Go ahead, pass concealed carry, see what happens...

[WinterBorn]

Do you know what the requirements are to get a CC permit and the hundreds of rules you have to follow or the circumstances in which you can draw your gun or even shoot it. I didn't think so.

All I know is 30,000 gun deaths a year versus about 200 of those being justified in any way

It's not people with permits doing the killing. Can't you get that through your thick skull?

Tell me, that woman who got shot by her 2 year old son, she had a permit, yes?

The Police chief who shot the kid in the movies, had a permit, yes?

George Zimmerman, had a permit, yes?

And besides, the other murderers also carried hidden guns too. They simply skipped the process of getting a permit, but did the same things having a permit would have let them do legally: carry guns everywhere

Zimmerman was self defense.

The dubious definition of self defence in America is more reason why self defence shouldn't be a valid reason to own guns

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

 

[Darkwind]

Why do nations with concealed carry (hint, only the USA has gone that mad) have on average more gun crime than those who don't

Do you have a link showing the states with more concealed carry permits have more gun violence?

10 Pro-Gun Myths Shot Down Mother Jones

Your source posts no official sources to their allegations. But lets take number 5 as an example.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

Since the official number of murders in the USA for 2012 (the last year of known good compiled data) is a tick less than 9.000, and there are over 2 million defensive gun uses each year, the 7 assaults or murders to one defensive gun use is flat out wrong, or an intentional lie. You are free to chose which, but what it is not is truthful.

Looking at the mother jones website, I find that they are under the umbrella of a foundation called, Foundation for National Progress. This is a left-leaning non-profit based in San Francisco.

In short, your source is a partisan hack site that promotes a progressive agenda. This renders the information there as biased in the extreme at a minimum. Pick a better source to support your argument.

 

[RayneWooney]

All I know is 30,000 gun deaths a year versus about 200 of those being justified in any way

It's not people with permits doing the killing. Can't you get that through your thick skull?

Tell me, that woman who got shot by her 2 year old son, she had a permit, yes?

The Police chief who shot the kid in the movies, had a permit, yes?

George Zimmerman, had a permit, yes?

And besides, the other murderers also carried hidden guns too. They simply skipped the process of getting a permit, but did the same things having a permit would have let them do legally: carry guns everywhere

Zimmerman was self defense.

The dubious definition of self defence in America is more reason why self defence shouldn't be a valid reason to own guns

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

 

[RayneWooney]

Why do nations with concealed carry (hint, only the USA has gone that mad) have on average more gun crime than those who don't

Do you have a link showing the states with more concealed carry permits have more gun violence?

10 Pro-Gun Myths Shot Down Mother Jones

Your source posts no official sources to their allegations. But lets take number 5 as an example.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

Since the official number of murders in the USA for 2012 (the last year of known good compiled data) is a tick less than 9.000, and there are over 2 million defensive gun uses each year, the 7 assaults or murders to one defensive gun use is flat out wrong, or an intentional lie. You are free to chose which, but what it is not is truthful.

Looking at the mother jones website, I find that they are under the umbrella of a foundation called, Foundation for National Progress. This is a left-leaning non-profit based in San Francisco.

In short, your source is a partisan hack site that promotes a progressive agenda. This renders the information there as biased in the extreme at a minimum. Pick a better source to support your argument.

Classic Murica'. If I don't agree with it, it isnt valid

 

[Darkwind]

Not in the least. I at least made the effort to learn the truth about your source. Were you even aware of who founded of Mother Jones?

The magazine was named after Mary Harris Jones, known as Mother Jones, an Irish-American trade union activist, opponent of child labor.[4]

A cause against child labor is very laudable. However, a trade union activist is hardly what I would call "neutral sourcing"

 

[WinterBorn]

It's not people with permits doing the killing. Can't you get that through your thick skull?

Tell me, that woman who got shot by her 2 year old son, she had a permit, yes?

The Police chief who shot the kid in the movies, had a permit, yes?

George Zimmerman, had a permit, yes?

