God Is The Original Mathematician

[JAG]

Taz
harmonica
The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.
So that all men are, in that sense responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle. We ALL have participated in
the Sin Principle and we ALL share in the guilt of
that participation.

You have 2 choices:
{1} You can accept by faith what the Bible says
about the human condition and you can live
accordingly , , ,
, , , OR , , ,
{2} you can refuse to do that and perish.

The Sovereign God has made a way out of this mess
for all of us, but you have to say NO to your own wisdom
and what you all "Logic" and you have to turn to the
Lord by Faith and ask for His forgiveness and
His restoration.

Here is Step one:
Pray this simple prayer from your heart , , ,

God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have
created me. In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love.
I repent of each and every one of my sins. Please forgive me.
Thank You for sending Your Son to die for me, to save me from
eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew my)
covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart.
I surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to
flood my soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may
be transformed. Give me the grace and courage to live as a
disciple in Your Church for the rest of my days. In Jesus name
I pray Amen."
___from Saint Paul Street Evangelization

Best.

JAG

``

I personally had nothing to do with Adam's fall, or whatever fall happened in the bible. I wasn't born yet.

"I personally had nothing to do with Adam's fall, or
whatever fall happened in the bible. I wasn't born yet."
__Taz

Incorrect.

It does not matter that your were not "born yet."

The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.

So that all men are, in that sense, responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle.

We ALL have participated in The Sin Principle and
we ALL share in the guilt of that participation
because we all have used our Free Will to
deliberately sin and thereby we participate
in the Sin Principle and share In Adam's Original
Sin.

You will be held accountable for your personable
participation in it -- regardless of what you say to
God at The Judgment. You will NOT be able to tell
God at The Judgment that you did not sin -- and
you KNOW it. You will be held accountable for your
personal sins at the Judgment.

But God loved you and He made a way out for you
and for all of us.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one
and only Son that whoever believes on Him shall
not perish but have Eternal Life."

Revelation 3:20
"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone
hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in
and eat with that person, and they with me. "
___The Lord Jesus

All you have to do is ask for forgiveness and pray,
from the heart, a simple prayer such as , , , ,

"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for
Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and
rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite
You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust
and follow You as my Lord and Savior."

"everyone who calls on the name of the LORD
will be saved"___Acts 2:21

Best.

JAG

``

Nope, that's wrong, man had fallen thousands of years before I was born. So it's impossible that I had anything to do with it.

"Nope, that's wrong, man had fallen thousands of years
before I was born. So it's impossible that I had anything
to do with it."___Taz

It does not matter when you were born.

The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.

So that all men are, in that sense, responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle.

We ALL have participated in The Sin Principle and
we ALL share in the guilt of that participation
because we all have used our Free Will to
deliberately sin and thereby we participate
in the Sin Principle and share In Adam's Original
Sin.

You will be held accountable for your personable
participation in it -- regardless of what you say to
God at The Judgment. You will NOT be able to tell
God at The Judgment that you did not sin -- and
you KNOW it. You will be held accountable for your
personal sins at the Judgment.

JAG

 

[Taz]

Just curious.
How do you KNOW for a FACT that John 3:16 is not true?

How do you KNOW for a FACT that God is not somewhere in
Andromeda?

Because you have zero proof of your claim.

 

[Taz]

Taz
harmonica
The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.
So that all men are, in that sense responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle. We ALL have participated in
the Sin Principle and we ALL share in the guilt of
that participation.

You have 2 choices:
{1} You can accept by faith what the Bible says
about the human condition and you can live
accordingly , , ,
, , , OR , , ,
{2} you can refuse to do that and perish.

The Sovereign God has made a way out of this mess
for all of us, but you have to say NO to your own wisdom
and what you all "Logic" and you have to turn to the
Lord by Faith and ask for His forgiveness and
His restoration.

Here is Step one:
Pray this simple prayer from your heart , , ,

God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have
created me. In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love.
I repent of each and every one of my sins. Please forgive me.
Thank You for sending Your Son to die for me, to save me from
eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew my)
covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart.
I surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to
flood my soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may
be transformed. Give me the grace and courage to live as a
disciple in Your Church for the rest of my days. In Jesus name
I pray Amen."
___from Saint Paul Street Evangelization

Best.

JAG

``

I personally had nothing to do with Adam's fall, or whatever fall happened in the bible. I wasn't born yet.

"I personally had nothing to do with Adam's fall, or
whatever fall happened in the bible. I wasn't born yet."
__Taz

Incorrect.

It does not matter that your were not "born yet."

The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.

So that all men are, in that sense, responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle.

We ALL have participated in The Sin Principle and
we ALL share in the guilt of that participation
because we all have used our Free Will to
deliberately sin and thereby we participate
in the Sin Principle and share In Adam's Original
Sin.

