsible for arming criminals? Some gunners have said no. It wouldn't stop every single gun transaction obviously. But it would make it much more difficult for criminals to get guns. It would be much easier for cops to set up sting operations.

How would it make it harder for criminals to get guns? This is a claim you make but cannot show that is possible.

 

[Brain357]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

You dont know what you are talking about.
The biggest source of guns among criminals are those that are stolen from law abiding citizens. Period. Dealers are a small, insignificant source of such guns.
Perhaps we could start by outlawing theft.

maybe it is YOU who doesn't know what they are talking about, or has something to hide which appears obvious by your knee jerk response, eh Rabbi?

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.



In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.



The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.



According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."



The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

continue reading here: frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

Bullshit.
I have 10 years in the gun business as an FFL. Straw purchases are a tiny number, esp compared to theft. Anyone would tell you the same.

You have something to back that up? Everything I have seen agrees with the link. Registering guns and requiring background checks on all sales would stop these things.

 

[The Rabbi]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

You dont know what you are talking about.
The biggest source of guns among criminals are those that are stolen from law abiding citizens. Period. Dealers are a small, insignificant source of such guns.
Perhaps we could start by outlawing theft.

maybe it is YOU who doesn't know what they are talking about, or has something to hide which appears obvious by your knee jerk response, eh Rabbi?

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.



In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.



The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.



According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."



The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

continue reading here: frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

Bullshit.
I have 10 years in the gun business as an FFL. Straw purchases are a tiny number, esp compared to theft. Anyone would tell you the same.

You have something to back that up? Everything I have seen agrees with the link. Registering guns and requiring background checks on all sales would stop these things.

I have 10 years' experience in the retail gun business. How many years' experience do you have?
Again youmake a claim but cannot explain how that happens.
How will registering guns and requiring background checks stop criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them illegally?

 

[Brain357]

just wondering....HOW DO guns get from the manufacturer of guns, in to the hands of millions of criminals? Sure, the Black Market....

BUT HOW DO they get in to the black market??? Are Gun Dealers unintentionally supplying the Black Market? Who is the main supplier? Sure individual guns are stolen from law abiding citizens, but that's small change compared to what is available in the Black Market?

Shouldn't this be what we focus on, in order to stop Criminals from their easy access?

You dont know what you are talking about.
The biggest source of guns among criminals are those that are stolen from law abiding citizens. Period. Dealers are a small, insignificant source of such guns.
Perhaps we could start by outlawing theft.

maybe it is YOU who doesn't know what they are talking about, or has something to hide which appears obvious by your knee jerk response, eh Rabbi?

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.



In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.



The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.



According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."



The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

continue reading here: frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

Bullshit.
I have 10 years in the gun business as an FFL. Straw purchases are a tiny number, esp compared to theft. Anyone would tell you the same.

You have something to back that up? Everything I have seen agrees with the link. Registering guns and requiring background checks on all sales would stop these things.

I have 10 years' experience in the retail gun business. How many years' experience do you have?
Again youmake a claim but cannot explain how that happens.
How will registering guns and requiring background checks stop criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them illegally?

I can't pretend to care about your experience. Do you have a link? I tend to believe the ATF over you.
Fact Sheet Illegal gun trafficking arms criminals youth Gun Victims Action Council
Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

 

[The Rabbi]

You dont know what you are talking about.
The biggest source of guns among criminals are those that are stolen from law abiding citizens. Period. Dealers are a small, insignificant source of such guns.
Perhaps we could start by outlawing theft.

maybe it is YOU who doesn't know what they are talking about, or has something to hide which appears obvious by your knee jerk response, eh Rabbi?

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.



In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.



The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.



According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."



The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

continue reading here: frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

Bullshit.
I have 10 years in the gun business as an FFL. Straw purchases are a tiny number, esp compared to theft. Anyone would tell you the same.

You have something to back that up? Everything I have seen agrees with the link. Registering guns and requiring background checks on all sales would stop these things.

I have 10 years' experience in the retail gun business. How many years' experience do you have?
Again youmake a claim but cannot explain how that happens.
How will registering guns and requiring background checks stop criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them illegally?

I can't pretend to care about your experience. Do you have a link? I tend to believe the ATF over you.
Fact Sheet Illegal gun trafficking arms criminals youth Gun Victims Action Council
Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

You understand a dealer caught selling guns to criminals is going to jail, right? And the ATF does periodic inspections of dealer, including careful inventory. And the margin on such sales is stil pretty low.
So I'd say your source sucks, your knowledge base is off, and you don't have a clue.

Now, how will registration and background checks prevent criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them?

 

[Brain357]

maybe it is YOU who doesn't know what they are talking about, or has something to hide which appears obvious by your knee jerk response, eh Rabbi?

continue reading here: frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

Bullshit.
I have 10 years in the gun business as an FFL. Straw purchases are a tiny number, esp compared to theft. Anyone would tell you the same.

