God does not dwell in buildings.. so why do Catholics talk about Christ's Presence in the Church?

[rightnow909]

Well, you kind of have to read the Old Testament or certainly those parts pertaining to the Ark of the Covenant, a "chest" that the Israelites carried with them in all their journeys. It was where God presented Himself to them, to communicate w/ them and guide them.

Then later there was a light perpetually shining in the synagogues to signify God's presence.

Now we have the Real Presence, also signified by a light always burning in the Church Christ founded.. telling eveyrone He is there

(Exodus and other early books... John 6:27-72)

 

[Concerned American]

Well, you kind of have to read the Old Testament or certainly those parts pertaining to the Ark of the Covenant, a "chest" that the Israelites carried with them in all their journeys. It was where God presented Himself to them, to communicate w/ them and guide them.

Then later there was a light perpetually shining in the synagogues to signify God's presence.

Now we have the Real Presence, also signified by a light always burning in the Church Christ founded.. telling eveyrone He is there

(Exodus and other early books... John 6:27-72)

The church is the congregation--not the building.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” Mathew 18:20
Wherever true believers gather in Jesus name, He will be there.
I have felt His presence many times in our little cowboy church

 

[rightnow909]

The church is the congregation--not the building.

i am not speaking about a building but the One who lives in it

King David wanted to build God a house and God said the same thing that Protestants say today: namely that God is... wherever He wants to be (paraphrase) and does not need a house to live in

HOWEVER

He had David build Him a house anyway (a place where the Ark of the Covenant would reside)... which was normally referred to as the Temple.. now the Church

 

[Darkwind]

The 'presence' in church or the building of the congregation refers to the concept that everyone present is of like mind and focused on the same thing at that same moment.

Have you ever been at a sporting event in which everyone around you was rooting for your team and they were winning?

It is very much like that. You could say that in the stadium, the presence of the Holy 49'ers was in the building.

 

[rightnow909]

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” Mathew 18:20
Wherever true believers gather in Jesus name, He will be there.
I have felt His presence many times in our little cowboy church

I have been in God's presence in other places than the Church also

Montana...

and etc...

 

[rightnow909]

The 'presence' in church or the building of the congregation refers to the concept that everyone present is of like mind and focused on the same thing at that same moment.

Have you ever been at a sporting event in which everyone around you was rooting for your team and they were winning?

It is very much like that. You could say that in the stadium, the presence of the Holy 49'ers was in the building.

one is secular, the other sacred...

I guess you prefer the former

 

[Darkwind]

one is secular, the other sacred...

I guess you prefer the former

No, I was simply trying to convey the closeness people feel when they are in church. To Me, that is the feeling of the "Holy Spirit" and it can be found anywhere; not just in a church.

 

[rightnow909]

No, I was simply trying to convey the closeness people feel when they are in church. To Me, that is the feeling of the "Holy Spirit" and it can be found anywhere; not just in a church.

humans not with God are against him... so its just a human spirit...

 

[Darkwind]

humans not with God are against him... so its just a human spirit...

I don't agree with that, otherwise, the people of God would shun the unGodly instead of speaking to them about the Grace God holds for us all.

The fact that we can feel this human spirit, a spirit given to us by Grace, in any endeavor is a great gift and should be embraced.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

I have been in God's presence in other places than the Church also

Montana...

and etc...

I have no doubt. God cannot be confined by anything but God.
I've always wanted to see Montana. I miss the mountains.
I lived in Alaska for 17 years & go to the Rockies whenever I can still. NM & CO are beautiful.
The Grand Canyon has Gods hands all over it

 

[occupied]

The catholic church was founded at a time when every god/goddess lived in a temple and his priests were the only way to talk to him/her. That primitive idea still echoes down the ages.

 

[DGS49]

Good Lord, no Catholics here?

Catholics believe that the consecrated host (the Communion wafer and the sacramental wine) actually becomes the body and blood of Jesus Christ through the miracle/mystery of Transubstantiation. After the Consecration (one part of the Mass), the hosts ARE Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.

On special occasions, consecrated hosts are retained in the sanctuary for special prayers and rituals. But not always.