And besides, the other murderers also carried hidden guns too. They simply skipped the process of getting a permit, but did the same things having a permit would have let them do legally: carry guns everywhere

Zimmerman was self defense.

The dubious definition of self defence in America is more reason why self defence shouldn't be a valid reason to own guns

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

So you disagree with the jury's decision. Funny how that somehow invalidates all self defense uses.

But then, you allowed that 200+ incidents were, in fact, self defense and resulted in the deaths of criminals.

Try and keep your story straight.

 

[RayneWooney]

Not in the least. I at least made the effort to learn the truth about your source. Were you even aware of who founded of Mother Jones?

The magazine was named after Mary Harris Jones, known as Mother Jones, an Irish-American trade union activist, opponent of child labor.[4]

A cause against child labor is very laudable. However, a trade union activist is hardly what I would call "neutral sourcing"

Well then by those standard the NRA has zero fucking credibility

 

[RayneWooney]

Tell me, that woman who got shot by her 2 year old son, she had a permit, yes?

The Police chief who shot the kid in the movies, had a permit, yes?

George Zimmerman, had a permit, yes?

And besides, the other murderers also carried hidden guns too. They simply skipped the process of getting a permit, but did the same things having a permit would have let them do legally: carry guns everywhere

Zimmerman was self defense.

The dubious definition of self defence in America is more reason why self defence shouldn't be a valid reason to own guns

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

So you disagree with the jury's decision. Funny how that somehow invalidates all self defense uses.

But then, you allowed that 200+ incidents were, in fact, self defense and resulted in the deaths of criminals.

Try and keep your story straight.

Only 200 shootings in the usa MIGHT HAVE BEEN justified. The number that actually are justified is probably enough to count on one hand

 

[WinterBorn]

Why do nations with concealed carry (hint, only the USA has gone that mad) have on average more gun crime than those who don't

Do you have a link showing the states with more concealed carry permits have more gun violence?

10 Pro-Gun Myths Shot Down Mother Jones

Your source posts no official sources to their allegations. But lets take number 5 as an example.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

Since the official number of murders in the USA for 2012 (the last year of known good compiled data) is a tick less than 9.000, and there are over 2 million defensive gun uses each year, the 7 assaults or murders to one defensive gun use is flat out wrong, or an intentional lie. You are free to chose which, but what it is not is truthful.

Looking at the mother jones website, I find that they are under the umbrella of a foundation called, Foundation for National Progress. This is a left-leaning non-profit based in San Francisco.

In short, your source is a partisan hack site that promotes a progressive agenda. This renders the information there as biased in the extreme at a minimum. Pick a better source to support your argument.

Classic Murica'. If I don't agree with it, it isnt valid

Really? Is that what he said? Or did he question the source with valid reasons?

And isn't "If I don't agree with it it isn't valid" exactly what you are doing? You spout bullshit like claims that the states with the most concealed weapons permits have the most gun murders, but cannot produce a single link showing that to be true. Your hypocrisy is quite evident, JoeyB.

 

[Hossfly]

It's not people with permits doing the killing. Can't you get that through your thick skull?

Tell me, that woman who got shot by her 2 year old son, she had a permit, yes?

The Police chief who shot the kid in the movies, had a permit, yes?

George Zimmerman, had a permit, yes?

And besides, the other murderers also carried hidden guns too. They simply skipped the process of getting a permit, but did the same things having a permit would have let them do legally: carry guns everywhere

Zimmerman was self defense.

The dubious definition of self defence in America is more reason why self defence shouldn't be a valid reason to own guns

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

???

 

[Darkwind]

Not in the least. I at least made the effort to learn the truth about your source. Were you even aware of who founded of Mother Jones?

The magazine was named after Mary Harris Jones, known as Mother Jones, an Irish-American trade union activist, opponent of child labor.[4]

A cause against child labor is very laudable. However, a trade union activist is hardly what I would call "neutral sourcing"

Well then by those standard the NRA has zero fucking credibility

So, you have seen Me quote the NRA to make a point? If so, point that out to Me as I must have been sleep typing.