You have something to back that up? Everything I have seen agrees with the link. Registering guns and requiring background checks on all sales would stop these things.

I have 10 years' experience in the retail gun business. How many years' experience do you have?
Again youmake a claim but cannot explain how that happens.
How will registering guns and requiring background checks stop criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them illegally?

I can't pretend to care about your experience. Do you have a link? I tend to believe the ATF over you.
Fact Sheet Illegal gun trafficking arms criminals youth Gun Victims Action Council
Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

You understand a dealer caught selling guns to criminals is going to jail, right? And the ATF does periodic inspections of dealer, including careful inventory. And the margin on such sales is stil pretty low.
So I'd say your source sucks, your knowledge base is off, and you don't have a clue.

Now, how will registration and background checks prevent criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them?

You have no source so I win. Thanks for playing.

If you talk to gun people then guns prevent crime right? So I guess if they had to rely on stealing guns from gun owners as their only source it should be much more difficult for them right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Bullshit.
I have 10 years in the gun business as an FFL. Straw purchases are a tiny number, esp compared to theft. Anyone would tell you the same.

You have something to back that up? Everything I have seen agrees with the link. Registering guns and requiring background checks on all sales would stop these things.

I have 10 years' experience in the retail gun business. How many years' experience do you have?
Again youmake a claim but cannot explain how that happens.
How will registering guns and requiring background checks stop criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them illegally?

I can't pretend to care about your experience. Do you have a link? I tend to believe the ATF over you.
Fact Sheet Illegal gun trafficking arms criminals youth Gun Victims Action Council
Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

You understand a dealer caught selling guns to criminals is going to jail, right? And the ATF does periodic inspections of dealer, including careful inventory. And the margin on such sales is stil pretty low.
So I'd say your source sucks, your knowledge base is off, and you don't have a clue.

Now, how will registration and background checks prevent criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them?

You have no source so I win. Thanks for playing.

If you talk to gun people then guns prevent crime right? So I guess if they had to rely on stealing guns from gun owners as their only source it should be much more difficult for them right?

I have actual experience, unlike you.
There are thousands of guns in circulation. Millions, actually. Actually like 300 million. Virtually all of them are unregistered and unaccounted for. And guns get stolen every single day.
So tell me how registeration and background checks will prevent criminals getting them.
This is like the 5th time I've posted this question and you can't answer it.

 

[theHawk]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

They have the same laws in California and they don't seem to have had the slightest effect on preventing criminal behavior. Probably because criminals are...well criminals.

So you think background checks on criminals is worthless because criminals will get them illegally anyway? Do you also think we shouldn't have speed limites because speeders will speed anyway. Do you also think we shouldn't have laws on murder because people might kill anyway?

You are a Nihilist

Criminals don't get their guns through normal channels is the point. As I said California has had those laws in place for well over a decade and the violent crime rate continues to increase. The one thing that DID drop crime rates was incarcerating a ton of gangbangers. That worked. These laws don't do anything but inconvenience the law abiding.

Exactly.

Progressives favor locking up the guns, instead of the criminals that commit violent crimes.

 

[Brain357]

You have something to back that up? Everything I have seen agrees with the link. Registering guns and requiring background checks on all sales would stop these things.

I have 10 years' experience in the retail gun business. How many years' experience do you have?
Again youmake a claim but cannot explain how that happens.
How will registering guns and requiring background checks stop criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them illegally?

I can't pretend to care about your experience. Do you have a link? I tend to believe the ATF over you.
Fact Sheet Illegal gun trafficking arms criminals youth Gun Victims Action Council
Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

You understand a dealer caught selling guns to criminals is going to jail, right? And the ATF does periodic inspections of dealer, including careful inventory. And the margin on such sales is stil pretty low.
So I'd say your source sucks, your knowledge base is off, and you don't have a clue.

Now, how will registration and background checks prevent criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them?

You have no source so I win. Thanks for playing.

If you talk to gun people then guns prevent crime right? So I guess if they had to rely on stealing guns from gun owners as their only source it should be much more difficult for them right?

I have actual experience, unlike you.
There are thousands of guns in circulation. Millions, actually. Actually like 300 million. Virtually all of them are unregistered and unaccounted for. And guns get stolen every single day.
So tell me how registeration and background checks will prevent criminals getting them.
This is like the 5th time I've posted this question and you can't answer it.

Sorry but your opinion is pretty much worthless. Clearly you can't back it up with anything. The ATF knows more than you. I have answered the question several times, you better go back and read. Registering guns would end many of the sources of guns for criminals. There would be very few straw purchases if guns are registered and all sales require background checks. That should be obvious.