You will be held accountable for your personable
participation in it -- regardless of what you say to
God at The Judgment. You will NOT be able to tell
God at The Judgment that you did not sin -- and
you KNOW it. You will be held accountable for your
personal sins at the Judgment.

But God loved you and He made a way out for you
and for all of us.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one
and only Son that whoever believes on Him shall
not perish but have Eternal Life."

Revelation 3:20
"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone
hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in
and eat with that person, and they with me. "
___The Lord Jesus

All you have to do is ask for forgiveness and pray,
from the heart, a simple prayer such as , , , ,

"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for
Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and
rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite
You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust
and follow You as my Lord and Savior."

"everyone who calls on the name of the LORD
will be saved"___Acts 2:21

Best.

JAG

``

Nope, that's wrong, man had fallen thousands of years before I was born. So it's impossible that I had anything to do with it.

"Nope, that's wrong, man had fallen thousands of years
before I was born. So it's impossible that I had anything
to do with it."___Taz

It does not matter when you were born.

The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.

So that all men are, in that sense, responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle.

We ALL have participated in The Sin Principle and
we ALL share in the guilt of that participation
because we all have used our Free Will to
deliberately sin and thereby we participate
in the Sin Principle and share In Adam's Original
Sin.

You will be held accountable for your personable
participation in it -- regardless of what you say to
God at The Judgment. You will NOT be able to tell
God at The Judgment that you did not sin -- and
you KNOW it. You will be held accountable for your
personal sins at the Judgment.

JAG

Then you have proof that the bible is wrong because simple logic tells us that if I was born thousands of years after an even, then I had nothing to do with it.
Just like the slavery/reparations argument. I had nothing to do with slavery so am not going to pay a dime towards reparations, plus none of these people were even slaves.

 

[rylah]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.

He doesn't. You should go and ask your question to rylah . rylah believes that God gave man an evil inclination.

When G-d mentioned it, He wasn't talking about selfless angelic beings like you pertain to be,
but about us normal folks in flesh, here on earth...

 

[ding]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.

He doesn't. You should go and ask your question to rylah . rylah believes that God gave man an evil inclination.

When G-d mentioned it, He wasn't talking about selfless angelic beings like you pertain to be,
but about us normal folks in flesh, here on earth...

I have never made a claim about being a selfless angelic being. I'm no saint. I would put assholes like you down in a heart beat and not lose a minute of sleep after doing so.

 

[norwegen]

"The world changed, then. Literally. A world in which fanged creatures eat
grass and all creatures roam the earth forever is in no way a world in which
fanged creatures eat other creatures and flesh decays. Deny it all you want,
but a belief that man and his environment were recreated is a belief that
the Bible does not teach and that really does nothing more than caricature it.

Biological death is not a death that concerned the ancient Israelites. The
arrest of all biological functions is not an idea upon which they built their
faith or their narrative.

If it is - if that is what Jesus came to restore, or redeem - then he failed."
____Norwegen

I have no idea what you're are trying to establish as true.
You seem to strongly overwork the word "recreated"
and from all I can tell you are building your view on
and around the word "recreated" -- the Bible does
not say the world was "recreated" and I have no idea
what you are trying to establish as true.

The Bible is crystal clear that , , ,
{1} God made man and the earth sin free.
{2} There was no sin before The Fall
{3} Adam and Eve chose to sin.
{4} The results of their sin was pain, disease, and death
{4} God and His Christ, will at some future point, "restore Eden"
and man and the Earth will again be sin free and all pain,
suffering, disease, and death will be eliminated.

JAG

``

Exactly. The Bible does not say that the world was recreated. It does not say that man was created to be immortal, and then created again to be mortal. Flesh did not undergo such drastic physiological alterations.

In fact, the Israelites taught the opposite, that flesh comes from dust and returns to dust. Their desire was never to live forever with nature, but to live forever with God. Death in their minds was condemnation; belief led to life.

“It is the Spirit who gives life,” Jesus said. “The flesh is no help at all.” (Jn 6:63)

When Ephraim (Israel, or the ten Northern tribes) worshipped Baal, he died. Death came to Israel through idolatry. This dead people did not repent but instead sinned more and more (Hos 13:1-2), which they did as living, breathing organisms. When Ephraim died, he did not die in the flesh.

Likewise with the Pharisees, who, like whitewashed tombs, knowing not the Father, were the walking dead, full of dead men’s bones (Mt 23:27). Strangers to God, they were dead.

The day Adam ate the serpent's fruit and died, he did not keel over and orphan his children. He was exiled from God's presence.

You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was recreated; it does not say that man was created again to be something different. So, why you would insist that man is a different creature now than he was in the Garden is a mystery.