 

[RayneWooney]

Not in the least. I at least made the effort to learn the truth about your source. Were you even aware of who founded of Mother Jones?

The magazine was named after Mary Harris Jones, known as Mother Jones, an Irish-American trade union activist, opponent of child labor.[4]

A cause against child labor is very laudable. However, a trade union activist is hardly what I would call "neutral sourcing"

Well then by those standard the NRA has zero fucking credibility

So, you have seen Me quote the NRA to make a point? If so, point that out to Me as I must have been sleep typing.

No but you fucking repeat all the NRA wingnut talking points

 

[WinterBorn]

Zimmerman was self defense.

The dubious definition of self defence in America is more reason why self defence shouldn't be a valid reason to own guns

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

So you disagree with the jury's decision. Funny how that somehow invalidates all self defense uses.

But then, you allowed that 200+ incidents were, in fact, self defense and resulted in the deaths of criminals.

Try and keep your story straight.

Only 200 shootings in the usa MIGHT HAVE BEEN justified. The number that actually are justified is probably enough to count on one hand

Only 200 gun murders were justified. You have not shown those to be the only gun usages to be termed stopping a crime. In fact, that statistic, combined with the real numbers of crimes prevented with private guns, shows gun owners to be exercising restraint when stopping crimes, since it happens hundreds of thousands of times with only 200 deaths.

 

[RayneWooney]

The dubious definition of self defence in America is more reason why self defence shouldn't be a valid reason to own guns

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

So you disagree with the jury's decision. Funny how that somehow invalidates all self defense uses.

But then, you allowed that 200+ incidents were, in fact, self defense and resulted in the deaths of criminals.

Try and keep your story straight.

Only 200 shootings in the usa MIGHT HAVE BEEN justified. The number that actually are justified is probably enough to count on one hand

Only 200 gun murders were justified. You have not shown those to be the only gun usages to be termed stopping a crime. In fact, that statistic, combined with the real numbers of crimes prevented with private guns, shows gun owners to be exercising restraint when stopping crimes, since it happens hundreds of thousands of times with only 200 deaths.

You make no fucking sense.

200 self defence incidents is FAR less than 30,000 other deaths

 

[WinterBorn]

Not in the least. I at least made the effort to learn the truth about your source. Were you even aware of who founded of Mother Jones?

The magazine was named after Mary Harris Jones, known as Mother Jones, an Irish-American trade union activist, opponent of child labor.[4]

A cause against child labor is very laudable. However, a trade union activist is hardly what I would call "neutral sourcing"

Well then by those standard the NRA has zero fucking credibility

So, you have seen Me quote the NRA to make a point? If so, point that out to Me as I must have been sleep typing.

No but you fucking repeat all the NRA wingnut talking points

JoeyB, if you want to make a sockpuppet, at least try and argue different points.

I have not seen Darkwind quote the NRA yet. In fact, neither have I.

But you made a claim as if it were fact, and have yet to provide a single link to show one iota of evidence.

 

[Darkwind]

Not in the least. I at least made the effort to learn the truth about your source. Were you even aware of who founded of Mother Jones?

The magazine was named after Mary Harris Jones, known as Mother Jones, an Irish-American trade union activist, opponent of child labor.[4]

A cause against child labor is very laudable. However, a trade union activist is hardly what I would call "neutral sourcing"

Well then by those standard the NRA has zero fucking credibility

So, you have seen Me quote the NRA to make a point? If so, point that out to Me as I must have been sleep typing.

No but you fucking repeat all the NRA wingnut talking points

No I don't. I post My opinion (opinions I have held for over 40 years and backed by research of government posted statistics, not blogs) and have had this conversation so many times with gun grabbers that I likely could post it in My sleep.

Here is a suggestion for you. Stop posting debunked talking points and post something original and I can guarantee that My responses will change to fit any new or re-purposed information you can provide. Otherwise, I follow the engineering principle of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" meaning debunking your statements is routine and effective.