 

[Cougarbear]

Well, you kind of have to read the Old Testament or certainly those parts pertaining to the Ark of the Covenant, a "chest" that the Israelites carried with them in all their journeys. It was where God, presented Himself to them, to communicate w/ them and guide them.

Then later there was a light perpetually shining in the synagogues to signify God's presence.

Now we have the Real Presence, also signified by a light always burning in the Church Christ founded.. telling eveyrone He is there

(Exodus and other early books... John 6:27-72)

Well, Christ did not found the Catholic Church. The Bishop of Rome hijacked the Church away from John the Revelator and threw him in prison. From there, they changed the doctrines and ordinances as they no longer had direct communication to God and the Angels. Satan tricked them for centuries and still does. Makes idols shed some water looking like tears and Ghostbusters stuff like that. He has his devils manifest themselves to people looking like one of your saints. Jesus taught to worship the Father in the name of the Son. But, Satan hates Jesus and got some Popes to worship the Father in the name of people called saints. Too bad. Idol worshiping.
Other than that, you are correct that throughout the OT and NT, God instructs His people to build Temples for inward sacred ordinances as part of the covenants we make with God. But, your church buildings are not temples. They are church buildings for common everyday worshiping. Temples were never for that.

 

[rightnow909]

I have no doubt. God cannot be confined by anything but God.
I've always wanted to see Montana. I miss the mountains.
I lived in Alaska for 17 years & go to the Rockies whenever I can still. NM & CO are beautiful.
The Grand Canyon has Gods hands all over it

yeh, Ive been all over the wester half of the US and MT sticks out as most... um... well, it just seems like God's country, literally, although I have felt HIs PResence in every state... except Utah...

LOL

I don't know... I just don't like the weird Mormon religion... but of course God is bigger than any such thing...

 

[rightnow909]

Well, Christ did not found the Catholic Church. The Bishop of Rome hijacked the Church away from John the Revelator and threw him in prison. From there, they changed the doctrines and ordinances as they no longer had direct communication to God and the Angels. Satan tricked them for centuries and still does. Makes idols shed some water looking like tears and Ghostbusters stuff like that. He has his devils manifest themselves to people looking like one of your saints. Jesus taught to worship the Father in the name of the Son. But, Satan hates Jesus and got some Popes to worship the Father in the name of people called saints. Too bad. Idol worshiping.
Other than that, you are correct that throughout the OT and NT, God instructs His people to build Temples for inward sacred ordinances as part of the covenants we make with God. But, your church buildings are not temples. They are church buildings for common everyday worshiping. Temples were never for that.

sorry but i didn't get beyond the highlighted part. I've heard it all b4... been debating nonCatholics for years... got rather tired of all that debating since the other side does NOT listen... so you know... waste o'time...

Christ did establish the Catholic Church. You just have never studied the same books as I have. Most protestants do NOT know a thing about the Old T for one... I speak of everyday protestants, that is.. not the ones with a PhD in religion or whatever..

But even those who do have such a degree.. do not see the Catholic stuff there in the OT because... well, some do. Scott Hahn once hated the Catholic Church... no, wait, he.. like all protestants hated what he THOUGHT was the Catholic Church and studied it IN-depth, more in-depth than I have, and after reading literally thousands of books (I think it was 1000s anyhow), he realized ... just what i said... that he hated what he THOUGHT was Catholicism.. and he converted to the RCC

that's not to say there aren't serious problems in the Church.. but that is nothing big... I mean.. the devil IS going to attack the True Church, and as you know, i am sure... just about everyone hates the Catholic Church. (Satan is no dummy...) Sometimes I "hate it" as well, believe it or not... but not for any of the reasons protestants do.. (long story... stories). What i hate about the Church is that it (or a lot of the Churches anyhow) are not Catholic enough...

 

[Cougarbear]

sorry but i didn't get beyond the highlighted part. I've heard it all b4... been debating nonCatholics for years... got rather tired of all that debating since the other side does NOT listen... so you know... waste o'time...

Christ did establish the Catholic Church. You just have never studied the same books as I have. Most protestants do NOT know a thing about the Old T for one... I speak of everyday protestants, that is.. not the ones with a PhD in religion or whatever..