 

[rylah]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.

He doesn't. You should go and ask your question to rylah . rylah believes that God gave man an evil inclination.

When G-d mentioned it, He wasn't talking about selfless angelic beings like you pertain to be,
but about us normal folks in flesh, here on earth...

I have never made a claim about being a selfless angelic being. I'm no saint. I would put assholes like you down in a heart beat and not lose a minute of sleep after doing so.

Are you as upset about being reminded of not being a saint as to resort to insults?

 

[ding]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.

He doesn't. You should go and ask your question to rylah . rylah believes that God gave man an evil inclination.

When G-d mentioned it, He wasn't talking about selfless angelic beings like you pertain to be,
but about us normal folks in flesh, here on earth...

I have never made a claim about being a selfless angelic being. I'm no saint. I would put assholes like you down in a heart beat and not lose a minute of sleep after doing so.

Are you as upset about being reminded of not being a saint as to resort to insults?

How could I? I never claimed to be a saint, dummy.

Besides it wasn't an insult. You are act like an asshole.

 

[harmonica]

Taz
harmonica
The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.
So that all men are, in that sense responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle. We ALL have participated in
the Sin Principle and we ALL share in the guilt of
that participation.

You have 2 choices:
{1} You can accept by faith what the Bible says
about the human condition and you can live
accordingly , , ,
, , , OR , , ,
{2} you can refuse to do that and perish.

The Sovereign God has made a way out of this mess
for all of us, but you have to say NO to your own wisdom
and what you all "Logic" and you have to turn to the
Lord by Faith and ask for His forgiveness and
His restoration.

Here is Step one:
Pray this simple prayer from your heart , , ,

God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have
created me. In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love.
I repent of each and every one of my sins. Please forgive me.
Thank You for sending Your Son to die for me, to save me from
eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew my)
covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart.
I surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to
flood my soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may
be transformed. Give me the grace and courage to live as a
disciple in Your Church for the rest of my days. In Jesus name
I pray Amen."
___from Saint Paul Street Evangelization

Best.

JAG

``

....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish or to hell/etc

"....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish
or to hell/etc"___Harmonica

Just curious.
How do you KNOW for a FACT that John 3:16 is not true?

How do you KNOW for a FACT that God is not somewhere in
Andromeda?

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not exist.

Your statements are Faith-based statements. You are a Man Of Faith
because you state as being true that which you cannot possibly
demonstrate as being true with evidence. Your statement "I am
not going to perish" is a Faith based statement.

So?

So since you are already exercising faith-- you can make the
transition over to exercising Faith in the Lord Jesus as your
Savior. Give this serious thought.

JAG

``

1.you can't prove it's true, --now.......it's like saying I will die by a Dragon killing me with fire......
2. the bible:
a. written 1000s of years ago --there's controversy over the JFK shooting in 1963--with video!
b. can be interpreted many ways
c. are fairy tales
3.

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not

WOOOOOHOHOHOOOO...
a. wrong
b. plain and simple--no one can prove there is a god AND it's not up to me/us to disprove
c. sure, you can make up ANY attributes you want--but that is like it is--made up--fake

 

[ding]

Taz
harmonica
The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.
So that all men are, in that sense responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle. We ALL have participated in
the Sin Principle and we ALL share in the guilt of
that participation.

You have 2 choices:
{1} You can accept by faith what the Bible says
about the human condition and you can live
accordingly , , ,
, , , OR , , ,
{2} you can refuse to do that and perish.

The Sovereign God has made a way out of this mess
for all of us, but you have to say NO to your own wisdom
and what you all "Logic" and you have to turn to the
Lord by Faith and ask for His forgiveness and
His restoration.

Here is Step one:
Pray this simple prayer from your heart , , ,

God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have
created me. In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love.
I repent of each and every one of my sins. Please forgive me.
Thank You for sending Your Son to die for me, to save me from
eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew my)
covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart.
I surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to
flood my soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may
be transformed. Give me the grace and courage to live as a
disciple in Your Church for the rest of my days. In Jesus name
I pray Amen."
___from Saint Paul Street Evangelization

Best.

JAG

``

....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish or to hell/etc

"....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish
or to hell/etc"___Harmonica

Just curious.
How do you KNOW for a FACT that John 3:16 is not true?

How do you KNOW for a FACT that God is not somewhere in
Andromeda?

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not exist.

Your statements are Faith-based statements. You are a Man Of Faith
because you state as being true that which you cannot possibly
demonstrate as being true with evidence. Your statement "I am
not going to perish" is a Faith based statement.

So?

So since you are already exercising faith-- you can make the
transition over to exercising Faith in the Lord Jesus as your
Savior. Give this serious thought.