 

[WinterBorn]

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

So you disagree with the jury's decision. Funny how that somehow invalidates all self defense uses.

But then, you allowed that 200+ incidents were, in fact, self defense and resulted in the deaths of criminals.

Try and keep your story straight.

Only 200 shootings in the usa MIGHT HAVE BEEN justified. The number that actually are justified is probably enough to count on one hand

Only 200 gun murders were justified. You have not shown those to be the only gun usages to be termed stopping a crime. In fact, that statistic, combined with the real numbers of crimes prevented with private guns, shows gun owners to be exercising restraint when stopping crimes, since it happens hundreds of thousands of times with only 200 deaths.

You make no fucking sense.

200 self defence incidents is FAR less than 30,000 other deaths

I make perfect sense. 200 self defense killings is far less than the 100k (at least) incidents in which a privately owned gun stopped a crime. That means very few gun owners are shooting to kill when they stop a crime.

 

[RayneWooney]

Not in the least. I at least made the effort to learn the truth about your source. Were you even aware of who founded of Mother Jones?

The magazine was named after Mary Harris Jones, known as Mother Jones, an Irish-American trade union activist, opponent of child labor.[4]

A cause against child labor is very laudable. However, a trade union activist is hardly what I would call "neutral sourcing"

Well then by those standard the NRA has zero fucking credibility

So, you have seen Me quote the NRA to make a point? If so, point that out to Me as I must have been sleep typing.

No but you fucking repeat all the NRA wingnut talking points

No I don't. I post My opinion (opinions I have held for over 40 years and backed by research of government posted statistics, not blogs) and have had this conversation so many times with gun grabbers that I likely could post it in My sleep.

Here is a suggestion for you. Stop posting debunked talking points and post something original and I can guarantee that My responses will change to fit any new or re-purposed information you can provide. Otherwise, I follow the engineering principle of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" meaning debunking your statements is routine and effective.

30,000 gun deaths a year seems pretty "broke" to me.

 

[RayneWooney]

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

So you disagree with the jury's decision. Funny how that somehow invalidates all self defense uses.

But then, you allowed that 200+ incidents were, in fact, self defense and resulted in the deaths of criminals.

Try and keep your story straight.

Only 200 shootings in the usa MIGHT HAVE BEEN justified. The number that actually are justified is probably enough to count on one hand

Only 200 gun murders were justified. You have not shown those to be the only gun usages to be termed stopping a crime. In fact, that statistic, combined with the real numbers of crimes prevented with private guns, shows gun owners to be exercising restraint when stopping crimes, since it happens hundreds of thousands of times with only 200 deaths.

You make no fucking sense.

200 self defence incidents is FAR less than 30,000 other deaths

I make perfect sense. 200 self defense killings is far less than the 100k (at least) incidents in which a privately owned gun stopped a crime. That means very few gun owners are shooting to kill when they stop a crime.

where the fuck do you get your 100k source from? The stats clearly say there are only 200 defensive uses of guns a year

 

[WinterBorn]

What is dubious about our definition of self defense?

How a white man can chase a black teenager, tackle him to the floor, and shoot him in the head while he's got his hands up, and be acquitted for self defence

So you disagree with the jury's decision. Funny how that somehow invalidates all self defense uses.

But then, you allowed that 200+ incidents were, in fact, self defense and resulted in the deaths of criminals.

Try and keep your story straight.

Only 200 shootings in the usa MIGHT HAVE BEEN justified. The number that actually are justified is probably enough to count on one hand

Only 200 gun murders were justified. You have not shown those to be the only gun usages to be termed stopping a crime. In fact, that statistic, combined with the real numbers of crimes prevented with private guns, shows gun owners to be exercising restraint when stopping crimes, since it happens hundreds of thousands of times with only 200 deaths.

You make no fucking sense.

200 self defence incidents is FAR less than 30,000 other deaths

And of the 30,000 gun deaths, 2/3 of them were self-inflicted. (actually a bit more than 2/3)

And out of 65 million legal gun owners, that is still less than 1/10th of 1 percent.