But even those who do have such a degree.. do not see the Catholic stuff there in the OT because... well, some do. Scott Hahn once hated the Catholic Church... no, wait, he.. like all protestants hated what he THOUGHT was the Catholic Church and studied it IN-depth, more in-depth than I have, and after reading literally thousands of books (I think it was 1000s anyhow), he realized ... just what i said... that he hated what he THOUGHT was Catholicism.. and he converted to the RCC

that's not to say there aren't serious problems in the Church.. but that is nothing big... I mean.. the devil IS going to attack the True Church, and as you know, i am sure... just about everyone hates the Catholic Church. (Satan is no dummy...) Sometimes I "hate it" as well, believe it or not... but not for any of the reasons protestants do.. (long story... stories). What i hate about the Church is that it (or a lot of the Churches anyhow) are not Catholic enough...

That was a bunch of mumbling. Jesus Christ founded his own Church on the foundation of apostles and prophets. The Catholic Church has no apostles and prophets. False Church then. And, if you did actually study the OT, NT, you would see the structure would be basically the same after it developed almost exactly as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Prophet leading the way with his words from God. Moses had 12 leaders from each tribe. Moses also had a quorum of the 70 along with teachers, priests...Jesus established the same in His days on the earth. Revelation through prophets and apostles, the quorum of the 70 and teachers, priests (Melchizedek and Aaronic (levites) Orders of the Priesthood)....The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is founded on Prophets, apostles (Quorum of the 12 Apostles, Quorum of the 70's, teachers, priests (Melchizedek, Aaron), bishops.....The Catholic Church has a Pope, Cardinals, Arch Bishops, bishops, fathers, priests (No Melchizedek or Aaronic Orders. Strange orders like Jesuits, Franciscans......) Definitely not the same organized Church. Looks like what happens during apostasies. Changed the everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ starting with changes at the top.

 

[rightnow909]

That was a bunch of mumbling. Jesus Christ founded his own Church on the foundation of apostles and prophets. The Catholic Church has no apostles and prophets. False Church then. And, if you did actually study the OT, NT, you would see the structure would be basically the same after it developed almost exactly as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Prophet leading the way with his words from God. Moses had 12 leaders from each tribe. Moses also had a quorum of the 70 along with teachers, priests...Jesus established the same in His days on the earth. Revelation through prophets and apostles, the quorum of the 70 and teachers, priests (Melchizedek and Aaronic (levites) Orders of the Priesthood)....The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is founded on Prophets, apostles (Quorum of the 12 Apostles, Quorum of the 70's, teachers, priests (Melchizedek, Aaron), bishops.....The Catholic Church has a Pope, Cardinals, Arch Bishops, bishops, fathers, priests (No Melchizedek or Aaronic Orders. Strange orders like Jesuits, Franciscans......) Definitely not the same organized Church. Looks like what happens during apostasies. Changed the everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ starting with changes at the top.

you are free to believe what you want... If you believe your own thoughts and opinions over those of Jesus Christ, however, you will not make it to Heaven

 

[Cougarbear]

you are free to believe what you want... If you believe your own thoughts and opinions over those of Jesus Christ, however, you will not make it to Heaven

Seems like if you follow Popes, Cardinals, Arch Bishops, Priests of strange orders other than in the New Testament, you are not following Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ established his Church with Prophets, Apostles, 70's, evangelists, priests after the order of Melchizedek and Aaron. Looks like I'm following Jesus Christ then. Whether I'll make it to heaven has to do with me and keeping the commandments. Not you. Are you the Judge of us all? See, even though you are following a great and abominable church, the Catholics I know are all great people and I know they will be in Heaven. But, which Mansion? Celestial, Terrestrial or Telestial? First Corinthians chapter 15.

 

[rightnow909]

Seems like if you follow Popes, Cardinals, Arch Bishops, Priests of strange orders other than in the New Testament, you are not following Jesus Christ.

Prove I am not following Jesus Christ...

no, all u have is your opinion. I have THE CHURCH Christ founded...

tough match but have at it