JAG

``

1.you can't prove it's true, --now.......it's like saying I will die by a Dragon killing me with fire......
2. the bible:
a. written 1000s of years ago --there's controversy over the JFK shooting in 1963--with video!
b. can be interpreted many ways
c. are fairy tales
3.

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not

WOOOOOHOHOHOOOO...
a. wrong
b. plain and simple--no one can prove there is a god AND it's not up to me/us to disprove
c. sure, you can make up ANY attributes you want--but that is like it is--made up--fake

It’s not our job to convince you, dummy.

 

[Taz]

Taz
harmonica
The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.
So that all men are, in that sense responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle. We ALL have participated in
the Sin Principle and we ALL share in the guilt of
that participation.

You have 2 choices:
{1} You can accept by faith what the Bible says
about the human condition and you can live
accordingly , , ,
, , , OR , , ,
{2} you can refuse to do that and perish.

The Sovereign God has made a way out of this mess
for all of us, but you have to say NO to your own wisdom
and what you all "Logic" and you have to turn to the
Lord by Faith and ask for His forgiveness and
His restoration.

Here is Step one:
Pray this simple prayer from your heart , , ,

God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have
created me. In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love.
I repent of each and every one of my sins. Please forgive me.
Thank You for sending Your Son to die for me, to save me from
eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew my)
covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart.
I surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to
flood my soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may
be transformed. Give me the grace and courage to live as a
disciple in Your Church for the rest of my days. In Jesus name
I pray Amen."
___from Saint Paul Street Evangelization

Best.

JAG

``

....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish or to hell/etc

"....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish
or to hell/etc"___Harmonica

Just curious.
How do you KNOW for a FACT that John 3:16 is not true?

How do you KNOW for a FACT that God is not somewhere in
Andromeda?

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not exist.

Your statements are Faith-based statements. You are a Man Of Faith
because you state as being true that which you cannot possibly
demonstrate as being true with evidence. Your statement "I am
not going to perish" is a Faith based statement.

So?

So since you are already exercising faith-- you can make the
transition over to exercising Faith in the Lord Jesus as your
Savior. Give this serious thought.

JAG

``

1.you can't prove it's true, --now.......it's like saying I will die by a Dragon killing me with fire......
2. the bible:
a. written 1000s of years ago --there's controversy over the JFK shooting in 1963--with video!
b. can be interpreted many ways
c. are fairy tales
3.

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not

WOOOOOHOHOHOOOO...
a. wrong
b. plain and simple--no one can prove there is a god AND it's not up to me/us to disprove
c. sure, you can make up ANY attributes you want--but that is like it is--made up--fake

It’s not our job to convince you, dummy.

No matter how hard you try.

 

[ding]

Taz
harmonica
The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.
So that all men are, in that sense responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle. We ALL have participated in
the Sin Principle and we ALL share in the guilt of
that participation.

You have 2 choices:
{1} You can accept by faith what the Bible says
about the human condition and you can live
accordingly , , ,
, , , OR , , ,
{2} you can refuse to do that and perish.

The Sovereign God has made a way out of this mess
for all of us, but you have to say NO to your own wisdom
and what you all "Logic" and you have to turn to the
Lord by Faith and ask for His forgiveness and
His restoration.

Here is Step one:
Pray this simple prayer from your heart , , ,

God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have
created me. In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love.
I repent of each and every one of my sins. Please forgive me.
Thank You for sending Your Son to die for me, to save me from
eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew my)
covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart.
I surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to
flood my soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may
be transformed. Give me the grace and courage to live as a
disciple in Your Church for the rest of my days. In Jesus name
I pray Amen."
___from Saint Paul Street Evangelization

Best.

JAG

``

....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish or to hell/etc

"....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish
or to hell/etc"___Harmonica

Just curious.
How do you KNOW for a FACT that John 3:16 is not true?

How do you KNOW for a FACT that God is not somewhere in
Andromeda?

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not exist.

Your statements are Faith-based statements. You are a Man Of Faith
because you state as being true that which you cannot possibly
demonstrate as being true with evidence. Your statement "I am
not going to perish" is a Faith based statement.

So?

So since you are already exercising faith-- you can make the
transition over to exercising Faith in the Lord Jesus as your
Savior. Give this serious thought.

JAG

``

1.you can't prove it's true, --now.......it's like saying I will die by a Dragon killing me with fire......
2. the bible:
a. written 1000s of years ago --there's controversy over the JFK shooting in 1963--with video!
b. can be interpreted many ways
c. are fairy tales
3.