 

[Dana7360]

.

You're in the minority on this issue.

Homosexuals = The rights of the minority cannot be dictated by the majority.
Gun owners = Why of course the rights of the minority can, and must, be decided by the majority.

You haven't lost any rights.

In fact no one loses any right to have a gun with this law. Those who will be prevented from getting guns lost their right to have one long before this law. When they committed a felony, or if they have mental problems or if they're a domestic abuser they lose their right to have a gun when they committed the original crime or when they were found to have mental problems.

Our society decided a long time ago that those people shouldn't have guns. All this law does is make sure that they don't get them. The honor system we've been using thus far has not worked and has gotten thousands of people killed.

 

[Dana7360]

Sucks to be conservative in Washington doesn't it? You will ALWAYS be in the minority in our state.

You've got 2 choices. Deal with it or leave.

Sucks to be a black in Washington. Sucks to be a homosexual in Washington. Don't like all of the anti-black and anti-homosexual laws that Washington has passed, well you've got 2 choices, deal with them or leave.

Or overturn them as being unconstitutional.

Please name the anti black and anti homosexual laws in Washington.

Seattle became one of the first cities in America to give live in partners the same benefits as married couples. That happened in the 1970s. In 2012 Washington made gay marriage legal.

So you're going to have to provide some credible proof of your claims or you're full of garbage.

 

[turtledude]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

delusions. crooks won't go through background checks anymore than addicts buy their drugs from pharmacies

when it fails, you will demand more gun laws

 

[turtledude]

.

You're in the minority on this issue.

Homosexuals = The rights of the minority cannot be dictated by the majority.
Gun owners = Why of course the rights of the minority can, and must, be decided by the majority.

You haven't lost any rights.

In fact no one loses any right to have a gun with this law. Those who will be prevented from getting guns lost their right to have one long before this law. When they committed a felony, or if they have mental problems or if they're a domestic abuser they lose their right to have a gun when they committed the original crime or when they were found to have mental problems.

Our society decided a long time ago that those people shouldn't have guns. All this law does is make sure that they don't get them. The honor system we've been using thus far has not worked and has gotten thousands of people killed.

another DELUSIONAL twit I see. 21 Years of the brady bill and guess what

NO EVIDENCE it has decreased crime at all

and without complete REGISTRATION you cannot prove when someone sold that gun to his neighbor

 

[Dana7360]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

delusions. crooks won't go through background checks anymore than addicts buy their drugs from pharmacies

when it fails, you will demand more gun laws

The reason why they don't go through background checks is because there's a loophole in the federal law big enough to drive a Mack truck through. All this law does is close those loopholes.

If they have to go through a background check no matter who they buy from, they're they're much less likely to get a gun.

If you say that this law won't do anything then why are you so upset that the law passed? If it's a worthless law you shouldn't have any problem with it.

 

[Saigon]

There are thousands of guns in circulation. Millions, actually. Actually like 300 million. Virtually all of them are unregistered and unaccounted for. And guns get stolen every single day.

It's very strange to me that you consider this a situation worth preserving.

 

[The Rabbi]

I have 10 years' experience in the retail gun business. How many years' experience do you have?
Again youmake a claim but cannot explain how that happens.
How will registering guns and requiring background checks stop criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them illegally?

I can't pretend to care about your experience. Do you have a link? I tend to believe the ATF over you.
Fact Sheet Illegal gun trafficking arms criminals youth Gun Victims Action Council
Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

You understand a dealer caught selling guns to criminals is going to jail, right? And the ATF does periodic inspections of dealer, including careful inventory. And the margin on such sales is stil pretty low.
So I'd say your source sucks, your knowledge base is off, and you don't have a clue.

Now, how will registration and background checks prevent criminals from stealing those same guns and reselling them?

You have no source so I win. Thanks for playing.

If you talk to gun people then guns prevent crime right? So I guess if they had to rely on stealing guns from gun owners as their only source it should be much more difficult for them right?

I have actual experience, unlike you.
There are thousands of guns in circulation. Millions, actually. Actually like 300 million. Virtually all of them are unregistered and unaccounted for. And guns get stolen every single day.
So tell me how registeration and background checks will prevent criminals getting them.
This is like the 5th time I've posted this question and you can't answer it.

Sorry but your opinion is pretty much worthless. Clearly you can't back it up with anything. The ATF knows more than you. I have answered the question several times, you better go back and read. Registering guns would end many of the sources of guns for criminals. There would be very few straw purchases if guns are registered and all sales require background checks. That should be obvious.

My opinion is worthless to you because it contradicts your perception. The article was bogus. Guns taken from a dealer's inventory without proper procedure are also stolen, nitwit.
Again, if guns are registered how will that stop straw purchases? Do you even know what a straw purchase is?