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not

WOOOOOHOHOHOOOO...
a. wrong
b. plain and simple--no one can prove there is a god AND it's not up to me/us to disprove
c. sure, you can make up ANY attributes you want--but that is like it is--made up--fake

It’s not our job to convince you, dummy.

No matter how hard you try.

No. No matter how hard you try, dummy.

 

[justinacolmena]

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

Because the women are hanging around the abortion clinic and the men are hanging around the barbershop.

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open

The door isn't open to unbelievers, butt fuckers and rapists …

 

[Taz]

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

Because the women are hanging around the abortion clinic and the men are hanging around the barbershop.

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open

The door isn't open to unbelievers, butt fuckers and rapists …

So not open to infidels and priests?

 

[justinacolmena]

So not open to infidels and priests?

I never said that priests of any particular denomination were faithful or believers.

 

[JAG]

"The world changed, then. Literally. A world in which fanged creatures eat
grass and all creatures roam the earth forever is in no way a world in which
fanged creatures eat other creatures and flesh decays. Deny it all you want,
but a belief that man and his environment were recreated is a belief that
the Bible does not teach and that really does nothing more than caricature it.

Biological death is not a death that concerned the ancient Israelites. The
arrest of all biological functions is not an idea upon which they built their
faith or their narrative.

If it is - if that is what Jesus came to restore, or redeem - then he failed."
____Norwegen

I have no idea what you're are trying to establish as true.
You seem to strongly overwork the word "recreated"
and from all I can tell you are building your view on
and around the word "recreated" -- the Bible does
not say the world was "recreated" and I have no idea
what you are trying to establish as true.

The Bible is crystal clear that , , ,
{1} God made man and the earth sin free.
{2} There was no sin before The Fall
{3} Adam and Eve chose to sin.
{4} The results of their sin was pain, disease, and death
{4} God and His Christ, will at some future point, "restore Eden"
and man and the Earth will again be sin free and all pain,
suffering, disease, and death will be eliminated.

JAG

``

Exactly. The Bible does not say that the world was recreated. It does not say that man was created to be immortal, and then created again to be mortal. Flesh did not undergo such drastic physiological alterations.

In fact, the Israelites taught the opposite, that flesh comes from dust and returns to dust. Their desire was never to live forever with nature, but to live forever with God. Death in their minds was condemnation; belief led to life.

“It is the Spirit who gives life,” Jesus said. “The flesh is no help at all.” (Jn 6:63)

When Ephraim (Israel, or the ten Northern tribes) worshipped Baal, he died. Death came to Israel through idolatry. This dead people did not repent but instead sinned more and more (Hos 13:1-2), which they did as living, breathing organisms. When Ephraim died, he did not die in the flesh.

Likewise with the Pharisees, who, like whitewashed tombs, knowing not the Father, were the walking dead, full of dead men’s bones (Mt 23:27). Strangers to God, they were dead.

The day Adam ate the serpent's fruit and died, he did not keel over and orphan his children. He was exiled from God's presence.

You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was recreated; it does not say that man was created again to be something different. So, why you would insist that man is a different creature now than he was in the Garden is a mystery.

"You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was
recreated; it does not say that man was created again
to be something different. So, why you would insist
that man is a different creature now than he
was in the Garden is a mystery"___Norwegen

My friend I have zero clues where you are going with this
or what you are trying to accomplish here with this line of
thought. Your words "recreated" and your phrase "different
creature" has got some idea lurking behind them and I
have no idea what the idea is that's lurking behind them.

It is impossible to read Genesis chapters 1, 2, and 3 and
not conclude that Adam and Eve were "different creatures"
after The Fall that introduced the Sin Principle and all its
consequences and ramifications for example Death.

There would have been no Death had there not been
The Fall into sin. THAT alone is enough to establish
both Adam & Eve as being "different creatures."

All you have to do is merely surface read Genesis
chapters 1, 2, and 3 to see clear solid Biblical evidence
that The Sin Principle changed Adam & Eve into
"different creatures."

What do you want to accomplish here?

Best Regards.

JAG

``

 

[JAG]

Taz
harmonica
The Bible teaches that all men share in the guilt
of Original Sin and that they had their part in it,
and personally participated in it. How did they
participate in it? Answer: By choosing to sin.
So that all men are, in that sense responsible for
deformed babies and cancer in children and
human diseases and all the other bad consequences
of the Sin Principle. We ALL have participated in
the Sin Principle and we ALL share in the guilt of
that participation.

You have 2 choices:
{1} You can accept by faith what the Bible says
about the human condition and you can live
accordingly , , ,
, , , OR , , ,
{2} you can refuse to do that and perish.

The Sovereign God has made a way out of this mess
for all of us, but you have to say NO to your own wisdom
and what you all "Logic" and you have to turn to the
Lord by Faith and ask for His forgiveness and
His restoration.

Here is Step one:
Pray this simple prayer from your heart , , ,

God our Father, I believe that out of Your infinite love You have
created me. In a thousand ways I have shunned Your love.
I repent of each and every one of my sins. Please forgive me.
Thank You for sending Your Son to die for me, to save me from
eternal death. I choose this day to enter into (renew my)
covenant with You and to place Jesus at the center of my heart.
I surrender to Him as Lord over my whole life. I ask You now to
flood my soul with the gift of the Holy Spirit so that my life may
be transformed. Give me the grace and courage to live as a
disciple in Your Church for the rest of my days. In Jesus name
I pray Amen."
___from Saint Paul Street Evangelization

Best.

JAG

``

....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish or to hell/etc

"....just what I'm talking about--I'm not going to perish
or to hell/etc"___Harmonica

Just curious.
How do you KNOW for a FACT that John 3:16 is not true?

How do you KNOW for a FACT that God is not somewhere in
Andromeda?

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not exist.

Your statements are Faith-based statements. You are a Man Of Faith
because you state as being true that which you cannot possibly
demonstrate as being true with evidence. Your statement "I am
not going to perish" is a Faith based statement.

So?

So since you are already exercising faith-- you can make the
transition over to exercising Faith in the Lord Jesus as your
Savior. Give this serious thought.

JAG

``

1.you can't prove it's true, --now.......it's like saying I will die by a Dragon killing me with fire......
2. the bible:
a. written 1000s of years ago --there's controversy over the JFK shooting in 1963--with video!
b. can be interpreted many ways
c. are fairy tales
3.

You would have to have the attributes of God Himself, in order
to KNOW that God does not

WOOOOOHOHOHOOOO...
a. wrong
b. plain and simple--no one can prove there is a god AND it's not up to me/us to disprove
c. sure, you can make up ANY attributes you want--but that is like it is--made up--fake

'"You can't prove its true"__Harmonica

That is correct,
I do not have to prove it is true.
Christianity is a Faith.
"without faith it is impossible to please God" Hebrews 11:6

The gospel is the power of God to save repenting sinners
and so we proclaim the gospel and leave the convincing
work to the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit. He is
the One that will convince you of the truth of Christianity ---
if you ever actually do become convinced. All I can do is
present the gospel to you and implore you to give it serious
thought.

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears
my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with
that person, and they with me."___The Lord Jesus
Revelatio0n 3:20

Untold millions of human beings have prayed this simple prayer
and it forever rocked their world for the better , , ,

"Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your
forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from the
dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my
heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and
Savior."

Best.

JAG

``

 

[norwegen]

"The world changed, then. Literally. A world in which fanged creatures eat
grass and all creatures roam the earth forever is in no way a world in which
fanged creatures eat other creatures and flesh decays. Deny it all you want,
but a belief that man and his environment were recreated is a belief that
the Bible does not teach and that really does nothing more than caricature it.

Biological death is not a death that concerned the ancient Israelites. The
arrest of all biological functions is not an idea upon which they built their
faith or their narrative.

If it is - if that is what Jesus came to restore, or redeem - then he failed."
____Norwegen

I have no idea what you're are trying to establish as true.
You seem to strongly overwork the word "recreated"
and from all I can tell you are building your view on
and around the word "recreated" -- the Bible does
not say the world was "recreated" and I have no idea
what you are trying to establish as true.

The Bible is crystal clear that , , ,
{1} God made man and the earth sin free.
{2} There was no sin before The Fall
{3} Adam and Eve chose to sin.
{4} The results of their sin was pain, disease, and death
{4} God and His Christ, will at some future point, "restore Eden"
and man and the Earth will again be sin free and all pain,
suffering, disease, and death will be eliminated.

JAG

``

Exactly. The Bible does not say that the world was recreated. It does not say that man was created to be immortal, and then created again to be mortal. Flesh did not undergo such drastic physiological alterations.

In fact, the Israelites taught the opposite, that flesh comes from dust and returns to dust. Their desire was never to live forever with nature, but to live forever with God. Death in their minds was condemnation; belief led to life.

“It is the Spirit who gives life,” Jesus said. “The flesh is no help at all.” (Jn 6:63)

When Ephraim (Israel, or the ten Northern tribes) worshipped Baal, he died. Death came to Israel through idolatry. This dead people did not repent but instead sinned more and more (Hos 13:1-2), which they did as living, breathing organisms. When Ephraim died, he did not die in the flesh.

Likewise with the Pharisees, who, like whitewashed tombs, knowing not the Father, were the walking dead, full of dead men’s bones (Mt 23:27). Strangers to God, they were dead.

The day Adam ate the serpent's fruit and died, he did not keel over and orphan his children. He was exiled from God's presence.

You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was recreated; it does not say that man was created again to be something different. So, why you would insist that man is a different creature now than he was in the Garden is a mystery.

"You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was
recreated; it does not say that man was created again
to be something different. So, why you would insist
that man is a different creature now than he
was in the Garden is a mystery"___Norwegen

My friend I have zero clues where you are going with this
or what you are trying to accomplish here with this line of
thought. Your words "recreated" and your phrase "different
creature" has got some idea lurking behind them and I
have no idea what the idea is that's lurking behind them.

It is impossible to read Genesis chapters 1, 2, and 3 and
not conclude that Adam and Eve were "different creatures"
after The Fall that introduced the Sin Principle and all its
consequences and ramifications for example Death.

There would have been no Death had there not been
The Fall into sin. THAT alone is enough to establish
both Adam & Eve as being "different creatures."

All you have to do is merely surface read Genesis
chapters 1, 2, and 3 to see clear solid Biblical evidence
that The Sin Principle changed Adam & Eve into
"different creatures."

What do you want to accomplish here?

Best Regards.

JAG

``

Adam and Eve were not immortal creatures in the Garden of Eden. Not only is that idea nonsensical, but it's contrary to the Scriptures.

 

[JAG]

"The world changed, then. Literally. A world in which fanged creatures eat
grass and all creatures roam the earth forever is in no way a world in which
fanged creatures eat other creatures and flesh decays. Deny it all you want,
but a belief that man and his environment were recreated is a belief that
the Bible does not teach and that really does nothing more than caricature it.

Biological death is not a death that concerned the ancient Israelites. The
arrest of all biological functions is not an idea upon which they built their
faith or their narrative.

If it is - if that is what Jesus came to restore, or redeem - then he failed."
____Norwegen

I have no idea what you're are trying to establish as true.
You seem to strongly overwork the word "recreated"
and from all I can tell you are building your view on
and around the word "recreated" -- the Bible does
not say the world was "recreated" and I have no idea
what you are trying to establish as true.

The Bible is crystal clear that , , ,
{1} God made man and the earth sin free.
{2} There was no sin before The Fall
{3} Adam and Eve chose to sin.
{4} The results of their sin was pain, disease, and death
{4} God and His Christ, will at some future point, "restore Eden"
and man and the Earth will again be sin free and all pain,
suffering, disease, and death will be eliminated.

JAG

``

Exactly. The Bible does not say that the world was recreated. It does not say that man was created to be immortal, and then created again to be mortal. Flesh did not undergo such drastic physiological alterations.

In fact, the Israelites taught the opposite, that flesh comes from dust and returns to dust. Their desire was never to live forever with nature, but to live forever with God. Death in their minds was condemnation; belief led to life.

“It is the Spirit who gives life,” Jesus said. “The flesh is no help at all.” (Jn 6:63)

When Ephraim (Israel, or the ten Northern tribes) worshipped Baal, he died. Death came to Israel through idolatry. This dead people did not repent but instead sinned more and more (Hos 13:1-2), which they did as living, breathing organisms. When Ephraim died, he did not die in the flesh.

Likewise with the Pharisees, who, like whitewashed tombs, knowing not the Father, were the walking dead, full of dead men’s bones (Mt 23:27). Strangers to God, they were dead.

The day Adam ate the serpent's fruit and died, he did not keel over and orphan his children. He was exiled from God's presence.

You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was recreated; it does not say that man was created again to be something different. So, why you would insist that man is a different creature now than he was in the Garden is a mystery.

"You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was
recreated; it does not say that man was created again
to be something different. So, why you would insist
that man is a different creature now than he
was in the Garden is a mystery"___Norwegen

My friend I have zero clues where you are going with this
or what you are trying to accomplish here with this line of
thought. Your words "recreated" and your phrase "different
creature" has got some idea lurking behind them and I
have no idea what the idea is that's lurking behind them.

It is impossible to read Genesis chapters 1, 2, and 3 and
not conclude that Adam and Eve were "different creatures"
after The Fall that introduced the Sin Principle and all its
consequences and ramifications for example Death.

There would have been no Death had there not been
The Fall into sin. THAT alone is enough to establish
both Adam & Eve as being "different creatures."

All you have to do is merely surface read Genesis
chapters 1, 2, and 3 to see clear solid Biblical evidence
that The Sin Principle changed Adam & Eve into
"different creatures."

What do you want to accomplish here?

Best Regards.

JAG

``

Adam and Eve were not immortal creatures in the Garden of Eden. Not only is that idea nonsensical, but it's contrary to the Scriptures.

"Adam and Eve were not immortal creatures in the Garden of Eden. Not only is
that idea nonsensical, but it's contrary to the Scriptures."___Norwegen

"The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take
care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any
tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of
good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."___Genesis 2:15-17

On your interpretation of Genesis 2:17 it would read like this:

~ ~ You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat
from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from
it you will certainly die -- but of course you are going to die anyway
whether you eat from the tree or not ~ ~

My view is that interpretation is nonsensical.
However I am willing to listen to you what you have to say and I will consider
it. Give me some solid proof that Adam & Eve would have died whether they
obeyed or disobeyed God.

Best.

JAG


``

 

[norwegen]

"The world changed, then. Literally. A world in which fanged creatures eat
grass and all creatures roam the earth forever is in no way a world in which
fanged creatures eat other creatures and flesh decays. Deny it all you want,
but a belief that man and his environment were recreated is a belief that
the Bible does not teach and that really does nothing more than caricature it.

Biological death is not a death that concerned the ancient Israelites. The
arrest of all biological functions is not an idea upon which they built their
faith or their narrative.

If it is - if that is what Jesus came to restore, or redeem - then he failed."
____Norwegen

I have no idea what you're are trying to establish as true.
You seem to strongly overwork the word "recreated"
and from all I can tell you are building your view on
and around the word "recreated" -- the Bible does
not say the world was "recreated" and I have no idea
what you are trying to establish as true.

The Bible is crystal clear that , , ,
{1} God made man and the earth sin free.
{2} There was no sin before The Fall
{3} Adam and Eve chose to sin.
{4} The results of their sin was pain, disease, and death
{4} God and His Christ, will at some future point, "restore Eden"
and man and the Earth will again be sin free and all pain,
suffering, disease, and death will be eliminated.

JAG

``

Exactly. The Bible does not say that the world was recreated. It does not say that man was created to be immortal, and then created again to be mortal. Flesh did not undergo such drastic physiological alterations.

In fact, the Israelites taught the opposite, that flesh comes from dust and returns to dust. Their desire was never to live forever with nature, but to live forever with God. Death in their minds was condemnation; belief led to life.

“It is the Spirit who gives life,” Jesus said. “The flesh is no help at all.” (Jn 6:63)

When Ephraim (Israel, or the ten Northern tribes) worshipped Baal, he died. Death came to Israel through idolatry. This dead people did not repent but instead sinned more and more (Hos 13:1-2), which they did as living, breathing organisms. When Ephraim died, he did not die in the flesh.

Likewise with the Pharisees, who, like whitewashed tombs, knowing not the Father, were the walking dead, full of dead men’s bones (Mt 23:27). Strangers to God, they were dead.

The day Adam ate the serpent's fruit and died, he did not keel over and orphan his children. He was exiled from God's presence.

You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was recreated; it does not say that man was created again to be something different. So, why you would insist that man is a different creature now than he was in the Garden is a mystery.

"You're right: the Bible does not say that the world was
recreated; it does not say that man was created again
to be something different. So, why you would insist
that man is a different creature now than he
was in the Garden is a mystery"___Norwegen

My friend I have zero clues where you are going with this
or what you are trying to accomplish here with this line of
thought. Your words "recreated" and your phrase "different
creature" has got some idea lurking behind them and I
have no idea what the idea is that's lurking behind them.

It is impossible to read Genesis chapters 1, 2, and 3 and
not conclude that Adam and Eve were "different creatures"
after The Fall that introduced the Sin Principle and all its
consequences and ramifications for example Death.

There would have been no Death had there not been
The Fall into sin. THAT alone is enough to establish
both Adam & Eve as being "different creatures."

All you have to do is merely surface read Genesis
chapters 1, 2, and 3 to see clear solid Biblical evidence
that The Sin Principle changed Adam & Eve into
"different creatures."

What do you want to accomplish here?

Best Regards.

JAG

``

Adam and Eve were not immortal creatures in the Garden of Eden. Not only is that idea nonsensical, but it's contrary to the Scriptures.

"Adam and Eve were not immortal creatures in the Garden of Eden. Not only is
that idea nonsensical, but it's contrary to the Scriptures."___Norwegen

"The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take
care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any
tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of
good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."___Genesis 2:15-17

On your interpretation of Genesis 2:17 it would read like this:

~ ~ You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat
from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from
it you will certainly die -- but of course you are going to die anyway
whether you eat from the tree or not ~ ~

My view is that interpretation is nonsensical.
However I am willing to listen to you what you have to say and I will consider
it. Give me some solid proof that Adam & Eve would have died whether they
obeyed or disobeyed God.

Best.

JAG


``

"For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Adam did not keel over and orphan his children on the day he ate the serpent's fruit. He did not die physically that day; he died in spirit. God exiled him from His presence that day.

I articulated this fairly clearly, I thought. I'm not sure why you're not getting it.